To not fit in because I'm working class

[Shadowmallow]

I'm from a working class background and I grew up with little money. I did very well academically and managed to go to a top uni and get a good degree, despite not feeling like I belonged. I've worked hard for 15 years to establish my career in a competitive industry with no financial support, which has resulted in a lot of stress and debt over the years.

I work in an industry that's generally full of wealthy, middle class people who dont seem to have any anxieties about life or financial limits (despite the salaries not being that much). I've recently started a new job and feel really out of place, like I do at every job. My colleagues have very different lifestyles and conversation topics to me. Eg. House renovations, skiing holidays, private schooling, second homes in Europe. I'm 36 and 'still' rent a small flat with a friend, which seems to surprise and provoke pity amongst my colleagues. Most had property bought for them/got deposits from their parents years ago and speak like this is standard practice. I rarely go on holidays and don't have any expensive hobbies as I've been trying to save for a house deposit for many years.

To get to this point in my career I've really struggled financially and mentally and I'm pretty tired. I dont feel like im seen on the same page as everyone else at work and think it also affects my career progression. I just wonder if I can ever belong here.

I'm in my 20s and currently experiencing the same thing in my first job since university. There are so many conversations at work I can't contribute to (traveling is nearly always discussed and I've never been abroad).

It really knocks your confidence and makes it hard to bond with colleagues, and I just feel like an outsider. Some people would just own it but I don't really want to open up about growing up in poverty, there's still a lot of shame around it for me.

One thing that I noticed when I started was for working from home equipment I had to pay for it out of pocket and then wait 4 weeks for it go through expenses so I could get reimbursed. For most of my life I simply would not have had money to spare for this and I think it's the type of thing nobody had even thought about as it just wasn't on their radar that some people don't have any disposable income

@alltheapples where did I say that I had received any financial gifts? I haven't. But even so, no-one has the same experiences anyway, and that's not even what I was trying to say (and I think you know that). What I'm trying to say is that plenty of middle class families give their kids £5k or £10k towards a house deposit, and that doesn't mean their kids then 'don't have to work' in order to live. Just that the task of saving up their house deposit was made a bit easier. That's a million miles away from people who spend their whole lives living off 'family money' and not having to worry about earning a proper income.

(Me and my DP saved up all of our house deposit. And we both had large student loads to go to university. We were fortunate enough to go when fees were only £3k and not £9k but still came out the other side with ~£20k debt each).

What I'm trying to say is that plenty of middle class families give their kids £5k or £10k towards a house deposit

It's a bit more than that

"64 per cent of parents who said they had offered financial assistance with the deposit, the average contribution amounted to £32,440."

"14 per cent of parents saying that they gave their grown-up children more than £50,000 towards their home."

@JudgeRindersMinder

You’ll probably find it easier to fit in if you remove the 5lb bag* of McCains from your shoulder

Does it make you feel better to direct an unnecessary, unpleasant dig at the OP?

I could have written your post and unless people have gone from abject poverty to somehow breaking through into the middle classes on intelligence and hard graft alone, it can be difficult to understand/sympathise.
OP, I was you and bit by bit things have improved. I carried on saving but only managed to buy when I met DH.
The thing you have to do is learn not to care.. others will always have more privilege than you. I take the mick out of my posher colleagues and they laugh at me.. we can still be good friends. You do have to stop feeling sorry for yourself, accept there are no handouts and keep striving for what you want

There are so many conversations at work I can't contribute to (traveling is nearly always discussed and I've never been abroad).

Can you initiate conversations?

Admittedly my first job from school was overwhelmingly working class, I grew up with an addict on a council estate and spent childhood being bullied for wearing hand me downs, not having the right clothing labels, never going on holiday, being horrible about how thin I was (my hair was also really thin and bad condition as looking back we were malnutritioned), just generally children know don't they. This wasn't an overly affluent area either so it wasn't out of the norm even. I studied for a degree before I left and my first job as a civvy was in the city- I couldn't believe I'd landed it but I do empathise as I felt embarrassed about now owning a house, having not travelled growing up etc; but I moved jobs about a year after and although many still grew up in affluent families we all get on well. I opened up for a social mobility workshop they were doing and people were really supportive and since then fuck it I've felt proud about how well I have done for myself. They're normal people too, and now that we are financially very fortunate I don't feel middle class at all either.

The middle class posters here need to realise that social class has long last effects. It doesn’t matter if you’re all on the same wage - MC people are given house deposits etc which means that they never have to worry about saving up for a house, car, house renovations etc. Mummy and daddy just throw money at them even when they’re adults.
Nope! We were mc. In college I lived off savings from the summers I'd worked in school and evening work from college. When I was stuck with rent I went to the college and the lady had your attitude- your parents have chosen not to help you, you qualify for nothing. My parents were mc because they bought cheaply in a nice area before house prices went up and my dad was an insanely good saver and worked 2 jobs. It didn't mean he had thousands to spare.

There are so many conversations at work I can't contribute to (traveling is nearly always discussed and I've never been abroad).
So ask them about their holidays and steer it towards places you'd like to go in the future or what you're gonna do your next day off or whatever

@stayathomer

The middle class posters here need to realise that social class has long last effects. It doesn’t matter if you’re all on the same wage - MC people are given house deposits etc which means that they never have to worry about saving up for a house, car, house renovations etc. Mummy and daddy just throw money at them even when they’re adults. Nope! We were mc. In college I lived off savings from the summers I'd worked in school and evening work from college. When I was stuck with rent I went to the college and the lady had your attitude- your parents have chosen not to help you, you qualify for nothing. My parents were mc because they bought cheaply in a nice area before house prices went up and my dad was an insanely good saver and worked 2 jobs. It didn't mean he had thousands to spare.

We were the same as you, worked from age 14 and saved up for house deposits/cars etc. My parents had very working class upbringings but went to night school whilst working in order to pull themselves out of it

We are pretty middle class so when we took our 3 children under 4 to Butlins I could not care less what people thought about that. May be the case I didn't care was because I was middle class. These are interesting issues.

Don’t try & move to an auction house or a magazine, those jobs don’t pay either.

I worked in publishing and I once actually silenced a room because there was chat about the South of France and I unthinkingly said, 'I've never been.'
Seriously, pin-drop moment.
It was clearly the default holiday for all the other new assistants in the room. For me, we either didn't have holidays at all or my parents saved up for a week in a caravan in Skegness.

Couldn't even imagine putting myself into a 'class' ! Seriously - be proud of your achievements and enjoy your life. Really, who cares what background people come from - it's not 'their' achievement it's their parents (if being well off is even 'an achievement'.

@blushi

I'm in my 20s and currently experiencing the same thing in my first job since university. There are so many conversations at work I can't contribute to (traveling is nearly always discussed and I've never been abroad).

It really knocks your confidence and makes it hard to bond with colleagues, and I just feel like an outsider. Some people would just own it but I don't really want to open up about growing up in poverty, there's still a lot of shame around it for me.

One thing that I noticed when I started was for working from home equipment I had to pay for it out of pocket and then wait 4 weeks for it go through expenses so I could get reimbursed. For most of my life I simply would not have had money to spare for this and I think it's the type of thing nobody had even thought about as it just wasn't on their radar that some people don't have any disposable income

I really sympathise with this. Better paid, senior staff are often really insensitive to junior staff's financial situation and backgrounds. There's no excuse for it. I have also felt ashamed.

It does get better/easier as you progress. I've always tried to make a point of helping junior staff feel welcome and not burdening them with work expenses for this very reason. Sorry your colleagues lack awareness. Not everywhere is like this.

The PPs saying 'oh but I didn't get a deposit from my parents!' are really helping make the point.

You might not have got 50k to buy a house, but had the privileged position to not have to worry about where your next meal was coming from because your parents couldn't make ends meet and were able to engage in education and attend universities that is out of reach for so many.

Even if you manage to pull yourself out of poverty, reference points can be so far out it's a huge barrier. Maybe check your privilege.

@lorking

I would say don't worry about it except the career progression. Do you think it's really holding you back?

I kinda know what you mean, I grew up mc but immigrant parents. It was only at uni I made friends with people who weren't 2nd gen immigrants & then I went to work & the vast majority of my colleagues were privately educated. I wasn't but a lot of people assumed I was.

The part of London I live in has gentrified massively & only the umc can afford it now. Sometimes I do feel out of place in conversations because although our income levels may be similar I don't have the 200k help to move up the ladder or the 50k gift for a new kitchen. A friend has just come back from a holiday in the Maldives with her parents which cost 40k. I definitely don't fit into that world & one you notice it you can't unsee it but Ive never thought it held me back n

But telling people how much holidays / kitchen refits cost isn't... classy!

@LizziesTwin

Don’t try & move to an auction house or a magazine, those jobs don’t pay either.

Worked on a national magazine for a few years, got promoted twice with no pay rises!

@lorking

I would say don't worry about it except the career progression. Do you think it's really holding you back?

I kinda know what you mean, I grew up mc but immigrant parents. It was only at uni I made friends with people who weren't 2nd gen immigrants & then I went to work & the vast majority of my colleagues were privately educated. I wasn't but a lot of people assumed I was.

The part of London I live in has gentrified massively & only the umc can afford it now. Sometimes I do feel out of place in conversations because although our income levels may be similar I don't have the 200k help to move up the ladder or the 50k gift for a new kitchen. A friend has just come back from a holiday in the Maldives with her parents which cost 40k. I definitely don't fit into that world & one you notice it you can't unsee it but Ive never thought it held me back n

Did she actually tell you the holiday cost £40k?
How frightfully vulgar 😉

@Shadowmallow when I started working as a secretary back in the 80s there was a £2k per annum difference between working in publishing/PR and working in the City. I couldn’t have afforded to work in the West End. No connections from my parents, I was the first to stay on at school. By the time I was 23 I was lending my dad money, it took him until I was 33 to pay back the £10k I’d lent him. You wouldn’t think that if you looked at me though, you’d have thought I was posh as my granny paid for me to have elocution lessons.

I find it very hard to believe that most of your colleagues had properties bought for them...

...amongst much of the other things you have said.

@CraftyGin I find it quite believable, all of my friendship group from uni have had houses bought for them without exception. One is just building a double storey extension on her house at 27 but works a pretty average job. Another didn’t like the neighbours of the house her Dad bought as a graduation gift, he bought her another and she rents the first out for income.

All of my husbands cousins have had houses purchased for them. SIL had a hobby farm bought for her, she’s never worked a day in her life and gets an allowance. It’s an entirely different world.

I worked with academics very early in my career and general conversation that wasn't directly work related was difficult, we had absolutely nothing in common. Nothing about our lives or lifestyles was the same, we didn't watch the same telly, go to the same places, eat the same food ....

Damehelena, loads of people have never been to the South of france

I don't know anyone who had a house bought for them or was given a large deposit and I am from a middle class family and so are all my friends. Cars - yes but houses no

But telling people how much holidays / kitchen refits cost isn't... classy!

See I don't agree with this. I will often talk with my friends about how much these things cost - but they are all in the same position as me financially so it's just a factual conversation. When someone is earning substantially less I probably wouldn't but I have no issues talking about how much someone's kitchen cost