BIL charged indecent images. DH's favourite person

[LotinLife]

Need some advice on how to 1. Save our marriage 2. Whilst protecting our young children 3. Living with the fact that you're the only one that suspects.

So, BIL, who I've known for 15+ years and has always been a close relative. Knew him since he was a young teenager. My DH (older by 9+ years) loves him and has quoted on a number of occasions that he is his favourite person and has unconditional love for him. DH of course loves his children and they too are his favourite persons. Anyway, DH and BIL relationship is extremely close and has been commented on how close they are by all members of family and friends.

However, in the past year we were contacted by SS that he was charged with possession of indecent images and that he was to have no unsupervised visits with our children. Of course that came as a shock. SS apologised that in fact they should've contacted us earlier.
BIL hadn't told us anything.

But being a family we wanted to hear both sides (SS didn't go into the details). BIL broke down to DH via call and said that there was a couple of files to believed were found and he had no awareness of them because he had a large amount of neutral pornography all together. Now at the time I accepted this answer, if you had a couple of images out of thousands you could be innocent of not knowing they were there. We gave him the benefit of the doubt. we also understood why he didn't tell us and believe he was working up the courage to do so. I've know him since he was younger so I didn't suspect anything and I'll admit his is he abit of coward especially about tarnishing the image my DH has of him. We continue to back him up and allowed supervised visits.

Until the court charges were brought to light and the extent of the images. This was a year later. A couple of images (BIL said) turned into hundreds (plural) , all different categorises. He didn't me and my DH this was released but it was my FIL who said to us off handed. I read them and my heart fell. I also had questions, what does inaccessible mean etc? So those hundreds of images were inaccessible but a couple weren't and so I did a quick search and took the first answer that inaccessible meant the accused didn't have access to them... Which in our eyes matched the original story: that BIL didn't know they were there and how they got there. Again we believed him yet annoyed again he didn't inform us (so that we as a family could prepare to protect him).....
A month past since that revelation and I felt things didn't start to add up anymore.
2 files is not closer to a thousand files... Does inaccessible really mean that? There was no mention about malicious software to create those images out of thin air.... Surely the investigation team are the best to consider search results and parameters? How does someone even come across these?!
That's when I looked again at what inaccessible means and from definition it's simply that they were deleted or moved... But had left an imprint on the device, which the team can see what the file was and recover it. So unfortunately I dont know for sure if they were viewed before or simply deleted because they were mass deleted..... But again, that does not (in my opinion) equate to the original story.

I have now my suspicions. I worry for my children. I feel BIL, being the baby of the family, is grooming them all and that he could in fact groom my children when he is able (when his sentence is up/lifted).

My DH, I love him, but I have strong belief he will never believe my suspicions and quite frankly believe BIL is no threat.

I'm stuck in the position that it really is me against his family and he'll choose his family.

I've accepted that I may never convince him but then how can I ensure that BIL is not able to be a threat? If I divorce can I demand full custody to ensure they can not see BIL without supervision? Would that be guaranteed? Or should I maintain the marriage (which honestly was fine before this massive upheaval) but be that always vigilant hovering mother and manipulate events so that BIL is never alone with the children without offend DH. I know I would like to have the cut all ties off, but am I doing that to spite my face or, although more stressful and long term, be the one in control... Keep your friends close keep your enemies closer phrase comes to mind.

Still awaiting on BIL final sentence but if he's still allowed supervised visits am I able to anonymously ask SS to apply stricter rules without DH knowing so I can at least not have to start this vigilante/passive aggressive action to block BIL interaction immediately?

@EthelTheAardvark ok SS don't tell you to restrict contact for no reason... ffs it's semantics. If SS tells you a man shouldn't be around your child unsupervised than rings big red flashing alarm bells and you stop all contact.

So sorry you are in this situation, LotInLife, and that it's rippled out to affect your marriage.

Can you get a transcript of the charges laid out against him, and make your husband read it?

Hi there

My ex was sent to prison for sex offences against children. I can spot some things here that seem to be common in many cases like this.

1- You got a minimised drip feed.
He admitted he did something wrong but made it lesser and floated the possibility that it wasn't his fault and he tried to do the right thing. My ex admitted to sexual contact with a child a few years before we met, but that the teen had actually come into his room and touched him when he was asleep, he woke up to it and told her to get out and they'd say no more about it, but then years later it came back to haunt him. He kept some support for himself by saying this. It wasn't his fault and he tried to rectify it, but now he looks guilty. Then the evidence against him was released to his solicitor for the court hearing. Multiple incidents of rape and sexual assault against this girl.

2- People are devoted to him.
People with dark secrets they hope are never discovered are often utterly adored. They make themselves this way so that they've always got protection and support.

3- Loved ones are having a hard time and trying to minimise
Think of it like grief over an unexpected death or like suddenly finding out your devoted spouse was living a double life. The shock is unreal.
The pain and anger and denial- it all hits at once, along with a massive dose of guilt for betraying the relationship they have with this person for even thinking they might have done it. The man they knew and loved is gone. Was he ever really there? Because he would never have committed sex offences against children! There has to be some mistake. They themselves are good people and they would have known if someone dangerous was around their children, wouldn't they? Wouldn't they have got a vibe? There has to be some mistake. They can't love and trust someone who would do such a thing. Someone must be wrong. It is actually incredibly unusual for someone who genuinely loves another to instantly believe and cut them out of their lives. It's a process that they too must go through.

4- There's a stand-alone figure who seems to see the light.
That's you. Because you're not related to him. Because you don't have children with him. Because you don't have a thousand memories of playing with him, supporting him and vice versa. You didn't watch him grow up, nurse him through illnesses, see him fail and then succeed.... his family did though. They love him. Love doesn't get snapped off overnight. You can see and you have every right to stand firm. People will come and join you in that stance. They will. But there are people who won't stop loving him, even as they condemn his actions and acknowledge they must keep the children away from him. They will still love him. They're not bad people or stupid ones. They're his family and this will affect who they are and how they react to things forever. This is a trauma and one that will colour a lot of their responses and reactions for a long time to come.

Basically, you're right in your feelings and your reactions. BIL definitely knows what he did, knows what he had and had it on purpose. You have nowhere near the full story, but he's a danger to children, even ones he's related to. It's just not a risk even worth contemplating. And your DH and the rest of his family are processing and learning and going through stages.

And your BIL is a manipulative little fuck. Regardless of his sentence, he's a sex offender and you all know he is. How you all come to terms with that will be at different times and by different routes

@LotinLife There was a recent post about someone who's DH had agreed to extra contact time even though he had a previous commitment. There was a threat that if the OP's DH didn't look after the DC his ex would defy SS and take them to see her DM who lives with someone not allowed to be around the DC. I would take that to mean if you were to divorce DH and he then goes against SS where BIL is concerned, he would be in huge amounts of trouble and more than likely lose PR/the right to contact. I don't think you need to stay to protect the DC, I think if BIL is convicted there will be mechanisms in place to force DH to comply.

@Coldilox is right. Your DH needs to accept BIL should not be allowed to see your innocent children. I see you this is what you want. I hope that DH can understand and agree to no contact and your children can be safe with two loving parents.

@SexiestDogWalker that's a great post. The fact that despite what you went through yourself, you empathised with the effect the trauma had on his family (despite it not being at all helpful to you) shows great understanding.

I think OP's DH will be going through the same. It's going to take time for him to come to terms with the truth, but in the meantime, OP needs SS to back her up.

I had a similar situation just before the pandemic hit.

My mum split up with my Dad and she started seeing a new guy.

We met him, he seemed nice enough but she admitted to us after 8 months of seeing him that he was a convicted peadophile and had spent a year in prison for molesting girls between the ages of 8-11.

He had been in a relationship with their mother and groomed them all for 7+ years.

She believed his cock and bull story that it was all nonsense and it was the father of the girls doing it to get back at him for essentially stealing his daughters away.

Myself and my siblings threatened no contact. At the time we had two children between us.

She broke up with him and I said we could try and rebuild a relationship even though the trust had been broken.

She then sent an email to us all saying she loved him and was getting back with him. She also said that if we went no contact that would be entirely on us and our fault.

That was January 2020, I haven’t spoken to or seen her since. I now have a second child.
My sister has subsequently had a child and she sees my mum once every month or so, never at her house and always supervised.
My brother has one child still and my mum sees her once or twice a month never with the peado there.

We have all gone different forms of reduced/no contact. But I’m the only one who never has to worry about the protection of my children around him or my mum who he has clearly groomed.

Do I miss my mum, sure I do. Massively. We had a great, close relationship before all this. I used to speak to her all the time. My wife has been super supportive and my in-laws have leant in to support and assist. But it’s tough.

Every now and then I question whether I made the right call, then I read things like this or watch tv shows/news about it and I smile internally that my girls are safe.

Reference your husband, nobody wants to suspect there best mate of bad things, he may need time to come round to it, but please show him this if you see it.

The only way to protect your kids is to ensure no contact with him. The next best way is to ensure your husband only sees his brother alone and not at your house, and he doesn’t discuss the children or your family with him.

Good luck, the situation is awful, the decision are hard but there is nothing more important than your childrens safety

@Ainsleyfentonharriot absolutely agree with you. Nobody is more important than your kids. You really did do the right thing. What a shame your DM is so blind to it.

[quote TheTeenageYears]@LotinLife There was a recent post about someone who's DH had agreed to extra contact time even though he had a previous commitment. There was a threat that if the OP's DH didn't look after the DC his ex would defy SS and take them to see her DM who lives with someone not allowed to be around the DC. I would take that to mean if you were to divorce DH and he then goes against SS where BIL is concerned, he would be in huge amounts of trouble and more than likely lose PR/the right to contact. I don't think you need to stay to protect the DC, I think if BIL is convicted there will be mechanisms in place to force DH to comply.[/quote]
I disagree.
My understanding is that SS said no unsupervised contact, nit NO contact at all.

So the DH couod we’ll go and see his Dbro with the dcs and the SS to be happy with that. Except that paedophiles can abuse children right in front of other people. Being supervised isn’t always enough.

Anyone watched that documentary of a young American murderer named Paris, who, aged 13 at the time of the killing, murdered his little sister apparently to "punish" his mother? There was nothing in his previous behaviour to suggest that he could harm her or would kill anyone, but he pre-planned it, executed it and is currently in prison.

His mother, whilst as devastated as anyone would be, has chosen to support him and keep in touch with him, but the most surprising thing is that she has made sure he is in contact with his 'new' brother, born in the years since he went to jail and now aged about 6. As Paris was a juvenile at the time of the killing he is now in his twenties and will be released soon. The mother is well aware that Paris is extremely likely to come after and kill her and/or his new brother yet she is still in denial as she appears to be facilitating that scenario... She knows but she cannot believe it enough to actively prevent every possibility of it happening.

Hard to understand from the outside, but if the OP's brother is so much older that he could almost have had a parental view of this loved little brother it could explain similar cognitive dissonance. You can know something intellectually - ie "what I am hearing means my brother is a paedophile" - but to REALLY understand the implications of that means accepting it emotionally which in Paris's case his mother clearly finds impossible.

Obviously this is an extreme example but it may take some time for the family enmeshment to clear and for the DH to process and see the very real danger his brother presents. (Also, IF the BIL experienced CSA, the OP's husband might well never have even come into contact with those same abusers because of their large difference in age.)

And another thing that might explain the unusual declarations of strong brotherly love might be cultural background?

OP deserves support on this thread, she is asking for help to think carefully through all the angles and doesn't deserve to be attacked.

So the DH couod we’ll go and see his Dbro with the dcs and the SS to be happy with that. Except that paedophiles can abuse children right in front of other people. Being supervised isn’t always enough.

Completely agree.

And in addition to this, it is staggering that even if supervised contact is allowed and even if he didn't physically abuse OP's children, that her DH would allow his children to sit in front of a man (even if he's his brother) who is sexually aroused by pictures of other children being sexually abused and raped by other men.

To put your children in his eyeline, in his presence, in his orbit at all is chilling. That would trouble me hugely about her DH as I would have to assume he doesn't believe the charges.

Because if he did, and knows this man is masturbating to pictures of children being abused and raped... him letting that man even look at his children means he is not putting his children first at all.

If I as an adult found out that as a child my parents facilitated contact, even completely supervised contact with no physical contact at all, with someone they knew to be convicted of searching for / viewing / storing child sexual abuse imagery and videos I would find it very hard to forgive my parents for it. I'm not sure our relationship would recover fully from it.

Spot on post by @SexiestDogWalker.

I hardly dare ask but has it crossed your mind your DH may be involved or already have an insight into his Brother's behaviour?

@Ainsleyfentonharriot

You were very strong and made the right decision. No one should ever make compromises on the safeguarding of their children.

[quote saraclara]@SexiestDogWalker that's a great post. The fact that despite what you went through yourself, you empathised with the effect the trauma had on his family (despite it not being at all helpful to you) shows great understanding.

I think OP's DH will be going through the same. It's going to take time for him to come to terms with the truth, but in the meantime, OP needs SS to back her up.[/quote]
SS have given her a very clear instruction that would leave no doubt to anyone with their children's best interests in mind what has to be done. Their instructions should be followed as a minimum.

What more do you want from them or think they have the capacity to do? To play some little game in between the people involved so that OP's husband doesn't get offended?

They've told her he's a risk to her children and to keep him away from them. No one should need to be "support" to heed that warning.

@SexiestDogWalker your post is amazingly clear, compassionate and rational. I cannot imagine what you went through and thank you for sharing so clearly how these things can pan out.

@Ainsleyfentonharriot well done for making the sensible choice. Your mum is quite clearly deluded not to see what this man is up to. I feel sorry for your nieces/nephews that your brother and sister cannot see it. Anyone who deceived me and picked a man over my kid's safety would be out of my life. But it still must be hard.
@minniesdragg that documentary sounds awful. I wonder if the mum somehow feels she is responsible for her son's actions. How terrible for this new child. I wish someone would interveen (like the state) because I am not sure if that would be allowed in the UK.

My DB was involved in abusing my DSis and me, having been groomed by my F and others. He was also sexually abused himself (though not by my F). He is now a very damaged person as an adult and it’s hard because I feel compassion for him whilst also finding it very hard to be around him.

We have 2 DDs who we don’t allow him to have contact with. There’s never been any evidence that he grew up to be an abuser as an adult but he admits to having thoughts in his head about abusing children and it’s impossible to be absolutely certain about him. (I do have contact with him without my DDs, as I still care about him and understand that he is primarily a victim.)

My DM has never appeared to take in the fact that he joined in with the abuse and regularly guilt trips me about how lonely he is and how much he misses being in our lives. She accepts that we don’t want him to have contact with our DDs, and that my DSis has made the same decision with regards to her DC.

So I do get the reaction of the OP’s DH and his reluctance to turn his back of his brother. But he doesn’t have to do that. He can continue to support his brother and see him (even if he goes to prison).

The insistence on allowing contact with the DC, even supervised, is what I find completely unacceptable and also bizarre.

@WhyIsEverythingSoHard at the moment SS have said no unsupervised. If the BIL is convicted it's likely to be no contact at all.

If that was my brother, BIL, cousin, stepdad or whatever I couldn't bear to look at them, even if I didn't have kids. Sorry I know that's not helpful, but why is your H apparently trying to minimise what his DB has done and maintain the same relationship with his brother?

It's like being best mates with a cannibal or something. Equally vile. Your BIL by his own choice has put himself outside society, and that includes normal family relationships. Yes he probably feels lonely or scared etc. Tough. What about the abused children, even if they're on the other side of the world or something they are real children and the abuse really happened. To cater to people like your BIL.

Can't you make your DP see this?

Just be aware that unless your DH has complete buy in to the supervised access arrangement, that unsupervised access will happen. No matter how strongly he protests 100% he'll break the arrangement, they always do. It'll be a little, "Sure you take them in while I sort out the luggage" and it will graduate to leaving him to read them stories. Because it's "just a few minutes" and "I was right there". Because your DH is in denial.

Hi everyone!

I’m making my way through as many posts as possible. I appreciate all the time you have spent providing your experiences, thoughts and advice to help me in my shitty situation. There is some very passionate answers, and rightly so, this topic is extremely triggering. I had a sleep on it and although I am still concerned and I still don’t fully know what path to take, I feel at this moment in time I can take one step at a time thanks to all your tidbits of what I could/should do. I fear if I blaze in with fists of glory I will cause irreparable damage before I know fully the truth (or what I can obtain as truth) and so I will plan to go to court even if it may upset my DH, and will do everything in my power to obtain information and compare that to what my BIL is relaying to us....

Rome wasn’t built in a day, so I can’t expect to completely smash my DH trust in BIL in the same amount of time. I spoke to him again and although I didn’t yet convince him, I did get moments of.. “Oh, well, umm, I’ll need to ask that”. A small win that I can plant the seed of doubt for him to even question aspects. I plan to keep having these discussions with him frequently so that I can keep reminding him that these things aren’t going to go away, we need answers, or that things aren’t quite adding up… It may not be the immediate result I desperately want but it’s currently the most effective without seemingly being the wicked witch from the west. As I said I love my DH, so I’m not yet ready to throw the towel, but I know what may have to be done if my efforts are futile.

I would like to also add that regardless of the outcome of the charges that my relationship with my DC I will consciously be making stronger. No secrets, no judgment, just trust in me and always be vigilante even of family members. Although that may be obvious for a lot of mothers, we are as easily able to take things for granted I see that now. Before all this happened I knew as a mother that I would need to broach the subject of predators… I guess I just didn’t expect it to happen so soon. Sorry, I sound so melodramatic, understandably this is all making me take a really good hard look at life – sometimes life is a bitch… a real big bitch.

Again, thank you everyone and providing links to the Lucy Faithfull (they have been extremely helpful). I’ll try and update on the hearing.

You don't sound melodramatic. You sound sensible.

An emotional, knee jerk response would not be helpful imo.

I think you are very wise. If you can go in gently maybe yr h will accompany you to court. That would be a great outcome at this stage.

My x not a paedophile but you are absolutely correct that when children are with an x, you have less control. It's not easy. I think treading v carefully right now is safe.

and so I will plan to go to court even if it may upset my DH, and will do everything in my power to obtain information and compare that to what my BIL is relaying.

Good... that's what I wanted to hear...Thank you for the update. I can't imagine what you are going through. ((HUGS))
PS glad that you planted the seed with your husband.

You've been put in a terrible position. Your husband will eventually realise the truth about his bother and will probably feel mortified about being so blinkered. Would your dh accept absolutely zero contact for bil and dc until you've heard what's said in court? At least it would give you a little breathing space for a while.

OP, court under the guise of supporting your H, he needs to hear the truth.

I had a paedophile in my life many many years ago, obviously I didn't know the truth until the police turned up at his flat whilst I was there.

Luckily I'd been vigilant about who was ever unsupervised around DD, so she wasn't abused but the one thing that scares me is how deceptive people like this are.

However you can manipulate him into going to court to really know the extent of the truth is your key to making him truly see his brother for the the lies and the sickness that is within him.

Please try to get your H to court too. The knowledge is helpful for you- invaluably so, but the real key to protection for your children is if your H realises what the truth is.