BIL charged indecent images. DH's favourite person

[LotinLife]

Need some advice on how to 1. Save our marriage 2. Whilst protecting our young children 3. Living with the fact that you're the only one that suspects.

So, BIL, who I've known for 15+ years and has always been a close relative. Knew him since he was a young teenager. My DH (older by 9+ years) loves him and has quoted on a number of occasions that he is his favourite person and has unconditional love for him. DH of course loves his children and they too are his favourite persons. Anyway, DH and BIL relationship is extremely close and has been commented on how close they are by all members of family and friends.

However, in the past year we were contacted by SS that he was charged with possession of indecent images and that he was to have no unsupervised visits with our children. Of course that came as a shock. SS apologised that in fact they should've contacted us earlier.
BIL hadn't told us anything.

But being a family we wanted to hear both sides (SS didn't go into the details). BIL broke down to DH via call and said that there was a couple of files to believed were found and he had no awareness of them because he had a large amount of neutral pornography all together. Now at the time I accepted this answer, if you had a couple of images out of thousands you could be innocent of not knowing they were there. We gave him the benefit of the doubt. we also understood why he didn't tell us and believe he was working up the courage to do so. I've know him since he was younger so I didn't suspect anything and I'll admit his is he abit of coward especially about tarnishing the image my DH has of him. We continue to back him up and allowed supervised visits.

Until the court charges were brought to light and the extent of the images. This was a year later. A couple of images (BIL said) turned into hundreds (plural) , all different categorises. He didn't me and my DH this was released but it was my FIL who said to us off handed. I read them and my heart fell. I also had questions, what does inaccessible mean etc? So those hundreds of images were inaccessible but a couple weren't and so I did a quick search and took the first answer that inaccessible meant the accused didn't have access to them... Which in our eyes matched the original story: that BIL didn't know they were there and how they got there. Again we believed him yet annoyed again he didn't inform us (so that we as a family could prepare to protect him).....
A month past since that revelation and I felt things didn't start to add up anymore.
2 files is not closer to a thousand files... Does inaccessible really mean that? There was no mention about malicious software to create those images out of thin air.... Surely the investigation team are the best to consider search results and parameters? How does someone even come across these?!
That's when I looked again at what inaccessible means and from definition it's simply that they were deleted or moved... But had left an imprint on the device, which the team can see what the file was and recover it. So unfortunately I dont know for sure if they were viewed before or simply deleted because they were mass deleted..... But again, that does not (in my opinion) equate to the original story.

I have now my suspicions. I worry for my children. I feel BIL, being the baby of the family, is grooming them all and that he could in fact groom my children when he is able (when his sentence is up/lifted).

My DH, I love him, but I have strong belief he will never believe my suspicions and quite frankly believe BIL is no threat.

I'm stuck in the position that it really is me against his family and he'll choose his family.

I've accepted that I may never convince him but then how can I ensure that BIL is not able to be a threat? If I divorce can I demand full custody to ensure they can not see BIL without supervision? Would that be guaranteed? Or should I maintain the marriage (which honestly was fine before this massive upheaval) but be that always vigilant hovering mother and manipulate events so that BIL is never alone with the children without offend DH. I know I would like to have the cut all ties off, but am I doing that to spite my face or, although more stressful and long term, be the one in control... Keep your friends close keep your enemies closer phrase comes to mind.

Still awaiting on BIL final sentence but if he's still allowed supervised visits am I able to anonymously ask SS to apply stricter rules without DH knowing so I can at least not have to start this vigilante/passive aggressive action to block BIL interaction immediately?

Sorry, OP, I meant that is what you say to your husband, not what I was saying to you.

He wouldn't let a known random nonce get close to your kids and the only difference is that this one isn't a random.

@WinniesHunny

Sorry, OP, I meant that is what you say to your husband, not what I was saying to you.

He wouldn't let a known random nonce get close to your kids and the only difference is that this one isn't a random.

Heh, understood

I’ve NC for this.

We have a relative (on DH side of the family) who was cautioned for indecent images - I don’t know the details.

Without any prompting from me DH said ‘he will never be alone with our children. EVER.’

Your DH needs to be one very clear about the extent of the offending.

The CPS wouldn’t prosecute without significant evidence - BIL is significantly minimising.

@frazzledasarock

I would honestly get legal advice and find out if you would be able to get sole custody with only supervised contact for your H until your DC are old enough to be safe from their uncle.

Then decide your next step.

I’d refuse to allow BIL any contact at all, and tell your children in an age appropriate way to stay away from him.

I really wouldn’t give a shit about either BIL’s feeling a or H’s feelings when it comes to the safety of my young children.

I agree with this. get legal advice from a family lawyer who also works in child protection. They can tell you everything and can give you decent proper advice based on experience and the law. My only inout other than this is that you really need to not mess around being pulled into all directions by any sense of loyalty. Or you may well be viewed to be not safeguarding your children and then you are in all sorts of deep shit. Please go speak to a professional. There is no reason why anyone- least of all your DH needs to know. But you need proper advice.

Please don't let your children to have access to him.
Why was his computer being viewed by the police? Think about it - why were they looking at it? Please believe social services

I would absolutely stop all contact, regardless of DHs feelings on this. Even supervised, you're sending a very clear message to your children that this man is in your 'circle', a trusted adult - if I found out as an adult that my parents knowingly allowed this I would massively judge them. Maybe ask your DH what his 'future DC' will think of him if he continues to support your BIL? When they find out in time that lovely uncle joe spent his leisure time watching children being raped?

I would also prepare myself for repercussions after he has been to court. Often these cases are reported on social media - if you live in a small community you could find your DC being ostracised if other parents recognise him as someone who regularly visits your home.

Your DH should be protecting HIS children. Why should BIL have supervised visits to YOUR children? He's not their father. If DH wishes to maintain his relationship with his brother he will have to do it away from your home and your children.
Child porn images do not arrive on someone's device by accident. You have to go looking for them. I imagine most decent people wouldn't even know where to look (I certainly wouldn't!!)

Sorry OP, I would be out of that door like a rat up a drainpipe, I cannot imagine having a DH who would allow ANYONE near his children knowing that that person will look at those small children with sexual longing, an absolute and utter deal breaker for me, and I would think a pp is quite right, you will risk losing your children if SS believe that you as parents are not taking this very seriously indeed and putting your children at risk, btw, I would love to take a poll and find out just how many of us have downloaded pictures of child abuse 'by mistake'? I have been using the the internet for bloody years and never 'stumbled' across it, pretty sure you have to go looking for it!

Oh and in the meantime keep your children away form BIL. If your DH can't do that then leave temporarily for now and keep your children away from DH as well unless you can be sure he takes the concerns seriously. And I mean really sure, not just hopefully and 'head in the sand' sure.

You need to be firm on this. I would obviously not let my children see a convicted paedophile even supervised. I would not continue a relationship with someone who supports a paedophile. Those children on the photos are real children. How can an adult forgive someone who seeks out these pictures. Unforgivable.

HI OP. I work in this field - I have researched many cases like this. If you want to DM me I can point you to some articles that touch on cases like yours.

This is a huge, huge issue in the UK - nearly 900 men a month are arrested for online child sex abuse crimes. It is growing all the time as a crime.

The liklihood I'm afraid is that your BIL has been lying to you - the police would not have charged him unless he had been deliberately looking for/ at these images. Most men who are charged have thousands of images but tell their partners it was a handful.

It is linked to porn addiction - many men seek out 'harder, harder' images - more extreme - to fuel their addiction - and find they are addicted to watching children.

I can speak now personally - you should treat this man as a potential risk to your children but that does not mean you can't 'forgive' and 'have compassion for him. The two things are separate.

Have you contacted the Lucy Faithful Foundation? Or the Stop it Now helpline - they specialise in supporting families of offenders.

Look up the work of criminologist Rachel Armitage - she works with families of offenders in cases like this.

Your BIL as I said is probably lying heavily - that is the standard pattern in these cases. DM me if you want I'll give you more links / research to look at.

Would our dH consider counselling?
This might help give him clarity and also man's there us a neutral third party to throw light on the crazy

If your husband allows a convicted (hopefully) paedophile access to his children he might find he loses his own access to them

My DH, I love him, but I have strong belief he will never believe my suspicions and quite frankly believe BIL is no threat.

I'm stuck in the position that it really is me against his family and he'll choose his family.

OP, back up a bit. You say this, but you don't recount any actual conversations with your DH about the various stages of the revelations, the SS contact specifying supervised visits only, and the later legal case which suggests credibly that any defence of 'I accidentally downloaded some child abuse images along with adult porn' doesn't hold up.

What has your DH actually said at any stage in the proceedings? To you, not to his brother.

Have you shared with your DH directly your realisation that his 'in error' defence simply doesn't stand up, and that it's likely that he will be convicted of downloading child abuse images, and that you won't have a convicted paedophile around your children?

What has your husband actually said? Like has he actually said that he will have hid brother nabysit the kids and that's final. Or is there a lot of assumptions here? Im also uncertain of the timeline if husband is still in shock and processing and if he has had any counseling?

@Rewis

What has your husband actually said? Like has he actually said that he will have hid brother nabysit the kids and that's final. Or is there a lot of assumptions here? Im also uncertain of the timeline if husband is still in shock and processing and if he has had any counseling?

Yes, exactly this, which you said more succinctly than me.

I work with sex offenders. Barely any men plead not guilty to these kind of offences and stand trial. Because they are guilty and know they will be convicted!
The explanations are usually implausible, 'stumbled across it', 'no sexual interest in children', 'not aroused by it' blah blah blah. Complete bullshit basically. I would not be able to be in the same room as a family member who had done this and I would never ever allow them any contact, supervised or otherwise, with my children. It's my job to work with them, which is fine, but I have no interest in being friends/ socialising with someone known to me who has done this.

Op

Every minute that passes with you on this thread
Is a minute that I would be using in your shoes to plan the divorce of my husband

This will not be a popular view but I tell you as my opinion - it is natural your husband wants to support and forgive his brother and I think it is healthy to allow space for that. That is a separate issue to whether your brother in law poses a risk to children.

This is incredibly traumatic for the family of the offender - and in that I include your husband. He may need time to come to terms with the horrific shock of learning what his brother has done.

it is very easy on mumsnet for people to talk about you leaving your husband to prtoect your children from your husband - that is just an easy thing to say but in reality you can allow your husband time to come to terms with what has happened - while protecting your children.

You have to put your children first - but you can do so without demonising your BIL or your brother who may need time to accept what has happened.

Why was his computer even being looked at?

The police don't seize a computer out of the blue.

You don't have 'suspicions' you have 'facts'. Hard truths. You have written this post as thought it is all a bit ambiguous. It doesn't seem to be at all.

Your BIL had thousands of indecent images of children on his computer. SS have warned you to keep him away from your children.

The police want to prosecute.
The CPS agree that there is enough evidence for him to go to court.

These are facts and you and your DH have to decide, as a couple, what that means going forward for your children. In all likelihood he will be legally prevented from unsupervised contact with your DC but grooming can happen in plain sight, so in your shoes, I would want NO contact. If your DH is going to try and down play the seriousness and do the 'Oh he is harmless' bullshit and put your DC at risk, then you will have to take legal steps to safeguard them. ONly your DH - by his actions - can decide what this means for your marriage.

I am so sorry this has happened to you. When sex offenders make a choice to abuse (and consumption of filmed/photographed abuse it also abuse) they harm the victims of the sexual abuse but also so many other people in ripples of harm - people like you and your children.

You now have to navigate this relationship and keep your children safe. You must always always keep their safety above any discomfort you will cause your husband by being firm on this.

I sadly know from experience how nonces will downplay what they have done. I too got a call from SS once to explain someone close to the family was a risk to children and should not be allowed contact with mine. It was a shock and what the nonce said was they had been found guilty of touching a child but it was all a misunderstanding as they were trying to apply medicine to a step child who had a rash. They said there were images the police found but nothing to do with that and it was mainly normal porn but a few of young women who turned out to be younger than they thought. Sorry to say it was bullshit. He was found guilty of sexually assaulting 2 girls both aged under 10 and hundreds of images across multiple categories of severity. Be prepared for worse things to come out down the line.

If your husband will still choose this nonce over your children you need to think carefully about how you can keep them safe. And if you divorce will he go for joint custody or unsupervised contact? If he does he will likely get at least some overnights as your husband has done nothing wrong and there is no way to prove he would allow the BIL unsupervised access to the kids so you may be faced with the option of a divorce making your kids MORE unsafe rather than less.

I was more asking once the sentence was up or lifted if I can still apply "no access" rules

I may be wrong but I thought if someone was required to sign the sex offenders register as an adult they were on it for life.... so the rules will apply until your kids are 18+ and make their own decisions....

www.lucyfaithfull.org.uk/

I can't imagine SS ever lifting the supervised contact only rule. It sounds like he's been found guilty, so there is no way SS would ever suggest he's safe around children. And obviously you can't go against what SS have said because they have the power to remove your children from your care if they believe you're endangering them.

I think I'd ask questions like "do you have so much faith in your brother who has been found guilty by a jury to put your children in a situation with a convicted paedophile?" "Do you have so much faith in your brother having been wrongly convicted that you'll break our family up just so your brother can have unsupervised access to your kids? Which he never will because if you ever did allow him unsupervised access to our children then myself and social services will have to make it so you can only have supervised access. Do you have so much faith in him that you're willing to sacrifice your relationship with your children?"

The man is a paedophile. You know it as much ad you don't want to. He deleted the pictures. He's been looking at, probably masturbating to pictures/videos of children being abused. This is no. Negotiable and your DHs love for his brother should not put his children at risk.