To not fit in because I'm working class

[Shadowmallow]

I'm from a working class background and I grew up with little money. I did very well academically and managed to go to a top uni and get a good degree, despite not feeling like I belonged. I've worked hard for 15 years to establish my career in a competitive industry with no financial support, which has resulted in a lot of stress and debt over the years.

I work in an industry that's generally full of wealthy, middle class people who dont seem to have any anxieties about life or financial limits (despite the salaries not being that much). I've recently started a new job and feel really out of place, like I do at every job. My colleagues have very different lifestyles and conversation topics to me. Eg. House renovations, skiing holidays, private schooling, second homes in Europe. I'm 36 and 'still' rent a small flat with a friend, which seems to surprise and provoke pity amongst my colleagues. Most had property bought for them/got deposits from their parents years ago and speak like this is standard practice. I rarely go on holidays and don't have any expensive hobbies as I've been trying to save for a house deposit for many years.

To get to this point in my career I've really struggled financially and mentally and I'm pretty tired. I dont feel like im seen on the same page as everyone else at work and think it also affects my career progression. I just wonder if I can ever belong here.

In the nicest way, I doubt many people notice, I think it may be more your perception/insecurities. I come from a working class background and definitely sound like it when I speak, but I haven't been made to feel I don't fit in by anyone middle class. Just be yourself, class doesn't matter.

I have noticed a real change in this area over the years. I think there is a huge amount of fakery going on from some areas.

I was at a very swanky dinner with a guy who came from a very provincial, W/c area. The university we went to had a chalet in the south of France and he mentioned it. I have spent time in the region and first visited it on a school trip at 16. I didn’t visit the chalet when at university.

This guy made a real point about travel yet I am widely travelled, too. My point is that there are quite a few people who I would say come from ordinary backgrounds who I feel are leveraging themselves up by putting an inordinate focus on what they have done as adults against what they perceive other w/c people haven’t done. I even got this from an ex and I consider it a form of negging. It’s an attempt to trip you up.

Some of these people you meet might not be as m/c as you think. Anyone who makes another person feel insecure about their background is not as secure or as educated as I think, and certainly lacks class.

But I would say, in your situation, to have a few tricks up your sleeve to stop it feeling so raw and personal so that you can get on with your work.

Remember, the more time you spend worrying about this, the weaker you become. For some, you are competition and I think perhaps you may have thought that the battle was won when you went to university. I think , in the m/c world, where you now are, it’s ongoing🙂

You have to let it go. I have been in the same situation, and looking back can see how much grief I caused myself. It is true you dont have the same advantages your colleagues had. But what is important is what you do and what you want. Not what they did or do.

I remember being in a very upper working environment, I was temping for the Chairman (it was the 1970s) and a very posh, snide, ugly bint turned to me and snapped her fingers and told me to close the drawer of her desk that she had just opened (she was sitting at the desk). That’s the level of entitlement and privilege you sometimes have to deal with. I told her to go f*ck herself.

That might have happened in the '70s but not now!

What is your point?

@Tulipomania

That might have happened in the '70s but not now!

What is your point?

Are you talking about @Malibuismysecrethome

I rather like her story and think that yes it is pertinent to this thread

It’s a really hard thing to deal with. The people you are describing are upper middle class or upper class and that is not an easy world to join, so you either go hell for leather and try and join, or make a point of positioning yourself as the different one, or just bob along not getting too involved - any of which are fine, as long as you are happy with it.

It sounds like you’ve gone for the latter and you aren’t very happy with it. So what would you like to happen? Would you want to find a way to be comfortable in this world on your own terms, or pivot your career a bit.

It also sounds like you need to earn more, Assuming you’re in publishing or similar is there scope to do that? In which case is there a mentoring scheme you could get on? And would you consider working with a counsellor to work out how to handle yourself?

Or, take a look at an organisation like career shifters to figure out how you might switch careers using the skills you’ve got up till now. Career coaches can also be good, but expensive.

Did she actually tell you the holiday cost £40k?

How frightfully vulgar

I asked, she's nice & very open about her lifestyle. Ive never been to the Maldives & knew it would be a luxury holiday so wanted a cost idea. She didn't know the individual price just the total approx cost

But telling people how much holidays / kitchen refits cost isn't... classy!

Who claimed that it was?

Although I don't subscribe to the MNs view that someone who talks about money is automatically a degenerate!

OP, it doesn't surprise me a jot that you work in publishing! I am also someone from a working class background who works in publishing, though very much of the less glamourous side (academic books) and I am well enough established to be in an OK paying middle management role. It took me a long time to get there, though, via a RG uni and a variety of crap paying jobs (all.in less glam areas)

Publishing definitely has a diversity issue (not just in race, but also class, disability and a variety of other areas my hands are too tired to type) which is hideously obvious. I have met a lot of the types you talk about over the years, but there are a lot of people like us in non-trade publishers-- definitely.more than you think.

It really, really sucks and it's an issue we need to resolve. Such a skilled workforce should receive better compensation to help level the playing field and diversify the workforce markedly.

@Bellalastrasse although I recognise what you are saying, there are plenty of upper middle-class people who are the real thing and happy to exclude and subtly put others down who are not the same.

OP, have you posted this before? I seem to recall a very similar thread, down to the examples given.

I have an understanding of how you feel. I did a masters straight after my degree where I could compete academically but I was one of about three out of 45 on the course who didn’t go to private school. I never felt I fit in and it put me off from perusing a career in that field. When the scrap for graduate scheme jobs started, I didn’t get involved and I took a job in local government and suddenly I was among loads of people who were just like me. In 15 years I’ve not encountered anyone I couldn’t get along with on some level, I’m happy and comfortable at work and don’t have any regrets.

As others have said there’s no reason why you shouldn’t carry on doing what you’re doing, you’ve earned the right to be there but if you do decide otherwise then there could be other options for you where you’ll feel happierx

I can echo your experiences and background, same working class (probably lower class actually since my mum was a single mum on benefits with 5 kids in a council flat), I received a decent state school education, top university and reputable graduate job in a competitive industry. And I'm from a mixed race heritage.

Yes I did not fit it with the MC/ UC, trust fund babies crowd (at work), I am / was completely polar opposite, but I took it by the bullocks and owned it. It gave me the best life experience education and nurturing could ever offer - international travel, explorations, adventures, tastes, experiences, arts, culture, history, reading, broadening my horizon, meeting people from all walks of life. My working class/ secondary school friends as still stuck in rut, with the same mentality and behavior as their parents. I have been sensible with money too, and did not get any support to own a property by my 30s. If anything the experience with MC people will definitely enable a better life and privilege for my children (as I am now married with children to a MC man). At first I was bit of a novelty with my MC work colleagues and friends but it passes once you become more acquainted to the new norm.

Ha I knew it would be publishing! You're a trouper to have done so well with those salaries in (I presume) London. I admire your persistence but I couldn't be doing with it. I'm a writer and have experienced the industry from that side. Also have lovely SIL who works in publishing. It is like a different world though; I was looking at a job ad the other day for head of non-fiction at one of the major houses and was shocked at what it paid for the skills demanded at that relatively senior level; really brings it home that the people doing those jobs must largely be those who can already afford to.

In my opinion, if you have to work for all your income in order to afford to live, you're working class.

I really don't agree with that; by that definition I would be working class and I'm not. I come from a broke-arse culturally middle class family and to call myself working class would be appropriate in my view.

Trooper! Sorry, sleep-deprived.

Even the Tory government are recognising the need to level up.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻‍♀️🙈🤦🏻‍♀️🙈🤦🏻‍♀️😂😂😂

Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear. You actually think they have any intention of even attempting to do that?! Why on Earth would they?! 😆

I was scrolling through this thread with interest, wondering what career was exclusively middle class apart from the one working class OP. And when I got to this
"I work in publishing."
I was baffled - I also work in publishing and would say the majority of my colleagues are from a working class background. Perhaps you've just been unlucky with your workplaces, move somewhere else and you'll find a different crowd.

Do you still have a working class accent?

@GiraffesInScarfs

Even the Tory government are recognising the need to level up.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻‍♀️🙈🤦🏻‍♀️🙈🤦🏻‍♀️😂😂😂

Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear. You actually think they have any intention of even attempting to do that?! Why on Earth would they?! 😆

I know

I dont think they will- it will be a bastardised version, but I live in hope.

I think I understand where your coming from. Long story short, I'm also seen and judged differently at home and at work. My home town is quite deprived, I was the only one of my friends to go to university and get a professional job, so im constantly classed as the posh one, always getting comments about how they can't believe what I do etc. Although I've done well for myself, im always playing it down as hate the fuss that is made about it, I just want to feel normal etc. People have created this image of me being perfect etc, and is so hard to live up to, so when I do something wrong there's a big fuss made of it. My work is lovely and I get on with all my colleagues, however I do feel we live very different lives. I keep a lot of personal information to myself, and find it hard to engage in conversations. These are mainly due to our differences in likes and opinions. This has left me feeling like I have no real place of belonging as I don't fully fit in to either worlds.

I grew up in a working class area with a middle class parent and a working class one who has gone to university so my main experience going up we're working class but I did have a bit of middle class cultural fill in, visiting one set on grandparents, going to theatres etc

I carried on in education etc and even with my bit of middle class influence found it very hard, having gaps compared to other people's experiences., often feeling stupid, boring and ignorant

I ended up working in an industry with people from all over the world and eventually a different country

It is so much more relaxing if you / they can't meet and judge class and background based of all the little tells in accents, clothes, child hood experiences, holiday destinations etc and it really confirmed to me how much of that goes on

Sounds really tough. There are some practical steps you could take to secure progression.

Have you spoken about progression with your line manager? You might need to put yourself on his/her radar for progression.

You could ask for a more senior mentor or coach to coach you into your next role. At some point you would have the relationship with them that would allow you to broach the class issue and ask them for their perspective on it.

You’ve probably had to fight a bit harder than your colleagues for the things you’ve achieved so far and it sounds like that might have to continue. You certainly shouldn’t have to learn to ski or ride a horse to get a promotion.

If none of this works after a set time that you think is reasonable or achievable (eg a year) then maybe look for another company. Company culture will not be the same everywhere.

Actually ignore my previous advice… just read you work in publishing and also read other people’s perspectives on it. It sounds awful and doesn’t sound like you’ll ever earn a decent salary - I’d find a new career.

Everyone talking about OP moving publishing companies, is that even feasible? I'm an author and the whole book world is looking for a publishing job (although maybe once you're in you're in?)!! But op, kudos for the job you got and hopefully it'll get you a better paid job in the future (only if you want it of course!!!)