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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To confront a friend who is showy about not having kids?

476 replies

fmac2987 · 12/03/2022 10:41

I have a 2 year old DD and am expecting our second in 8 weeks.

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children.

Its not like I had it easy. 4 losses followed by IVF and we were lucky enough to be successful with IVF, and even luckier still to be having another. But I am struggling hard with the terrible twos and perinatal depression and she knows it.

Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) but I feel like its salt in the wound right now.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

I really don't know how to manage this.

Is it unreasonable to back away from this weird situation?

OP posts:
CounsellorTroi · 13/03/2022 08:12

CounsellorTroi
And notice as well how men are never called childless or child free.

I think men who are upfront and open about not wanting to be fathers are judged. They are seen as immature, commitment phobic, shallow.

Not at all, men get a free pass.

They really don’t.

JammyCandy · 13/03/2022 08:20

Whatever the reasons for her behaviour sounds like you’re no longer compatible as friends

Gobbles · 13/03/2022 08:36

[quote BigOlDingleSlinger69]@LuckySantangelo35

And another example of the attitude I’m talking about.

Childless isn’t offensive - neither is child free. However some few people that didn’t have children or want them where so offended by the term childless they say a different word for the same exact expression.
These are the people who will defend the friend no matter what.[/quote]
Hasn't everyone who defended the friend, just been proved right by OPs updates?

OP has admitted she is jealous, and that her friend has offered to help etc however hasn't been available at all times because she's had appointments such as manicures, massages etc. and how this has made OP jealous.

Anyone defending the friend has just stated that she is just going about her life. She is not being malicious. OP has now confirmed this is the case.

I'm really unsure what your point in all of this is. You are coming across as strongly invested in airing grievances and judgements towards those without children. It appears you've lost, or even do not care, what the original AIBU was about, as you've become so focused on belittling and cornering people without children. Seems a strange grievance to hold in my opinion.

DogsAndGin · 13/03/2022 08:46

So when you’re talking to her or ask her, ‘what are you up to?’ and she replies with the truth - she’s ‘in the bath enjoying wine’, you get mad?

Sorry, I don’t think she’s done anything wrong.

She’s had a very hard time conceiving and has made peace with having a childless life. I’m sure she continues to struggle with this, mentally. I don’t see why you can’t both support each other’s different situations.

PriamFarrl · 13/03/2022 08:46

@CounsellorTroi

CounsellorTroi And notice as well how men are never called childless or child free.

I think men who are upfront and open about not wanting to be fathers are judged. They are seen as immature, commitment phobic, shallow.

Not at all, men get a free pass.

They really don’t.

They don’t get a free pass but they don’t get as much judgement as women do.
LaChanticleer · 13/03/2022 08:50

I say to her often that being a parent is hard but the most rewarding thing ever and perhaps she needs to explore her hyper-focus on body image (ref the vagina comment).
I used to brush this off and think fair enough, each to their own etc but after a while it got under my skin because I felt she needed to perhaps not directly express these opinions to mums who are struggling as it’s just fucking insensitive and very annoying.

@Username500000000000 Have you ever stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, saying that being a parent is “the most rewarding thing ever” to someone who cannot conceive/carry a child is rather more than “annoying”?

See here, just here, is the sort of constant drip drip drip that childless women face. And you say you’re a friend Hmm

Minionbums · 13/03/2022 08:53

Actually, since reading your updates I think you’ve read her wrong. I think you’re in a bit of a dark place - understandably so - and have misread her. I do think you’re jealous - again, understandably so - but I don’t think she’s done anything wrong. I think it might be good for the two of you to get together face to face for a catch up, don’t ditch a friendship over this.

MichelleScarn · 13/03/2022 08:53

@DogsAndGin

So when you’re talking to her or ask her, ‘what are you up to?’ and she replies with the truth - she’s ‘in the bath enjoying wine’, you get mad?

Sorry, I don’t think she’s done anything wrong.

She’s had a very hard time conceiving and has made peace with having a childless life. I’m sure she continues to struggle with this, mentally. I don’t see why you can’t both support each other’s different situations.

Agree with this, also why does it seem to solely be on this friend to be the one who you have the issue with? Not your dh/dp to do be with kids while you go for manicure, do you judge your other friends with what they do with their time as much?
Original poster
fmac2987 · 13/03/2022 09:08

Agree with this, also why does it seem to solely be on this friend to be the one who you have the issue with? Not your dh/dp to do be with kids while you go for manicure, do you judge your other friends with what they do with their time as much?

To be honest, I think its more I don't have many friends with kids, I was the first one to have them and my main group of mates are still very much partying etc, so we haven't had a lot of common ground, and its hard to go out with friends like that when you're pregnant as you can't and definitely shouldn't participate in what they do / put in their bodies.

This friend is from a different circle, in my neighbourhood and is a touch more tame.

OP posts:
UnsuitableHat · 13/03/2022 09:11

What a pain in the arse. You could be honest with her that the showing off is a bit much (if she thinks this makes her jealous that's her prerogative), or just ignore her.

Gobbles · 13/03/2022 09:17

@fmac2987 and your partner? Is he able to help?

Your expectations of her are too high and unfair. There are clearly a lot of emotions here, that I'm sure go quite deep and are very complex. You've been through a lot. Please speak to a professional.

HardbackWriter · 13/03/2022 09:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Turningpurple · 13/03/2022 09:32

@UnsuitableHat

What a pain in the arse. You could be honest with her that the showing off is a bit much (if she thinks this makes her jealous that's her prerogative), or just ignore her.
She isn't showing off. Ops posts are worth a read. The woman just mentions her plans. And sends photos of herself in the bath. Which op could do and when she isn't pregnant she could have a bath and a glass of wine if she wanted.
CastleBeckett · 13/03/2022 09:37

@fmac2987 what about your DH? Can he mind your daughter for an afternoon every weekend between now and new baby arriving so you can have some time to yourself? You could even book a spa afternoon with your friend and reconnect.

BobbinHood · 13/03/2022 09:37

@fmac2987

Agree with this, also why does it seem to solely be on this friend to be the one who you have the issue with? Not your dh/dp to do be with kids while you go for manicure, do you judge your other friends with what they do with their time as much?

To be honest, I think its more I don't have many friends with kids, I was the first one to have them and my main group of mates are still very much partying etc, so we haven't had a lot of common ground, and its hard to go out with friends like that when you're pregnant as you can't and definitely shouldn't participate in what they do / put in their bodies.

This friend is from a different circle, in my neighbourhood and is a touch more tame.

So why are you upset with her, for sharing that she’s doing things you could also be doing (having a manicure, relaxing in the bath) but are choosing not to, rather than being upset with the friends who are doing things you definitely couldn’t be (drunk and clubbing)?
LuckySantangelo35 · 13/03/2022 09:51

@CounsellorTroi

CounsellorTroi And notice as well how men are never called childless or child free.

I think men who are upfront and open about not wanting to be fathers are judged. They are seen as immature, commitment phobic, shallow.

Not at all, men get a free pass.

They really don’t.

@CounsellorTroi They might not get a free pass eg like you say they may be seen as immature but they deffo don’t have to cope with the same challenge and denigration that women do. Even just looking at the language to describe an unmarried child free man “bachelor” the equivalent for a woman being “spinster”. It’s not the same. Women are deffo judged more harshly for being unmarried, child free etc than what men are.
LuckySantangelo35 · 13/03/2022 09:57

@Username500000000000

Is child rearing THE most rewarding thing ever?

If you’re a nurse and nurse a sick person to health is that not rewarding? If you’re a scientist helping to find a cure for cancer is that not rewarding? If you’re a counsellor and you help someone to resolve their past trauma and live a better life is that not rewarding?

Statements like that what you made to your friend and crass and untrue. Child rearing is just one of many rewarding things a person can do with their life. I’m not defending her talk of ruined vaginas etc but you’re not entirely innocent in the harmful relationship you and your friend have.

Ginger1982 · 13/03/2022 10:33

@Username500000000000

I have a friend who makes comments like this sometimes. She will say things like ‘I would never have children because it could ruin my relationship my worst imaginable life would be to become a single mum’ (I’m a single mum). I understand that could be a fear of hers. She also says she doesn’t want to ruin her ‘beautiful vagina’ by having kids and I find it grating because it seems cruel to mock women who have given birth and assume they all look like a train wreck down there. I say to her often that being a parent is hard but the most rewarding thing ever and perhaps she needs to explore her hyper-focus on body image (ref the vagina comment). I used to brush this off and think fair enough, each to their own etc but after a while it got under my skin because I felt she needed to perhaps not directly express these opinions to mums who are struggling as it’s just fucking insensitive and very annoying.
You're as bad as she is with your 'most rewarding thing ever' comment.
MabelsApron · 13/03/2022 12:48

The “most rewarding thing ever” thing, oh my days. I don’t tell strangers that I’m infertile so when they ask I just say I don’t have kids, and the amount of women who’ve gone, “oh what a shame, it’s the best job/most rewarding thing there is!”.

I’m sure many of them wouldn’t say it to someone they knew couldn’t have them but that expects us to tell everyone we meet about our medical traumas. I’m not defending what the woman said about vaginas obviously but can’t parents (mothers, let’s be real, men don’t do this) just enjoy the “most rewarding experience ever” and leave us inferior beings alone?

NoSquirrels · 13/03/2022 12:54

its fair enough to share things about her life, and it's probably not normal to feel triggered by it, but I decided to back away a bit and she noticed I wasn't replying as much, so I replied back to say I'm struggling a bit as you know and I do find it hard to see all these fun things that I would love to do but aren't able to, which is when I got the jealous because she has a life comment.

And you could have replied - “You know what, friend, I AM a bit jealous! I totally am, and I know it’s irrational and I’m so conscious of not going on about how hard my life feels with pregnancy and toddler and stuff that I’ve come across all distant and jealous. I’m sorry.”

Bunty55 · 13/03/2022 13:01

@fmac2987

I have a 2 year old DD and am expecting our second in 8 weeks.

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children.

Its not like I had it easy. 4 losses followed by IVF and we were lucky enough to be successful with IVF, and even luckier still to be having another. But I am struggling hard with the terrible twos and perinatal depression and she knows it.

Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) but I feel like its salt in the wound right now.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

I really don't know how to manage this.

Is it unreasonable to back away from this weird situation?

Showing off is a way of deflecting how she really feels and if you can't work that out then you are not a good friend at all
LuckySantangelo35 · 13/03/2022 13:04

@SecretSquirrel111

Agreed!

Just admit it! Especially if you want to salvage this friendship. Admitting it doesn’t mean you wish your kids had never been born or is somehow disloyal to them.

whumpthereitis · 13/03/2022 13:14

Instead of owning your jealousy, you’ve made her responsible for it. As if by sharing her day to day life she’s forced you to feel like this. She hasn’t, she has literally just done what friends do and shared what she’s up to.

I understand you’re struggling but that’s not her fault. She has helped you previously, and she’s been a sounding board to you as well. You can’t expect a friendship to go all one way. It’s unreasonable to expect her to only be there for you 100% whilst communicating nothing about her own life. She’s not your therapist. It sounds like you’ve been putting a lot on her, and she’s snapped when you saw fit to ‘confront’ her about daring to share what she’s doing. Frankly, I bet she finds it exhausting. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’ve lost this friendship, OP. People can only give so much, and they can only take so much.

Kjpt140v · 13/03/2022 17:38

She's hurting.

dcthatsme · 13/03/2022 17:47

Having had to deal with infertility, it's likely very hard for your friend to sympathise with the problems you are having with your pregnancy and toddler at the moment. She would probably give her right arm to be in a position to be struggling with these things. Because you are right in the thick of it, it's very hard for you to understand how painful or frankly impossible it might be for her to be able to support you through your difficult time. She probably is trying to convince herself that a bath with a glass of wine is a substitute for stress and exhaustion from having young children. It's not! Your time to have wine in the bath will come again. The exhaustion of young children will pass. I hope you guys find a way to keep your friendship going if there is enough love and affection still there. Otherwise you might take a break from each other and reconnect further down the line - or not at all. I remember when I was struggling with infertility for many years not being able to relate to friends who were exhausted, sleep and time-deprived.