To confront a friend who is showy about not having kids?

[fmac2987]

I have a 2 year old DD and am expecting our second in 8 weeks.

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children.

Its not like I had it easy. 4 losses followed by IVF and we were lucky enough to be successful with IVF, and even luckier still to be having another. But I am struggling hard with the terrible twos and perinatal depression and she knows it.

Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) but I feel like its salt in the wound right now.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

I really don't know how to manage this.

Is it unreasonable to back away from this weird situation?

Yes, that's exactly how to communicate your hurt to someone in a healthy way that doesn't encourage escalation.

Fair point, but the healthy way didn’t work!

Are you sure that your friend sending pics of herself in the bath with a glass of wine is her ‘making a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments’ though?
It's an odd thing to do, esp if you know a friend is struggling. The fact that the OP merely started talking with her less and the friend immediately reacted in the way she did, suggests that the friend was indeed trying to be provocative, or was expressing her own insecurities.

Personally I think that would be if for me. If I get the sense someone is envious of something I have I tone it down when I’m around them so if she really thinks that your response of backing off is coming from a place of jealousy then she’s an arsehole for ‘calling you out’ (fucking hate that term anyway).

Her message was hardly designed to smooth over the friendship was it? It was designed to make you feel like shit by making her feel superior. What possible response is there to it other than you ending up apologising for struggling with motherhood? That’s an insane position for a friend to put you in.

I’m not unsympathetic to her, it took six long years for us to conceive dd and you know well enough to the kind of things infertility does to your headspace, but that doesn’t mean you can be an dick to people. On face value she’s happy and that’s great. You’ve backed off because you find her company hard at the moment (which is telling in itself tbh) yet she’s felt the need to needle you despite clearly knowing exactly what the issue is.

I have a lovely friend recently diagnosed with a life limiting illness. She put a public message on FB explaining she was coming off it because she was finding it really hard seeing constant updates of people doing lovely things that she is likely to never do again. It’s perfectly reasonable for someone to realise they’re not in a place to feel happy for others given their own situation and back off. There’s literally no need for anyone to be such an arsehole about it.

[quote FairyCakeWings]**@FairyCakeWings "a bit mean" shame on you, that is absolutely vile. Beyond disgusting behaviour to suggest. I can only hope you don't have many friends if that's the way your brain works, absolutely horrendous.

I’m suggesting the OP does the same thing to the friend that the friend is doing to her. If that’s hurtful for the friend, then maybe she’ll realise what she did first wasn’t very kind.

I have lots of lovely friends, and thankfully none of them would be nasty or insensitive enough to send a picture of themselves relaxing in a bath with wine to a friend that they knew was stressed to the point of clinical depression.

The OPs friend has tried and failed to have children. She very clearly wanted them badly to have gone through IVF. She is now at peace with the hand she was dealt and is making the most of it.

That’s would be great if it were likely to be true, but if she was really at peace with it then she wouldn’t feel the need to drag an already struggling friend down as her way of building herself up. She have enough brain space to empathise with OPs difficulties and be supportive instead.

OP chose to have children. Christ if she is triggered by a glass of wine and bath, then that's her own issue.

So what do you suggest she does about that issue when trying to back away gently hasn’t worked and she’s been confronted and accused of jealousy?[/quote]
The fact you're equating sending someone photos of your children PURPOSEFULLY (as you've suggested) to someone who has tried desperately to have children, and suffered IVF that didn't work, to someone sending pictures of wine in the bath, shows the kind of spiteful, disgusting person you are. Bear I. mind that OP does not know her friend is doing this on purpose. She is assuming through her own insecurities and depression that this is case.

I'm not even going to bother to converse with you, because honestly you're beyond talking to if that's the way you think. As I said before, shame on you. Absolutely vile.

It’s clear you both need to step back, as your friendship is hurting both of you. Personally, I wouldn’t cut any ties — I had DS late, after being happily childfree till almost 40, and I’ve had friends I believed to be equally happily childfree struggle, because I’d moved categories for them, and caused them pain in ways I hadn’t foreseen (because I’d met them long after they’d stopped trying to have a child). In a couple of cases, we’ve renewed our friendship years later.

If you value this friendship, you should give both of you some space without cruel parting shots.

@Grantanow

There is a gap between parents and the child-free in our society, more so perhaps for women than men. Their priorities and everyday lives differ to some degree. There is of course a third group - of which I and my partner are members - who had a child die in infancy and never conceived again. Some of the child-free experience themselves as childless for a variety of reasons including social pressure to be a parent. Others are child-free through choice and that is not necessarily a source of pain.

So sorry for your loss. I couldn't agree more. DH and I are young enough that we do technically have time, but we have accepted it may not happen and we have learned to be OK with that, partly because of the trauma we feel from losing our son. It doesn't mean we have suddenly flipped a switch and feel fine. Its still a sensitive, difficult topic.

Also can I add, OP mentions her friend knows about her PND.

Based on the thought process of many here, wouldn't discussing her PND with her friend who has tried and been unable to have children, be rubbing her face in it??

Or are people with children just automatically immune to any blame?

What an arrogant, self pitying post.

You don't want to see her living her life so you've ghosted her.

Then you've become annoyed that she called you out on ghosting her.

Not in a million years did someone you're apparently friends with say "you're jealous of my childfree life" without you telling her point blank that you're not engaging with her because her childfree photos are upsetting you. If you said that to me I would be furious and think what an awful friend who can't be happy for me happy in my life.

I'm sorry you're having a rough time but YABU and a bad friend.

You sound unkind and self-absorbed. Your 'friend' has been through a massive struggle, has discovered that she can't have kids, and is making a point in finding the joy in life anyway and you are chosing to reinterpret that as some sort of personal dig, as if she shouldn't be allowed to find positives in her situation just because you're having a hard time.

@Degreeincodology

I think you could be more sensitive. The pain of infertility is unbearable. She's obviously just trying to cope as best she can.

It's not an excuse to be a dick tonother people though.

I think a lot of posters have not read the last para of OP's post.

I'm not even going to bother to converse with you, because honestly you're beyond talking to if that's the way you think. As I said before, shame on you. Absolutely vile.

And if you think being involuntarily childless makes it ok for you to be nasty, insensitive and provocative to a friend who you know is struggling, the same right back at you.

she's the one who is jeolous and is taking it out on you. back off and don't engage. You need positivity just now

@FairyCakeWings

I'm not even going to bother to converse with you, because honestly you're beyond talking to if that's the way you think. As I said before, shame on you. Absolutely vile.

And if you think being involuntarily childless makes it ok for you to be nasty, insensitive and provocative to a friend who you know is struggling, the same right back at you.

Those assumptions and straws you're clutching at are getting a little weak.

I’m suggesting the OP does the same thing to the friend that the friend is doing to her. If that’s hurtful for the friend, then maybe she’ll realise what she did first wasn’t very kind.

Op is doing the same already. Her friend is very aware op is having a bad time of it. Because op is telling her. If the friend is still hurting, it's probably very painful to heat op moan about terrible twos and being pregnant.

There just as much chance here, that op isn't really thinking about her friend when she is saying how hard it is.

So why would op need to take it even a step further. At the moment all the woman has done is share some photos. And op is assuming she is rubbing it in her face. But she might not be meaning to that. Just like op doesn't mean to either.

Those assumptions and straws you're clutching at are getting a little weak.

Well, as you said you’re not going to bother to converse, we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Moaning about parenting to someone who can’t have kids is never ok. Gloating about a child fee life to someone who has kids is never ok. You’re both in the wrong. They’re just things that should never be said.

YANBU, OP. Perhaps in time you can both be friends again, but it sounds like at the moment you've both got lots to deal with, and sadly are reflecting back distorted images to each other that are worsening the situation, rather than helping.

Hope you're okay.

@Summerfun54321

Moaning about parenting to someone who can’t have kids is never ok. Gloating about a child fee life to someone who has kids is never ok. You’re both in the wrong. They’re just things that should never be said.

Those two things aren't even remotely comparable though, and I think that should be acknowledged. The first is so clearly far worse.

She's probably jealous to be fair and making out she's living her best life to make herself feel better about being childless. My sil and brother are a bit like this they couldnt have children and were really upset about it for years to the point they avoided seeing us for a couple of years as we had 3 children in that time. They go on lots of holidays and talk about early retirement etc, I'm not that close to my sil so it's only when I occasionally see them I have to put up with it. I remember a few years ago when our youngest was a few months old my brother hosted a bbq and invited lots of friends and family many who have kids. The kids were playing happily and my brother and his best mate who is also childless due to infertility were laughing saying they loved spending their money on expensive sound systems and not this nightmare (pointing at the kids playing). Me and my friend were sat in the room and just looked at each other, I know how devastated his friend was about children, his wife told me at length about it when i met her. It's just a defense mechanism making out your life is so much better without children, reality is they are sad they don't have what you have. Just take a step back from the friendship.

Completely agree, the former is worse

Sigh. That was to @HardbackWriter

@Oldraver

I also have a life but I dont want cunts in it, goodbye

This is a great response, maybe swap out the c word though!

@FairyCakeWings

Yes, that's exactly how to communicate your hurt to someone in a healthy way that doesn't encourage escalation.

Fair point, but the healthy way didn’t work!

The healthy way is either to have an honest conversation explaining the hurt (and I'm still not sure what OP is upset about if she doesn't regret her children) and then to withdraw from the friendship if that doesn't work. Not to taunt an involuntarily childless woman.

I would just move on from her as a friend. She sounds like the type to emphasis her child “free” status and get mad easily at anything she thinks threatens that being held up on a pedestal. You’ll also find a lot of people like that on here who will get mad very easily at the mere fact you posted this.
Who knows what makes everyone of them like that?
It’s not your problem, it’s hers.