To confront a friend who is showy about not having kids?

[fmac2987]

I have a 2 year old DD and am expecting our second in 8 weeks.

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children.

Its not like I had it easy. 4 losses followed by IVF and we were lucky enough to be successful with IVF, and even luckier still to be having another. But I am struggling hard with the terrible twos and perinatal depression and she knows it.

Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) but I feel like its salt in the wound right now.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

I really don't know how to manage this.

Is it unreasonable to back away from this weird situation?

I am not backing out because you "have a life " as you claim it. I am backing away because your behaviour makes me infer you feel I do not. Or that it is somehow of less value to yours.

@Gowithme
I like your message. Would maybe change it to the following if op wants to continue the friendship at some stage.

‘Hi, I’m really struggling at the moment, I’m sorry you think I’m jealous. We both have a lot going on in with our lives and I haven’t wanted to burden you with my struggles and I’m not in a place to support you. This is why perhaps giving us both some space is the best thing right now.’

She’s clearly in a lot of pain and massively projecting. You’re totally right to back away. Perhaps this will be salvageable in the future. Time will tell.

Put yourself in her shoes and be a bit forgiving.

I think if I were in a situation like yours, I honestly hand on heart downplay my situation and do everything to make her feel better.

I'd say things like: "Omg you are soo bloody lucky getting a bath to yourself. I can't remember the last time I bathed in peace" and a lot along similar lines. Until she truly got to a point where she felt better.

It's really insensitive to complain or show pics and details of your family life.

I've been in situation when younger where I've been lucky and gone on a moan about it to someone who wishes they had what I have have. I cringe when I think about how tactless I was.

She is not the person to complain to or share pics with. And that should be ok.

@Butchyrestingface

Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc.

I have family and friends whose FB pages are a WALL of these types of photos. And they DO have kids.

Yes, it's all very tedious but that appears to be what floats their boat. Haven't seen anyone suggesting they're in "pain". Maybe your friend is just one of these types without it being anything to do with her childless state?

Presumably the reason that nobody is suggesting they’re suffering the pain of involuntary childlessness is that they have children.

@gannett

"A bit" mean? This is one of the outright nastiest suggestions I've ever read on this website.

OP moaning about parenthood to a friend who wanted children and can't have them is horrifically insensitive and it sounds like she's lashing out in kind.

Where did the OP say that she moaned to her friend about parenting?

It didn’t sound to me like the OP has done anything insensitive at all, and when she tried to gently pull away without creating a drama, the friend had a go, accused of jealousy, and then made a dig implying that OP has no life because she has children. That’s a lot more nasty than my suggestion that OP does exactly the same thing that her friend is doing.

@BringMeTea

I just don't get what this friend has done wrong. How is sending wine in the bath pic a dig at your life? This thread is weird.

Same. All we have to go on so far is OP's friend sending her photos of herself in the bath with wine (quite common if you look at Insta and FB) and suddenly the OP - and other posters - have surmised this is because the woman is in deep, desperate pain at her childless state.

Does this mean everyone who posts photos of their culinary creations to Rate My Plate on FB is experiencing some kind of existential agony?

Fuck's sake. It's possible to be a complete oversharing, boasty, pain in the arse without it having anything to do with the fruit of your womb (or lack therefore).

@ManateeFair

I’ve never quite understood why it’s OK for parents to talk about their kids and how precious they are and to share pictures of them all the time depicting the nicer side of parenting, but not OK for someone without kids to talk about all the amazing things they get to do with their freedom and show the nicer side of being child-free. Are people meant to hide the grownup stuff they do in case people with kids get envious?

Is your friend openly stating that she is showing off about not having kids? If she sends a photo in the bath with a glass of wine, is it captioned “Just unwinding! This is the life” or is it captioned “Look at me, doing this stuff because I don’t have kids!” Because there is a very big difference.

This!!!

A post recently came up here where the OP felt hurt her friends with children weren't asking her how she was, or taking an interest in her anymore. And it was full to the brim of people defending these mums saying of course they haven't because they don't have time or the brain capacity anymore as baby should be number one. And of course all they could talk about was the baby as that's their life now.

Why is not fair not this lady's friend to talk about her life?

The double standards on here are shocking.

Could there be insensitivity on both sides, maybe?
I lost my son in 2020 and have had no other babies just yet, and of my friends who've been pregnant/had babies since, I am so very happy for them and will love their children as much as I love them, but goodness they can on a bit, and not maybe always realise it can be painful to talk about over and over again.
I am not condoning her actions. Her comments were mean and bitchy.

Presumably the reason that nobody is suggesting they’re suffering the pain of involuntary childlessness is that they have children.

Yes, and my point is - those with and those without children do the same thing.

I expect she's just trying to make the best of being without children. She did try for them after all. It must be hard for her to see you with yours.

Cut her out now. From one IVF mum to another she's either in terrible pain still at never being a mother and treating you this way to make herself feel better which is sad and cruel or she's just an awful person who doesn't and will never understand how difficult things can and will be for you sometimes. Good luck with you littles ones and congratulations , x

@MabelsApron
Brutal for you. This woman is not your friend.

@Easterbunnyiswindowshopping

Being childless isn't the go ahead to treat your friends like shit.. Back away she isn't a friend. Send her a few pics of your dc first. A true friend would be happy for you.

Jesus fucking Christ.

It's not about children or no children for me. I don't find 'showy' people remotely interesting. It makes no odds what the subject is, the constant 'look at me' would get right on my tits.

I feel like its salt in the wound right now.

What wound? Are you not happy with your choice?

That's tough.

I would say that I had noticed she has consistently been mentioning these things and you let it slide as you imagined it was borne out of unhappiness and that you were being kind. However, if she chooses to bring it up and be an arsehole through dismissing the difficulties and heartache that you've had to have the family you want then you're not willing to entertain this nonsense. That you valued the friendship but won't put up with this shitty attitude.
Goodbye and wish you well.

Sounds like she's lashing out but there's only so much you can do to help others before it drains you.

@Butchyrestingface

Presumably the reason that nobody is suggesting they’re suffering the pain of involuntary childlessness is that they have children.

Yes, and my point is - those with and those without children do the same thing.

I don’t think anyone is debating that. It seems pretty evident from the totality of what OP has posted that her friend is in pain. Nobody is talking about your friends on facebook.

@FairyCakeWings "a bit mean" shame on you, that is absolutely vile. Beyond disgusting behaviour to suggest. I can only hope you don't have many friends if that's the way your brain works, absolutely horrendous.

The OPs friend has tried and failed to have children. She very clearly wanted them badly to have gone through IVF. She is now at peace with the hand she was dealt and is making the most of it.

OP chose to have children. Christ if she is triggered by a glass of wine and bath, then that's her own issue.

They are not the same thing.

@BluesCluesToo

I expect she's just trying to make the best of being without children. She did try for them after all. It must be hard for her to see you with yours.

I don’t understand how so many posters on this threes can’t see this. Your friend tried to have children and has clearly given up. She isn’t a child-free friend who has never wanted children and is showing off about her life. She is probably having an incredibly hard time coming to terms with the fact that she can’t have something that she desperately wants.

I notice that you haven’t come back and answered whether you’ve been moaning to her about your children… I wonder why that is.

For every picture she sends you of her bubble bath, you send her one of your children with the loved up emoji attached.

Jesus, wouldn't like to cross your bath on a cold, dark night.

Her comments were bitchy and uncalled for, certainly. But in the absence of OP coming back to clarify, I do wonder if they came totally out of left field or were a particularly childish response to something OP herself said.

"Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) but I feel like its salt in the wound right now."

"So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life."

I'd respond with 'Actually I'm avoiding you because your total insensitivity to my life has highlighted how little you care about me, and I think I'm a bit too fragile to be your captive audience right now. I'm not your whipping boy.'

Possibly drop the 'whipping boy' barb, but I'd definitely point out to her that's she's treating you as her audience and not her friend right now.

"Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) " - I agree. But being in pain doesn't give you the right to inflict pain on others, which is what she is doing here. These bath&wine pics are meant to land a punch on you, and that's plain nasty.

So many people on MN with ‘friends’ who sound like complete bitches who take their every insecurity and disappointment out on others. I’d be giving her a very wide berth.

this
You don't know her pain. You don't seem able to see past your own situation. You post really lacks empathy TBH.

My goodness, are you honestly looking at her bath photos and wishing your own IVF had failed? I'm assuming not.

YABU

This is so sad for your friendship. I definitely think her words come from a place of pain. I think to come to terms with no kids (especially if she was really set on them with ivf etc) she Is reminding herself of the ‘benefits’ of not having kids in her life. She doesn’t have to share that with you though in the way that she has with the ‘I have a life’ comment. I do think you could be more sensitive and not effectively rub her face in your baby and child related news as this to her will be upsetting and you both need to respect the others circumstances. I’d try and be the bigger person and maintain a friendship at a distance if necessary xo

I don’t think anyone is debating that. It seems pretty evident from the totality of what OP has posted that her friend is in pain. Nobody is talking about your friends on Facebook.

The "totality" of what she's posted? She made ONE post giving a single example of her friend doing something that both those with kids and those without (whether by choice or not) do in equal measure. And then surmised that her friend was driven to do this fairly common if tedious thing because she's in pain at her childless state.

I don't think this necessarily follows.