BIL charged indecent images. DH's favourite person

[LotinLife]

Need some advice on how to 1. Save our marriage 2. Whilst protecting our young children 3. Living with the fact that you're the only one that suspects.

So, BIL, who I've known for 15+ years and has always been a close relative. Knew him since he was a young teenager. My DH (older by 9+ years) loves him and has quoted on a number of occasions that he is his favourite person and has unconditional love for him. DH of course loves his children and they too are his favourite persons. Anyway, DH and BIL relationship is extremely close and has been commented on how close they are by all members of family and friends.

However, in the past year we were contacted by SS that he was charged with possession of indecent images and that he was to have no unsupervised visits with our children. Of course that came as a shock. SS apologised that in fact they should've contacted us earlier.
BIL hadn't told us anything.

But being a family we wanted to hear both sides (SS didn't go into the details). BIL broke down to DH via call and said that there was a couple of files to believed were found and he had no awareness of them because he had a large amount of neutral pornography all together. Now at the time I accepted this answer, if you had a couple of images out of thousands you could be innocent of not knowing they were there. We gave him the benefit of the doubt. we also understood why he didn't tell us and believe he was working up the courage to do so. I've know him since he was younger so I didn't suspect anything and I'll admit his is he abit of coward especially about tarnishing the image my DH has of him. We continue to back him up and allowed supervised visits.

Until the court charges were brought to light and the extent of the images. This was a year later. A couple of images (BIL said) turned into hundreds (plural) , all different categorises. He didn't me and my DH this was released but it was my FIL who said to us off handed. I read them and my heart fell. I also had questions, what does inaccessible mean etc? So those hundreds of images were inaccessible but a couple weren't and so I did a quick search and took the first answer that inaccessible meant the accused didn't have access to them... Which in our eyes matched the original story: that BIL didn't know they were there and how they got there. Again we believed him yet annoyed again he didn't inform us (so that we as a family could prepare to protect him).....
A month past since that revelation and I felt things didn't start to add up anymore.
2 files is not closer to a thousand files... Does inaccessible really mean that? There was no mention about malicious software to create those images out of thin air.... Surely the investigation team are the best to consider search results and parameters? How does someone even come across these?!
That's when I looked again at what inaccessible means and from definition it's simply that they were deleted or moved... But had left an imprint on the device, which the team can see what the file was and recover it. So unfortunately I dont know for sure if they were viewed before or simply deleted because they were mass deleted..... But again, that does not (in my opinion) equate to the original story.

I have now my suspicions. I worry for my children. I feel BIL, being the baby of the family, is grooming them all and that he could in fact groom my children when he is able (when his sentence is up/lifted).

My DH, I love him, but I have strong belief he will never believe my suspicions and quite frankly believe BIL is no threat.

I'm stuck in the position that it really is me against his family and he'll choose his family.

I've accepted that I may never convince him but then how can I ensure that BIL is not able to be a threat? If I divorce can I demand full custody to ensure they can not see BIL without supervision? Would that be guaranteed? Or should I maintain the marriage (which honestly was fine before this massive upheaval) but be that always vigilant hovering mother and manipulate events so that BIL is never alone with the children without offend DH. I know I would like to have the cut all ties off, but am I doing that to spite my face or, although more stressful and long term, be the one in control... Keep your friends close keep your enemies closer phrase comes to mind.

Still awaiting on BIL final sentence but if he's still allowed supervised visits am I able to anonymously ask SS to apply stricter rules without DH knowing so I can at least not have to start this vigilante/passive aggressive action to block BIL interaction immediately?

@LotinLife there is a strong likelihood that your DH has also been groomed by this family member, the reality is they are predatory characters.

Your DH needs time to come to terms with this, you are adhering to SS advice regarding access, sentencing is likely to result in time served in prison and I suspect that is when the gravity of the situation will hit your DH.

If a custodial sentence is given, you have time to gauge the fall out and, more importantly, the reaction from your DH. Let the dust settle before raising the longer term implications of the Uncle’s ‘relationship’ with your children. You, understandably, want no further contact, and you need to trust your gut instinct. If your DH doesn’t agree, then a 1000 questions need to be asked.

Children should always come first

@Ddot

Its not your husbands fault and he will see the light very soon. I had a Mate who I really liked actually everyone liked him. He was kind, fun and always happy, caught abusing children. I wouldnt believe it, must be a mistake, had to be. Nope! he had been at it for years and years. Spoke to prison warden who said he heard him swooping stories in jail. Can't even say his name now.

What makes you think that the husband will "see the light"? Even the OP has been burying her head in the sand, swallowing the abuser's story over SS advice

Is there only me that has thought maybe your husband is more involved than he lets on or there's a reason they're so close.

I don’t think this at all.
Just because someone’s related to you doesn’t mean you act how they act.

I would be worried about DBIL using my computer to download stuff as I’ve heard of this before as they’re then untraceable but I wouldn’t assume my DH had anything to hide anymore than I would any other man.

Can you clarify? Has he been convicted? You mention going to the hearing but also the sentencing.

I don't know if this has been mentioned LotinLife - but look at the Lucy Faithful foundation - they offer a support line for people in your position - really helpful. Confidential Helpline = 0808 1000 900.

Midwife

@Fairiesandmonsters

OP have you had a conversation with you’re DC about BIL making any inappropriate touches or anything at any point in the past (before your guard was up from SS ‘supervised visits’ warning)? If they have been abused by him they need relevant counselling and therapy etc. Also, once you confront DH and give some kind of ultimatum (to stop BIL contact to keep your DC safe), if then DH still chose BIL over you and DC after a very clear and maybe graphic explanation from SS/police of extent of images BIL was watching….I would seriously question and investigate whether DH was not also like your BIL. It would make me question DH character if after knowing clear undeniable truth, why he would WANT to still have contact (even if your DC had no contact), with a NONCE, no matter how close family relationship was?

Be very careful about this. The questioning can create problematic further down the track. Get professional advice before trying this.

@Pbbananabagel

Speaking as a survivor of CSA by an uncle, who was my dad’s youngest brother, who my mum knew since he was a kid… Your children may have already had uncomfortable experiences with this man that they can’t/don’t know how to tell you about. They may never forgive you and your husband for putting them in a position to be abused. Abusers groom parents too, your husband needs support to research this and think clearly without his emotions and beliefs surrounding his brother clouding his mind.

Also a CSA survivor here, abused by a cousin. I blame the cousin. I absolutely do not blame my parents or aunt and uncle - I genuinely think they were clueless. The person who is guilty is my cousin. Don't lay this additional guilt on the OP.

[quote Tonkerbea]@cuno I think posters are calling out the bullshit, which is why OP has stopped responding. My only hope is that some of the advice she's been given helps her find the courage to sever ties with her BIL, and anyone else who tries to protect him.

I just can't understand why their initial response was to assume he wasn't bullshitting with his excuses and worry about how to 'protect' him! Honestly, I think I have to hide the thread as it's making me so angry.

[/quote]
Yes and it's a clear indicator of how they will behave going forward 🤦‍♀️

You have adhered to everything SS have asked you to do .so I think wait until the court case and then see what SS say after the verdict .You have to trust they will know what is right once the verdict is in . And then yes I think you will have more control if you are inside the marriage .

Perhaps by then the whole family might have had their eyes opened to what ever the truth is .

[quote mathanxiety]**@Shtfday the phrase means wilfully refusing to accept the truth.

It doesn't mean that deaf people can't tell right from wrong ffs.[/quote]
I agree with @Shtfday calling you out on this. It's so easy to utter these cliches without considering the offence they may cause. It doesn't mean it was said in malice but we can all continue to learn and grow if we listen. We know that marginalised communities rarely have their voices heard, I think we should take the opportunity to listen.

The loyalty, the lies, the empathy
The unconditional love
His not being concerned it would effect your DC's (BIL truly loves DH's DC's)
The 9 years age gap (BIL would have been 4/5 when DH hit puberty?)

It explains it all. They were both abused as children. By a family member. BIL is 'dealing' with it like this.

Everyone is worried the whole, sorry mess will come out in court.

I apologise if this is an insensitive post, but I also smell 'trauma bonding'

I find it staggering that when told by police not to let this man near you children you both continued to allow just that!!

A former colleague was convicted of similar 20 years ago.

Shit hit the fan at work when he was arrested.

He pleaded guilty and was fined. (Early days when prison sentences weren’t the usual result, also pictures at the milder end)

Another colleague spoke to the police - he’d sold her his old computer - which he thought he’d wiped. Turned out it still contained his images. She got it back a few months later minus its hard drive.

Her honesty saved her and her husband a great deal of upset.

Check all of your equipment/replace it.

Access later……. I’d be tempted to find shoe laces to iron if he is to be there at future family events.
I’d be asking SS for their advice if the family are pushing for you/your children’s presence at family events. That would be a line in the sand for me.

If he’s awaiting sentencing, then I’ll assume he’s either pleased guilty or been found guilty. Your husband needs to accept his brother is a convicted nonce & he shouldn’t be within a country mile of any child, let alone his own. If he can’t ‘get’ that, there’s something wrong with him.

The most the police will be able to give you at this point is the charges which are very brief details of the case.

I’m a newspaper reporter who covers these kind of cases day in, day out. There’s a very familiar pattern to this kind of offending.

He’ll likely have been caught by investigators after his credit card details have been used to download illegal images.

They’ll have come to his house, taken his laptop and examined it. Illegal images will have been found and he will have been arrested, questioned and then eventually charges. That process can take many months (sometimes years). If he was innocent why did he not tell you when he was arrested?

The defendant always, without exception in my experience, denies what’s happened to his family. Says it’s all a big error, he accidentally downloaded something or didn’t know it was on his computer.

Brief details of the charge and first court appearance go into the paper and the wife or sister (never the defendant) rings me to have a massive go at me and tells me they’re innocent and I’m going to be sued (court listings have privilege, so not possible to sue, but that’s by the by)

They’ve always been put off going to court by the defendant who tells them it’s just an administrative hearing or they don’t want to put them through the trauma etc.

Sometimes they say they’ll plead guilty but they still tell their family that they’re only doing it because they get a lesser sentence (who’d admit looking at images of child abuse if they hadn’t done it?! I’d deny it to the grave)

When that fails they minimise their offending. It was only one image, it slipped through the net, I thought she was 18 etc (I’ve seen a man tell his wife he thought a three year old baby could consent). And then they’ll say that looking at images causes no harm anyway. It’s not as if they’ve actually abused anyone themselves, right?

I always, always tell the family to go to court and listen to all the evidence. Judges don’t muck about with this stuff. You’ll get the unvarnished truth. People don’t download images by accident (they’re expensive, for a start). The CPS doesn’t prosecute people for having one or two images with no other context of abuse on the computer. It’s not in the public interest to do so.

I very frequently see wives break down in the public gallery at sentencing hearings because it’s the first time they’ve heard the truth and many of them have been defending their paedophile husbands to all and and sundry because they’ve had the wool pulled over their eyes.

In 20 years I’ve not seen a single person found not guilty of having these images on their devices.

You must go to court and, more importantly, your husband must go to court. It’ll likely be in the paper anyway but they may not be able to put all the details in there because they’re too sexually explicit. I often have to leave very graphic details of the hideous abuse out of my stories. You literally wouldn’t believe what some people look at.

Don’t let this man anywhere near your kids.

I hope op is quietly taking all this on board and is realising her actions/excuses to date have been unacceptable. I hope she finally realises she needs to keep the kids safe and stop downplaying things

I think op definitely wants to keep the kids safe. I hope she succeeds and is OK and has real life support away from this man's bubble.

@maddy68

this is a difficult one I used to work in this field and a file is sometimes referred to as a Zip file which may have thousands in or just one . In addition most child images are on the dark web where you can get caught out if downloading some kinds of porn so may have unwittingly downloaded child images too

even if he has deliberately downloaded child images he is statistically very unlikely to hurt your child ( although its a massive red flag)

In addition to this he is family and not a stranger and your husband is clearly very upset and loves his brother and wishes to support him I suspect he knows him better than anyone and the fuller picture

I definitely would never leave my children alone with him however the lac of a sentence indicates that he is probably telling the truth and they've been downloaded with other images and indicates an extremely low risk but they do have a duty of care to notify family with children which is what they have done

What? There is nothing difficult about this at all. The man has been convicted of downloading CP. He is a nonce. His actions have already caused the pain and suffering of children and I'd love to see your evidence that he is "extremely low risk". OP, don't allow him anywhere near your DC even if he is supervised. Also watch your DH carefully, ask yourself why he is protecting his brother over his DC. What has his brother got on him? Most abuse occurs in families, remember that.

@LotinLife

I worked with the police and the sexual crimes unit. The processes they have to go through and evidence they need to collect to make a case are insane. He’s not innocent and I most definitely wouldn’t be allowing even supervised visits

Don't let him near your kids and if your DH reaction is anyless- he's complicit.

@FrancescaContini

I don’t understand why you didn’t listen to SS at the beginning.

Where does it say OP didn't?

@girlmom21

Social services don't tell you to stop contact for no reason. Stop allowing a known paedophile any kind of contact with your child.

They're you're priority.

Tell your DH there's no more contact or he needs to leave and you'll take him to court in order to keep the children safe. It's that simple.

Sorry.

But they didn't tell OP to stop contact. They only said that visits must be supervised.

I am not sure how old your children are. I would certainly begin preparing them. Tell them that children and grownups should not have secrets - you are always allowed to tell Mummy. No other adults except doctors and nurses should ever touch you between the neck and the knees or try to take your clothes off. If they feel somebody is doing something wrong, tell them to yell "STOP" as loudly as they can and tell you right away. Nobody takes photographs of you unless Mummy or Daddy is there. You explain that Mummy will not be angry but it's just to be sure to keep them safe.

Frankly in your BIL's circumstances he probably shouldn't come within 5 feet of children ever again. I think he is minimising his activities and you were naïve to ever believe his story about a couple of dodgy images somehow slipping onto his computer with other grubby stuff. Most people wouldn't even know how to go about getting those sorts of images.

I'm not suggesting your husband is complicit but I simply can't understand his attitude. His brother is a grubby little paedophile. If this were my husband's brother and we had small children, his brother would never see them again. As a small child I expressed some dislike of an uncle, my father's brother. My father immediately inquired whether there was any particular reason why I disliked him, had he ever done anything to me? Of course he hadn't and I told my father that. I just can't understand why your husband can't accept that his brother is a danger to small children and to his children in particular.

I would do everything to get the full details of the case. Many cases - the judge decision bit, rather than a transcript - are published online so I'd be googling your BIL's name. The judge will go through the facts in his/her decision. If you can't get it, a solicitor might be able to do so. (They have access to professional databases which are paid sites.)

Please contact the Lucy Faithfull Foundation. They will be able to support you. www.lucyfaithfull.org.uk/

@Barkingmadhouse

I hope op is quietly taking all this on board and is realising her actions/excuses to date have been unacceptable. I hope she finally realises she needs to keep the kids safe and stop downplaying things

She's not downplayed anything. SHE's the one wanting to take action beyond what SS has decreed.

This thread has gone nuts. So many people have said that she's not done what she was told to do. She has. But she wants to know how to get SS to go further so that she has official instructions that her DH will have to keep accept and keep to. Because it is impossible for her to force her DH not to take her children for supervised access at this point, and she WANTS to keep them away from the BIL completely.

I really don't know why people want to make things up in order to attack OP in this situation. She's in an impossible situation and people are just trying to make her feel even worse. It's shameful.