To think history will judge the U.K. over ukraine

[Letshaveablackcelebration]

I am so ashamed at how the U.K. is the only country in Europe effectively closing its doors to Ukrainian refugees. These are mostly women and children fleeing a country that has collapsed in the space of 2 weeks. A maternity hospital was bombed yesterday.

The rest of Europe is opening its arms and helping in every way it can but the U.K. had pretty much slammed the door, made it as difficult as possible to come. The U.K. signed the refugee convention in the 50’s that said that people fleeing war don’t need tons of paperwork and yet that’s exactly what they are asking people for.

I feel so embarrassed when everyone else is helping that we are doing nothing- we are an outlier in Europe.

I hate what this country has become under this disgusting government. I see so many posts on social media or brits wanting to do more.

It's the Tories. What else do you expect?

And the idiots keep voting for them

I agree about the IRA thing my Dad said he got a lot of verbal abuse as a young Irish man in 1970,s Manchester There will always be ignorent people though

That's the outright abuse. The low level xenophobia from people who would be appalled at the suggestion they are racist or xenophobic is very wearing and very prevalent.

On the plus side, two Scottish lads drove over to the Ukraine to rescue people. They have now made it back to the EU with an Irish medical student amongst the people they have rescued. www.irishtimes.com/news/world/ukraine-crisis/two-irish-students-fleeing-ukraine-reach-safety-of-eu-1.4822630

@Willyoujustbequiet

But would you be prepared for your child not to have a school place because 3000 refugee children had arrived in your city?

Someone asked me why should my child have precedence for a dental appointment over a refugee and I know where that sentiment is coming from. But honestly, when push comes to shove I suppose I do want my child to have access to dentists and to schools and you cannot fit a gallon into a quart pot.

Can schools to house an influx of 100,000 children-a figure from last night's Question Time-be built quickly. If they can, well and good but somehow I can't see it.

I'm in an area where children are on waiting lists for secondary school places and I've seen other posters worried about this too and an extra 100,000 isn't going to ease that is it?

But yes, if I'm honest I want my child to have a school place and see a doctor and dentist without adding to the outrageous waiting times that are already here.

My heart says of course 100,000 children should be allowed to be here but my head doesn't want my own child to be disadvantaged. It seems I'm in a minority with worrying about it though.

I also don't get the self loathing and self abasement of posters for their own country.

If I was so ashamed of where I lived, I wouldn't stay because that would make me loath myself even further.

We don't loath our country. We loath the idiots who keep getting voted in. Repeatedly.

@LondonWolf

And as ever I do wonder, if we are such a racist, mean spirited, backward nation, just why so MANY immigrants want to come here in preference to so many other countries they could get to more easily?

They don't. Compared to other countries we really don't have many.

www.unhcr.org/refugee-statistics/download/?url=Lo6o2h

Someone asked me why should my child have precedence for a dental appointment over a refugee and I know where that sentiment is coming from. But honestly, when push comes to shove I suppose I do want my child to have access to dentists and to schools and you cannot fit a gallon into a quart pot.

That was me, and you misread or misunderstood. I asked if you think your child should have precedence over a polish child, not a refugee. Because Poland is not at war either, but there are more than a million refugees there already. Do you think they should be staying there, "clogging up" Polish schools? If so, why?

in WW2, schools were opened in stately homes. At the moment, Russian Conservative donors have empty stately homes here. Some of the Ukrainian women will be teachers. Why can't it be done?

@Nutellaonall

Everyone needs to do their bit. But I think it should be related to population density across Europe. The UK is one of the most densely populated countries in the EU. If you count just England it is the most densely packed country in the EU second only to Malta.

Historically The UK has always welcomed immigrants with open arms clearly. That is something to be proud of.

I would like some forests and green spaces for my childrens future also. I guess it is a balance.

LOL. No it hasn't! You clearly don't have knowledge of British policy if that's what you think...

[quote TristramBrandy]@Willyoujustbequiet

But would you be prepared for your child not to have a school place because 3000 refugee children had arrived in your city?

Someone asked me why should my child have precedence for a dental appointment over a refugee and I know where that sentiment is coming from. But honestly, when push comes to shove I suppose I do want my child to have access to dentists and to schools and you cannot fit a gallon into a quart pot.

Can schools to house an influx of 100,000 children-a figure from last night's Question Time-be built quickly. If they can, well and good but somehow I can't see it.

I'm in an area where children are on waiting lists for secondary school places and I've seen other posters worried about this too and an extra 100,000 isn't going to ease that is it?

But yes, if I'm honest I want my child to have a school place and see a doctor and dentist without adding to the outrageous waiting times that are already here.

My heart says of course 100,000 children should be allowed to be here but my head doesn't want my own child to be disadvantaged. It seems I'm in a minority with worrying about it though.[/quote]
Where does the 100,000 figure come from? They've just said on the radio there have been 18k applications for visas and presumably, they are not all children. I would think the majority would want to stay nearby in the hopes of going home at some point.

@Brainwave89

Reading some of the comments on this thread with considerable disappointment. Most of these refugees will be women and children. There is support for hosting them. their position is dire. My spare room is available. I cannot in conscience act differently.

Not everyone is lucky enough to have spare room, so many families in overcrowded accommodation.

I despise the virtual signalling of "welcome to stay at my spare room" types. 🙄

@QuentininQuarantino

Someone asked me why should my child have precedence for a dental appointment over a refugee and I know where that sentiment is coming from. But honestly, when push comes to shove I suppose I do want my child to have access to dentists and to schools and you cannot fit a gallon into a quart pot.

That was me, and you misread or misunderstood. I asked if you think your child should have precedence over a polish child, not a refugee. Because Poland is not at war either, but there are more than a million refugees there already. Do you think they should be staying there, "clogging up" Polish schools? If so, why?

in WW2, schools were opened in stately homes. At the moment, Russian Conservative donors have empty stately homes here. Some of the Ukrainian women will be teachers. Why can't it be done?

I din't say "clogging up".

I asked what was to be done logistically and honestly admitted that I didn't want my child to suffer. If it came to it, then yes I would rather a Polish child went without an education than mine did.

I think a lot of others may feel the same but don't want to say it. I understand that because I am ashamed to acknowledge it to myself but my child is first and foremost to me.

Yes, if they can open stately homes as schools and employ more teachers and health care professionals then fine, that might be a solution. How many Ukrainian women would need to be teachers in order to teach 100,000 say if a class was 30-40?

The 100,000 figure comes from last night's Question Time.

Fucking hell - you despise people who say that they are going to offer their spare room to a refugee?! The poster didn't condemn people for not having a spare room - she just said she would offer hers. How mean-spirited to condemn it as virtue-signalling.

That's one of the worst things I've ever read on Mumsnet.

It refers to a likely final number-not to how many have already applied.

@liliainterfrutices

I haven't said anything about spare rooms!

trsitrambrandy - no - it wasn't you I was responding to. It was narcdad.

Well, @narcdad, you’re a delight, aren’t you.

Well, the situation with refugees is a total shitshow, not really surprising with Priti Patel in charge, but imo the country that history will judge is Germany.

They made themselves hugely reliant on Russian gas- totally unnecessarily choosing to get rid of their nuclear power abilities. They refused to let other countries send equipment and weapons to Ukraine across their territory and airspace despite Putin building up huge numbers of troops on the Ukrainian border, becoming increasingly threatening and western intelligence clearly showing he had belligerent intentions. When they did finally send some equipment to Ukraine it was a few thousand helmets.

They opposed sanctions and opposed Russia being cut out of the Swift banking system, indeed they are still opposing sanctions on Sberbank.

So, yes, I think Germany have played a pretty appalling role in this crisis.

[quote loutoofoo]@AllOfUsAreDead are you purposely being dense? The last election 22 percent voted for Tory's in Scotland - Scotland hasn't voted for a Tory government since 1959. Yet here we are because of what ENGLAND wanted. There may be Tory MPs but the majority of Scotland don't want them! God get me out of the UK! [/quote]
Are you? Never said Scotland likes them, I said some in Scotland still vote for them, and 22% is actually pretty high for a country/party that hates them. But it is just the snp voters who say that of course and they would. They prefer snp. I don't like either, both are as useless as each other. No point anyone saying though that only England voted them in as its not true. We all did.

Really when you think about it, voting snp is a wasted vote. They will never get in. You're better off picking Labour or lib dem if you don't want tory.

I despise the virtual signalling of "welcome to stay at my spare room" types. 🙄

I don't despise them but I don't believe most of them and those who would put their money where their mouth is - good for them - will be in a very privileged position that allows this to be an option for them.

@MrsEdnaWelthorpe

Well, the situation with refugees is a total shitshow, not really surprising with Priti Patel in charge, but imo the country that history will judge is Germany.

They made themselves hugely reliant on Russian gas- totally unnecessarily choosing to get rid of their nuclear power abilities. They refused to let other countries send equipment and weapons to Ukraine across their territory and airspace despite Putin building up huge numbers of troops on the Ukrainian border, becoming increasingly threatening and western intelligence clearly showing he had belligerent intentions. When they did finally send some equipment to Ukraine it was a few thousand helmets.

They opposed sanctions and opposed Russia being cut out of the Swift banking system, indeed they are still opposing sanctions on Sberbank.

So, yes, I think Germany have played a pretty appalling role in this crisis.

Honestly i feel like clapping when I see actual facts when discussing political issues on this site and not emoting and breast beating.

"Honestly i feel like clapping when I see a chance to deflect and criticise another country rather than face up to our own government's conspicuous shortcomings"

There, fixed it for you Londonwolf.

Yes, if they can open stately homes as schools and employ more teachers and health care professionals then fine, that might be a solution. How many Ukrainian women would need to be teachers in order to teach 100,000 say if a class was 30-40?

Well, I'm imaginining if it happened here and my DCs class had to flee to another country. There are 30 of them, and of the Mums, 4 of us are teachers. That would also free the other 26 Mums up to work, maybe there would be some dentists among them. Just brainstorming, but it isn't ridiculous, and we've had to do drastic temporary things in wartime before. And they're having to in Poland and Moldova.

There, fixed it for you Londonwolf.

Literally forcing people to think what you think. Interesting 🤔