To email school about DD never being recognised…

[Greyhop]

I’m very happy to be put in my place here! DD is pretty quiet, well behaved at school. She is very good academically - but never gets certificates, is never on school council, has never been to headteachers tea party throughout her time at school/happens termly with about 4 children from her class chosen to go along (some children in her class have been 4 or 5 times). This has been fine up til now.

This year she has started to say “I’m not popular”. I’ve supported her with this - saying she may not be sporty etc, but she does well in English. Everyone has different talents.

The school do reading awards. A new thing this year. DD got to her bronze award, and she was first to do so. Since then she has read avidly, in the hope of getting a mention in assembly as first to get to platinum. 2 weeks ago the school was told someone in year 6 is only a few reads away. It was her. She has followed the rules, written reams in her reading diary - worked it all out that she could get to platinum first. I was reluctant to go with this, but I could see how keen she was - and that she was set to get it.

Yesterday, 4 other children got the award before her - in a different year group - and the only way they could have got it was by their teacher allowing them extra reads to beat her.

She is absolutely devastated!!!

I’m too emotionally invested in this aren’t I? I shouldn’t have encouraged her. But I’ve never seen her sob her heart out like this!

I’ve told her we’ll do our own award/tea party at home. She’s now happy. AIBU to vent in an email to the school????

That's the sad thing about my dc class. I'd say about 25 out of the 30 kids are great, hard working generally pleasant kids. There's around 5 that have behavioural needs that just overtake everything. So the rest just have to muddle along, it's so sad and has marred the entire class' experience and education. The school have been throwing everything at the situation to try to improve things but we are a few years down the line and it's still a massive barrier. I worry about it alot and even considered moving my dc when school reopened after lockdown. I decided in the end it was better the devil you know, but I am still not happy to be honest, as are the other parents who see their kids potential hampered. 😶

@BronwenFrideswide

People trying to work out what constitutes a 'read' make good points and if it is as some suspect then the whole award system needs to be split on the basis of Year Groups otherwise unfairness is already built in.

Why shouldn't the OP's daughter want to come first for once and have recognition for that? This is a child that found something she could excel at and worked at it to do so and despite playing by the rules and doing what was asked of her the deck was seemingly stacked against her. This is demotivating, this does lead to a children thinking why bother? is that really what teachers want?

I find it depressing that this kind of stuff is still going on even now, it did in my parents day, my day, my childrens day and now my grandchildrens day, this culture in education is obviously never going to alter. The criteria for awards may have changed as it now seems to be those who are least deserving and more often than not outright bullies but the resentment at the unfairness of it remains the same. It's little wonder many have a very jaundiced view of their school days.

Goodness, she was recognised. She came in first before. How many times does this need to be written down? This time four other kids read more than her so she got her award later. She was still recognised and praised by the teacher.

People are are mixing this case up with their own experiences or general experiences.

@Snowbell99

Thanks because I do really need to see the anti of it all. So when she got her previous awards, yes -she did get some recognition in class.

But there is more school ‘hype’ over the platinum I would say. Or the platinum is the ultimate goal. With names read out in assembly. This has been presented as the ‘big deal’ in the school with the head in assembly saying who is x number of reads away from the ultimate goal.

I think it’s also a frustration with : abiding by the rules. The other class - didn’t. And other than this she definitely is a ‘grey child’ who generally does her best/follows the rules/is an introvert but is not ‘picked’/overlooked and believes she is not popular,

And tbh, I think it would be the same in any school, bar one or two teachers who may be able to empathise.

And because she is a girl, and this may be a continuing theme through her life - I want to support her. And do I do that by not addressing - or standing up to unfairness?

This perhaps IS just a minor thing, and it does feel to me like I’m over invested - but it’s a continuing theme which I’ve just ‘let go’ before. Her teenage years are coming, and I want her self belief, confidence to be strong. I want her to believe she is popular. And I want her to believe that she is ‘right’ to strive, work hard and abide by rules.

And - I haven’t read all the replies here yet, but lots of posters appear to be experiencing the same! It’s really makes me wonder how detrimental/the effect that award systems have in schools if they tend to give recognition primarily to extrovert behaviour, or to those often don’t follow the rules.

I would 100% discuss yhis with the school and I'd not make a small issue out of it but a fairly large one - ask to meet the headteacher. (I'm saying this as a teacher.) This is really awful and seems to he affecting your daughters self esteem and self image based on what you've said. It's awful that she's being made to feel like this not by her peers but the teachers 😳 They probably don't realize, it's easy to overlook the good kids, but it's so important that it doesn't continue. The poor girl.

I would discuss. Children are like us: things they perceive as injustices can eat away at them. My 5yo is refusing to go back to a sports club at school because she’s never had the group award over 2 terms. I’ve had her in tears, I’ve mentioned it to the teacher whose forgotten but it’s eaten away at her seeing other children getting it multiple times when she never has. It really upsets me that this has broken her confidence and enthusiasm at such a young age.

She also questioned pretty early on in the term why some of the ‘naughtier’ children has got the class star of the week award before her when she’s so good in school. Didn’t really have an explanation for that tbh other than some children find behaving harder but seeing a child thar has hit her getting the certificate before she did made her absolutely furious. when she got her one, it was then for something random like asking good questions and she found it completely meaningless. She couldn’t understand how she hadn’t been recognised for other things she felt were more worthy of the certificate than asking questions.

Basically children aren’t stupid and poorly designed awards systems can have detrimental effects even in very young children. I don’t know if my child is just hyper aware of this stuff but it would honestly be better not to have had these awards at all.

OP we have had this over the years too. Teachers do definitely favour certain students and parents and families who have a lot to do with the school. It shouldn't happen but it does unfortunately. My kids sit somewhere in the middle and don't really get noticed. It used to really upset me and the kids but we've learnt to deal with it in other ways. They have lots of things they are good at outside school eg sport and dance so this helps somewhat in encouraging them. It's upsetting and I do completely understand how you feel.

Posters who insist your daughter did get recognised so what’s the problem and we’re all just hijacking this thread to bleat about our own poor darlings. No. She didn’t come first because others didn’t follow the rules. The ones who didn’t follow the rules were rewarded. This was detrimental to the one who did follow the rules. This is repeated in school and indeed life over and over again. It is serious, and it can affect people so negatively.

Yes this incident may seem minor to some, but it is accumulative. Some children learn that you consistently do the right thing, follow the rules and you seem to sit and watch those who don’t do those things getting along just fine, indeed are often rewarded.

That’s wrong.

Skipped the last 5 pages of replies so this might've been said already, but is there a cultural issue here with this specific school/head teacher? I've never heard of a head teacher's tea party but it sounds a bit nauseating. Who's it actually for and who's benefitting from it: the children who get to go (and if so, why - what's really in it for them in terms of their long term learning and development?) or the head who hand-picks the attendees among all the buzz, excitement and, by the sounds of it, understandable anxiety? I feel heart sorry for your DD, OP, but if it were me I'd really be raising an eyebrow here about the school's values and ethos and what they're actually trying to achieve through the various awards/systems they have in place.

Agree with the poster who suggested you meet with the head - quiz them about their motivations and then, on the back of that conversation, you can decide how to take it forward with your DD. But mindful of the transition to secondary school I'd be tempted to downplay it just a little bit in case, as I say, the secondary is staffed and led by slightly more sensible (less Willy Wonka?) types. Your daughter might just be on the cusp and she might really fly once she gets there - hopefully a more mature environment where her self-motivation and achievements will shine.

Sorry I haven’t replied individually, but thank you for all the excellent posts. And the posts from teachers.

The tea party thing is a bit ‘twee’ - I think it’s a tradition in the school. I have seen it in other schools - with trips to an ice cream shop etc as a reward.

I spoke to someone about it yesterday who had exactly the same thoughts regarding her child. She actually said to the teacher that she wanted to ‘opt out’ of certificates etc for her child as she never gets them. She told the teacher that she’d do all celebration of achievements at home.

I’m wondering if that might be a good way forward, giving parents the opportunity to opt out of school reward systems. For every child that gets motivated by a reward there are probably 29 who are demotivated.

DD has actually perked up significantly when I said we’d do a celebration for her at home.

And thanks also because it’s very interesting to read the similar experiences.

I think it’s also a frustration with : abiding by the rules. The other class - didn’t.

Again, you don’t know this. Children in year 6 like your dd will have had different criteria to count as a ‘read’ than younger children.

Your most recent posts have acknowledged that your dd has had awards before. I do understand how awful it is to see your child upset about things like this at school and if your dds perception is that she is overlooked and unpopular then that is still a problem. But it really doesn’t sound like you can complain your dd never gets recognition or awards, because she does.

It might also be worth reminding her that she has missed a lot of school because of lockdown, and it could well be that in one of those terms that she wasn’t at school she would have been to a HTs tea party. Tbh, those do sound like they have the potential to be unfair.

@FairyCakeWings

From the figures the head read out in assembly, no - even if the other class were allowed double the number of reads DD they wouldn’t have caught her up. But 4 in the other class achieved it and DD not. But clearly I’m too invested here to ‘know’ these figures! DD was so excited, and communicated it all too me - and I (and I think I was wrong here!) - encouraged her to get there/have you written in your book etc. The award became more significant than the reading. This shouldn’t have happened!

She has had awards, but they tend not to be the ones that carry the big significance/popularity at school - . E.g the tea party is a ‘big’ thing, I’d say every member of her class has been on the school council at some point - they wear a badge all term. Even if the tea party was lost to Covid, it happens every term. So there have been 50 opportunities (minus Covid) - with some children going multiple times. She hasn’t been once.

Again - I can’t believe I’ve just worked this out!

And it’s more about DD feeling motivated, confident, recognised, and that her hard work/good behaviour pays off. If I encouraged her not to behave well, I actually think she’d get more recognition at school.

Spot on @Greyhop
It really is ultimately about your kids being hard working, well motivated and decent members of society for themselves and their own well being. I still believe, despite all of the experiences on here, that being a good person will lead to rewards, not school certificate rewards, I mean life rewards.

I’ve encouraged mine when young and feeling aggrieved to keep on being exactly who they are and true to themselves. It sounds to me that your daughter has a bright future.

Brilliant idea to reward her as a family, or if you’re lucky enough to have extended family could they send a little card or treat thanking her for her lovely nature/ hard work whatever it may be.

Your DD is part of the huge majority of kids that never get mentioned.
Throughout DDs' primary and secondary schooling it was the same kids who got to be Mary and Joseph, on the school council, interviewed by the local paper.... whatever.
I remember DD2 being upset because someone got recognised at the annual awards ceremony for attending every single orchestra practice. So had DD.
It carries on into work. My employer has an acknowledgement system for employees of the month, best contributor, etc. Some people never get recognised, even though (for example) the project manage who did, wouldn't have delivered a successful project without huge support from "Jim" and "Jane" working overtime. I'd be willing to bet the PM was also Joseph, and on the school council.

It's a hard lesson, but your DD needs to learn it.

It's hard to please everyone. It's incredibly important that all children feel rewarded and recognised in the class , and if a child in my class didn't I would absolutely want to know , and would make sure that they did. I always try my best to ensure all feel valued and try and notice all the things they do however little. So in that respect , do speak to the teacher and they should help.

However, those saying that they begrudge children who struggle with school also being rewarded, can you not see that what is a small achievement for your child might be a huge achievement for another child, for a whole lot of reasons that the school may know but you won't. My 3 year old understands that she finds sitting and listening easy but others don't, and is very pleased for them when they are praised for doing the right thing. ( she tells me regularly what the other children are up to!)

She loves being praised herself , and she is regularly, but that child might receive a reward for excellent listening, but hers may be for something she has had to try a little harder for. Recognising effort , not achievement so much , as different achievements as easier for some and harder for others.

It's impossible for all children to be rewarded at the same time , so one child will receive a reward for something they found tricky before others. However, it should be fair and all children recognise over time.

Agree @Italiandreams
I work with students who find things more difficult than others and of course they need, and appreciate rewards.
I think it’s when this happens at the expense of the invisible children that things get difficult for everyone. It’s so hard to strike the right balance and some school systems hinder rather than help.
Thoughtful teachers will always try to make it as fair as possible for everyone, but it’s not easy!

I agree it's important all children are recognised and I would always make sure they were ( even if it includes a class list!)

However, some of the comments from some posters did lack empathy for those children who perhaps were recognised for achievements different to their own, and the order in which those rewards were given. How else will those children who struggle to behave improve unless they also are rewarded and praised?

I completely agree there should never be favouritism and we should strive to ensure all children feel valued and rewarded. I just recognise that achievements look different to different children.

I’m wondering if a school did an experiment - to ditch all reward systems for a year, and rely purely on intrinsic motivation, would it work? Would it be better for all?

That some children ‘need’ rewards more than others. Is that fair, is that discriminatory? Is that stereotyping a particular group - and what effect would it have on a more introverted child who won’t speak up, but desperately ‘needs’ a reward.

I heard of a teacher once who asked her TA to keep a tally chart of every child she asked to answer a question over the course of a week. There was one child who was - very significantly - never asked. So the teacher made a point of ensuring that child was asked in every discussion - after the tally chart. That child suddenly flourished. And had previously been a very quiet member of the class.

Yes, I totally agree.

Of course reward a child for sitting still when they find that difficult to do and you don’t need to reward a child who finds that easy! Of course reward a child for waiting their turn when this is something they struggle with etc etc.

OPs dd doesn’t need rewarding for those things. Some children do. But OPs dd and others like her should be rewarded for something they’ve worked very hard for too!

There is indeed a lack of empathy for some students, I’ve taught in alternative provision most of my career, but it has to be fair. I think some parents who appear to lack empathy might understand why certain students have been rewarded but can’t understand why their kids haven’t?

Sorry cross posted.
Yes OP, as teachers we may have an unconscious bias that sometimes only recording what we do helps us to see the effect we have on our children.

I remember way back in training a tutor observed my lesson and physically tallied the number of times I visited/ talked to/ helped/ disciplined the boys’ tables. In my nervousness I inadvertently wanted to make sure they were controlled as the girls’ tables were all getting on quietly. I couldn’t believe the difference in numbers!

It’s so hard to remain neutral, good teachers work on this daily.

YANBU. Mine are older teens now, but during primary they always got overlooked as they were quiet and unassuming.

The same kids would get awards. Many of these had behavioural issues, so I could see why the school were doing this (even though one basically bullied half the year group in Y6), but wondered why they couldn't throw mine a bone now and then.

The PTA members' kids were always picked gor the school plays.

Attendance awards given to those whose parents shoved them in with noro/flu regardless, whereas the kids with hospital appointments and health conditions never got a look in.

@Newbie44 - but is it best for that child who has difficulty sitting still - to do it for an extrinsic reward, does it help in the long run - or is it a ‘quick fix’? If the school had no extrinsic reward system, and relied more on intrinsic motivation - would that be better for the child who is learning to sit still.

And I’m not sure children should be ‘sitting still’ - but that’s another topic for debate!!

@Greyhop
Perhaps sitting still was a bad example! I meant something one student would find easy to do whereas another student wouldn’t.

Yes, not even sure that an extrinsic reward would really help the student in the long run. My daughter’s school have a book for certain students. It’s private and all positive things are written here and reviewed with the child. No obvious reward in front of others etc but an ongoing conversation with child about the positives and how this could improve self esteem/ behaviour etc.

You’re right that your dd may now benefit from intrinsic rewards, but she still wanted her name read in assembly bless her!

Your idea sounds like a good experiment, maybe put that to your school, although I can understand they may find this a bit radical 😊

@middleager

That made me smile - the throwing of the bone! It is the behavioural issues and the PTA children. Every time.

@Newbie44 that sounds excellent. And I also think there are some children who hate to be stood in front of a crowd and clapped. That would be private, personal and far more motivating.

@Newbie44

Posters who insist your daughter did get recognised so what’s the problem and we’re all just hijacking this thread to bleat about our own poor darlings. No. She didn’t come first because others didn’t follow the rules. The ones who didn’t follow the rules were rewarded. This was detrimental to the one who did follow the rules. This is repeated in school and indeed life over and over again. It is serious, and it can affect people so negatively.

Yes this incident may seem minor to some, but it is accumulative. Some children learn that you consistently do the right thing, follow the rules and you seem to sit and watch those who don’t do those things getting along just fine, indeed are often rewarded.

That’s wrong.

You are simply not paying attention to what is being written. We do not know whether the other kids got the award in a fair manner or not. The OP is just assuming that they didn't so people have explained that because they are younger they probably had less pages to read. But we can only find out if the OP asks.

Anyway, just assuming that the others cheated is not very fair towards children as well given that we don't have any proof. Being accused of cheating when you won something fairly is extremely wrong and can also hurt the children.

Obviously the OP should ask about the rules. Obviously she should ask about the weird tea party thing.

But people here are not reading properly and bringing their own emotions from their own experiences into this and it is not helping.

Of course children should be valued and recognised. No one is saying anything else. Of course it is terrible that the daughter is upset.