To confront a friend who is showy about not having kids?

[fmac2987]

I have a 2 year old DD and am expecting our second in 8 weeks.

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children.

Its not like I had it easy. 4 losses followed by IVF and we were lucky enough to be successful with IVF, and even luckier still to be having another. But I am struggling hard with the terrible twos and perinatal depression and she knows it.

Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) but I feel like its salt in the wound right now.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

I really don't know how to manage this.

Is it unreasonable to back away from this weird situation?

@Woolandwonder
Wish there were more women like you and your friend around.

@Gowithme

I think I'd put 'Hi, I'm really struggling right now, I'm sorry you think I'm jealous, perhaps some space is the best thing for both of us right now.'

This is a good message. You don't need to confront her, or risk patronising her or upsetting her with any "coming from a place of pain" stuff. It opens up some vulnerability from you. Either she'll respect the distance you've created by stepping back, she'll review her assumptions and possibly offer some support to you, or you can both build some bridges while acknowledging you both have some benefits and difficulties that the other doesn't share.

@Woolandwonder

The thing is there is a way that you can share your difficulties and still be honest about what day to day looks like for both of you but it can take some work to get there. I can't have kids, never will, absolutely devastating, lots of health issues etc etc. Best friend has 2 but it's also really really hard for her due to having a child with significant special needs. We have reached a place where we can share whats happening for us honestly and that sometimes might look like me saying "I'm getting drunk in the bath" whilst she's wrangling a child in meltdown and sometimes it's her having a lovely family day out whilst I freak out alone and it's fine, it's totally fine. We love each other, we support each other in it all, she's my person and I'm hers..of course there are messy feelings on both sides that can be difficult but we are sensible adults who have a 20 yr friendship and the ability to really empathise and be compassionate with each others experience. I'm very lucky and it's definitely not like that with everyone, but my point is it doesn't have to be a battle of mothers vs non mothers or a misery competition.

You're absolutely right, @Woolandwonder, it doesn't have to a battle or a misery competition. People make different choices and face different challenges in their lives, it doesn't mean that they can't be friends.

Thanks yeah I really think it's possible and would like to get there with more friendships the ones where it currently feels much easier to feel envious and angry and sad which kind of fuels a toxic friendship. So yeah possible and massively rewarding and worth it but hard work!

A true friend will help each other through struggles, not criticise them for not meeting someone else’s needs.

Maybe reply to her that while you are very grateful for the kids that you have been able to have that it doesn’t take away from how hard you are finding a two year old and being pregnant. It’s doesn’t matter how easy or hard it was to conceive, the busyness of a two year old and growing another human being is tiring and draining. You can still feel tired and drained while being grateful.

Tell her that you are not jealous of her, you are just missing being able to do the things that you used to be able to do but currently you have neither time nor energy (physically or mentally). Tell her that you aren’t as quick to reply to all messages at the moment. You’d appreciate not being called jealous, you are happy that she is enjoying her life and that you can do that and also miss doing the things that she is able to do, they can both happen together.

You have everything, she has nothing.

This literally sums up in a nutshell what some women (and men) think about women who don't have/can't have kids.

@CastleBeckett Are you just rude? Build a bridge and get over yourself.

I wonder if she may feel certain emotions about you having children and she can’t/has chosen not to peruse. I get the feeling she may be hurting deep down 😢

@Stilsmiling
But OP has admitted she is jealous of her friend though

@Pumasonsatsumas

You have everything, she has nothing. You can afford to be generous and let this go.

A woman who does not have children has nothing? We are just wombs now are we?

@Clarabe1
Apparently so! You can have a life full of fun, friendships, a gorgeous house, an amazing partner, nice car, pets, lovely family, fulfilling well paid career, mind blowing travel and holidays, relaxation, hobbies, etc etc but none of that counts as anything!
Unless you have kids you have “nothing” 🤷‍♀️
Surely no one in real life actually thinks like that?!

@Woolandwonder

The thing is there is a way that you can share your difficulties and still be honest about what day to day looks like for both of you but it can take some work to get there. I can't have kids, never will, absolutely devastating, lots of health issues etc etc. Best friend has 2 but it's also really really hard for her due to having a child with significant special needs. We have reached a place where we can share whats happening for us honestly and that sometimes might look like me saying "I'm getting drunk in the bath" whilst she's wrangling a child in meltdown and sometimes it's her having a lovely family day out whilst I freak out alone and it's fine, it's totally fine. We love each other, we support each other in it all, she's my person and I'm hers..of course there are messy feelings on both sides that can be difficult but we are sensible adults who have a 20 yr friendship and the ability to really empathise and be compassionate with each others experience. I'm very lucky and it's definitely not like that with everyone, but my point is it doesn't have to be a battle of mothers vs non mothers or a misery competition.

This. This is excatly how my friendships are mothers / non-mothers. I admit though i actually think this is rare and can Be achieved when you have gone through alot with someone - my mum friend who is like this I have friends for 20 years too - so I think there is something in that

@Butchyrestingface

You have everything, she has nothing.

This literally sums up in a nutshell what some women (and men) think about women who don't have/can't have kids.

Agreed.

I had one message me once last year out of the blue

‘I just feel so sad for you - you are desperate for a husband and children but you cannot ever seem to find it. Everyone else can. It must be devasting for you’.

I will never forget it.

@Pumasonsatsumas

You have everything, she has nothing. You can afford to be generous and let this go.

Such an unbelievably depressing comment.

[quote LuckySantangelo35]@Clarabe1
Apparently so! You can have a life full of fun, friendships, a gorgeous house, an amazing partner, nice car, pets, lovely family, fulfilling well paid career, mind blowing travel and holidays, relaxation, hobbies, etc etc but none of that counts as anything!
Unless you have kids you have “nothing” 🤷‍♀️
Surely no one in real life actually thinks like that?![/quote]
They do. I have met plenty and have countless examples. See above

The same woman from text above found out an aquaintance had cancer and the first thing she said was ‘well she wont be able to have kids anytime soon’. I kid you not.

Trippingslippingx1 I hope you blocked this person. That's incredibly rude. Unbelievable.

@Trippingslippingx1
Disgusting. I’m so sorry you’ve been subjected to such shite.

You are going to loose her as a friend if you carry on, she hasn’t done anything wrong by carrying on with her daily life. You ask what she’s doing, she tells you then you get pissed off?
I think you need to speak to your partner if you are feeling overwhelmed.

@Trippingslippingx1. Horrendous. Was she drunk?

Easily believable though, just going on the amount of women on THIS thread so eager to impute soul-crushing, jealous angst to a woman simply because she sent a friend a photo of herself in the bath quaffing wine and advised she couldn't babysit as she was going for a manicure.

Stop replying to those messages. When she realises nobody gives a shit she will stop.

[quote Butchyrestingface]@Trippingslippingx1. Horrendous. Was she drunk?

Easily believable though, just going on the amount of women on THIS thread so eager to impute soul-crushing, jealous angst to a woman simply because she sent a friend a photo of herself in the bath quaffing wine and advised she couldn't babysit as she was going for a manicure.[/quote]
Nope. The comments about me being desperate for a husband and children were at 11am on a Sunday. She made worse comments than that.

Alot of people think like that. It is just society - even if they pretend not to. I am very careful with who I let have access to me now.

@TheRealistBub

Stop replying to those messages. When she realises nobody gives a shit she will stop.

So ignore any message where the friend talks about her life and what she's been up to, but I'm assuming she shouldn't ignore the messages where her friend has been checking in on her and offering to babysit?

@TheRealistBub

Stop replying to those messages. When she realises nobody gives a shit she will stop.

@TheRealistBub But OP does give a shit though. She’s jealous. She’s admitted as such. Which you’d know if you read all her posts.

I had this situation with my sister. It was really painful and difficult between us for a few years, but we got through it. We had an agreement to forgive each other continuously and assume the painful jabs were going both ways. Also, I would confront every comment that seemed deliberately unkind. For example, I would have said, "I have a life too." Just to highlight to her what she was saying, because in my sister's case it was mostly thoughtlessness. It was definitely worth it for us and our relationship is better than ever. She's a wonderful aunt. A sister is different though, there's no getting away like there is for friends.

@Doona. One of my DH’s sisters is abit like this, although it’s weird, because now that we have teenagers and are able to go out more, etc., she seems to be slightly meh about it.

I think she enjoyed having the fun life while we were knee deep in nappies and somewhat resents the fact that we’re no longer at that stage. There’s no pleasing some people. 🤣