To confront a friend who is showy about not having kids?

[fmac2987]

I have a 2 year old DD and am expecting our second in 8 weeks.

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children.

Its not like I had it easy. 4 losses followed by IVF and we were lucky enough to be successful with IVF, and even luckier still to be having another. But I am struggling hard with the terrible twos and perinatal depression and she knows it.

Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) but I feel like its salt in the wound right now.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

I really don't know how to manage this.

Is it unreasonable to back away from this weird situation?

I would text back

"I'm not sure if your rudeness is coming from a place of pain. I know what you have been through to try and have a child, or if you are genuinely happy but it feels as though you are trying to make me jealous and its quite upsetting to have someone who is supposed to be a friend dismiss what I'm going through and actively try and make me feel worse.
I'm going to have to pull away from the friendship because I don't think it's doing either of us any good."

I wouldn’t share parenting or pregnancy struggles with someone who couldn’t have children. Surely there are other people you can share that with or lean on?

She’s lashing out, you could have been more sensitive. You’re at too different places in your lives right now to support each other so you’re right to back away.

If a friend sent me a photo of herself in the bath I’d think she’d lost the plot. That’s completely bizarre.

It sounds tedious, although absolutely life can be amazing without children I suspect if she's going out of her way to post about it she is probably trying to make a point. Just don't engage for now.

Well you have a life too, which currently revolves around children. Pull back, if she continues in the 'you're just jealous' say no, you have something you tried very hard to have, and are happy to sacrifice a few years to prioritising them, and that naturally they take up quite a bit of time and she has to understand that. Here words may be her way of dealing with not having children of her own. Hopefully you be able to reconnect over whatever it was you previously shared - personally I loved seeing my child free friends - very happy not to talk about or think about the kids for a bit!

Perhaps she is actually the jealous one and she’s trying to make herself feel better by telling you how amazing her child free life is. She clearly wanted children desperately but it hasn’t happened for her, it must be tough. If you’re talking about how tough you’re finding parenting/pregnancy, she probably finds that difficult to deal with.

I had a friend like this. I hardly ever talk about my DC but if I did mention that I had to leave to pick up one, she would make a big theatrical show of saying how much she didn't want kids, and how free and unfettered she was, and how pointless it was to have them etc etc. Then one day she blew up at me and said " Don''t you think I wanted kids?" I said " No , because you make such a big production of not wanting them." The relationshop didn't survive.

I think I'd put 'Hi, I'm really struggling right now, I'm sorry you think I'm jealous, perhaps some space is the best thing for both of us right now.'

@gingerhills

I don't get it. She is showing how happy she is having all the advantages of not having children. Why shouldn't she? Does her happiness and freedom offend you? Why?

Can't you just say: looks lovely! Good for you for appreciating the advantages!

She must have wanted DC and it's a very hard thing to come to terms with not having them. Why would you, a friend, be annoyed that she has?

This. Why can’t you think good for her that she is making the best of life without kids.

I know from personal experience how hard it is when other people get lucky with IVF and you don’t.

@Theyellowflamingo

" I suspect the “lady doth protest too much” and actually she’s trying to convince herself she’s happy without children, but there’s no need to be plain nasty to you about it."

+++

A sad but accurate summary.

I’ve never quite understood why it’s OK for parents to talk about their kids and how precious they are and to share pictures of them all the time depicting the nicer side of parenting, but not OK for someone without kids to talk about all the amazing things they get to do with their freedom and show the nicer side of being child-free. Are people meant to hide the grownup stuff they do in case people with kids get envious?

Is your friend openly stating that she is showing off about not having kids? If she sends a photo in the bath with a glass of wine, is it captioned “Just unwinding! This is the life” or is it captioned “Look at me, doing this stuff because I don’t have kids!” Because there is a very big difference.

I think you probably just need to accept that your lives have moved in different directions and aren’t compatible enough to maintain your friendship anymore.
I sincerely doubt that you need someone calling you jealous right now with what you’re going through, although I do also feel there’s more to this story than outlined, so just detach yourself with grace.

I think it’s all bravado tbh. She hasn’t gone from desperately wanting kids to not wanting them. I feel for her tbh.

Your friend hasn’t made the decision to not have children, they’ve made the decision to stop. Trying as they can’t and it’s too painful. Maybe she sees you as rubbing her face in it as all the parenting worries/kids pics? But whatever the reason you’re clearly both not compatible as friends any more, equally from both sides. So let the friendship go for both of you. Neither of you are wrong or right

She has probably come up with this strategy for every time you talk to her about struggling with the life she really wanted.

She will feel upset every time you complain about a situation she desperately wants to be in and decided that she will retaliate with talking about a lifestyle you don't have anymore.

I think for both if your sakes you should back off, it's upsetting when friends enter different stages of life and the friendship isn't compatible anymore, but it would be more upsetting to keep on trying with the friendship and hurting each other.

I’ve never quite understood why it’s OK for parents to talk about their kids and how precious they are and to share pictures of them all the time depicting the nicer side of parenting, but not OK for someone without kids to talk about all the amazing things they get to do with their freedom and show the nicer side of being child-free. Are people meant to hide the grownup stuff they do in case people with kids get envious?

Me neither. I’ve also never understood why people can’t believe that many people who wanted kids but couldn’t have them can nevertheless have a happy and fulfilling life.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

I would just tell her it's not about her lack of children but her gobby ways.

@ManateeFair

I’ve never quite understood why it’s OK for parents to talk about their kids and how precious they are and to share pictures of them all the time depicting the nicer side of parenting, but not OK for someone without kids to talk about all the amazing things they get to do with their freedom and show the nicer side of being child-free. Are people meant to hide the grownup stuff they do in case people with kids get envious?

Is your friend openly stating that she is showing off about not having kids? If she sends a photo in the bath with a glass of wine, is it captioned “Just unwinding! This is the life” or is it captioned “Look at me, doing this stuff because I don’t have kids!” Because there is a very big difference.

Both are tedious in excess, I agree. I never shared a single photo of mine unless asked, except with my sister and mum. I don't talk about about precious they are either. ( vom) But there are some childfree folk-not many-who will leap up to say how happy they are even if you say something like " I need to pick up DS". During the pandemic, I noticed a number of people constantly tweeting about how they are so glad they didn't have children.

I think both parents and the childfree can protest too much, and I am suspicious of anyone who feels the need to keep saying how wonderful their lives are, especially on social media.

YABU

You have NO idea what she’s gone through in getting to her decision. And you have NO idea of the non- stop social pressure on and covert criticism of childless women.

@AnneLovesGilbert

I wouldn’t share parenting or pregnancy struggles with someone who couldn’t have children. Surely there are other people you can share that with or lean on?

She’s lashing out, you could have been more sensitive. You’re at too different places in your lives right now to support each other so you’re right to back away.

If a friend sent me a photo of herself in the bath I’d think she’d lost the plot. That’s completely bizarre.

I wouldn’t share parenting or pregnancy struggles with someone who couldn’t have children. Surely there are other people you can share that with or lean on?

Surely there must be someone? anyone else you can lean on rather than a woman trying to make peace with the fact she'll never be in your position?

YABU.

You don't know her pain. You don't seem able to see past your own situation. You post really lacks empathy TBH.

My goodness, are you honestly looking at her bath photos and wishing your own IVF had failed? I'm assuming not.

Don't 'confront' her, what would that achieve? It would make you look petty and mean.

Just back off from the friendship, it sounds quite toxic. You don't need to give a reason, just remove yourself from a situation that isn't working for you.

Stop comparing yourself to her. There isn't a finite amount of spare time in the world, it's not like her having more of it means you have less.

Sorry, meant to say @AnneLovesGilbert makes a very good point.

It sounds like she has made the best of the hand life has dealt her and decided to try to enjoy being single.

However it is hard for child-free people and parents of toddlers to chat as basically, they don't have much in common and it can easily look like one half is showing off.

Being a parent of toddlers is all consuming and unsurprisingly, most of your conversation is going to be about them. While she is single and all her conversation is still going to be about hobbies, travel, restaurants and the like.

Throw in the fact that parenting is hard even if you love your kids, she didn't actually choose to be child-free and there are a lot of emotions circling underneath in this relationship.

Note - my experience is as the child-free party.

The rational thing for you to do would be to be pleased that she's able to find the upside in a child free life after her struggles. But just at this moment that's not something you can do.

The rational thing for her to do would be to sympathise with the very tough time you're having with parenting. But just at this moment that's not something she can do.

If you've valued her company in the past then try and find a way to express that your different emotional states at the moment mean that you're not compatible friends, but that doesn't mean you won't be again, you just need to take a break.

@Thatsplentyjack

I would text back

"I'm not sure if your rudeness is coming from a place of pain. I know what you have been through to try and have a child, or if you are genuinely happy but it feels as though you are trying to make me jealous and its quite upsetting to have someone who is supposed to be a friend dismiss what I'm going through and actively try and make me feel worse.
I'm going to have to pull away from the friendship because I don't think it's doing either of us any good."

To be fair though this works both ways. 'You know how desperate for children I was/am yet you continue to moan and rub my face in how you have children.' I think this friendship has run its course.

Being childless isn't the go ahead to treat your friends like shit..
Back away she isn't a friend.
Send her a few pics of your dc first. A true friend would be happy for you.