To think history will judge the U.K. over ukraine

[Letshaveablackcelebration]

I am so ashamed at how the U.K. is the only country in Europe effectively closing its doors to Ukrainian refugees. These are mostly women and children fleeing a country that has collapsed in the space of 2 weeks. A maternity hospital was bombed yesterday.

The rest of Europe is opening its arms and helping in every way it can but the U.K. had pretty much slammed the door, made it as difficult as possible to come. The U.K. signed the refugee convention in the 50’s that said that people fleeing war don’t need tons of paperwork and yet that’s exactly what they are asking people for.

I feel so embarrassed when everyone else is helping that we are doing nothing- we are an outlier in Europe.

I hate what this country has become under this disgusting government. I see so many posts on social media or brits wanting to do more.

Lets be honest whether its Corbyn suggesting the russians should be invited to investigate the skripal poisoning or tories taking russian money or european governments going ahead with nordstream 2 DESPITE the annexation of Crimea and Donbass (Ukraine has effectively been at war for 8 years already) we have enough idiots to thank for the current situation. Even Biden was running around trying to secure oil and gas from other countries to fill the gap for the europeans while the europeans did pretty much nothing.

The idea that Britain is uniquely bad is am odd one to me, if you look at what countries have actually done the UK is doing ok DESPITE all of the above shamefulness from the political establishment, despite the mess we are making with the refugee situation. Given that the UK is pushing the hardest on SWIFT at the moment I don’t think the Russian government is feeling like they got their money’s worth.

I am definitely not saying that the UK is covering itself in glory all the time here but it would be good if people had a clear view of what we are and are not doing. There was a thread before lauding the EU response vs the UK - the level of misinformation was astounding, genuinely would believe no-one reads a newspaper.

@ClaudineClare

So did Scotland and Wales. It was what the majority of the entire UK wanted, don't try and say that certain areas didn't want them. The only area that doesn't have them actually is Northern Ireland

Your ignorance is really showing.

There are tory mps in Scotland and Wales, and even in areas they didn't win, they got a fair amount of votes. Its first past the post unfortunately, the majority wins and they got the majority. They'll continue getting it too. Where am I wrong?

I don't know the details for Scotland but in the Westminster elections, Labour won more seats than the Tories. We also have a Labour government here in Wales, which was re-elected last year with an increased share of the vote.

I'm not sure it's surprising is it? The government and media have demonised refugees for years and the UK have implemented a hard line approach, this is what people apparently wanted. We voted in a Tory party who are hardly known for their amazing humanitarian response, what did anyone expect?

I also agree with pp in regards to Russian money, its corrupt as anything. I fully disagree with how we treat refugees so obviously am disgusted by this but I'm shocked that people are shocked.

Are you more worried about our/reputation when travelling abroad in the future? Or are you genuinely concerned for the refugees fleeing a war torn country.
You come across as being more worried how you will be judged as a British citizen in the future rather than a humanitarian.
I have had a few days away from the news, my DH had a stroke on Friday so I’m afraid I’m a little more concerned about our immediate future.
My first thought on seeing the news re the refugee issue was that it was important not to allow people to abuse an immigration free for all. I have been horrified, recently after watching programmes about people who profiteer from disasters such as the Manchester Arena bombing and Grenville tower fire.
The UK is very much the preferred destination for refugees, possibly it’s a geographical thing. Like it’s residents having a bad dy of water between us and mainland Europe does give us a greater sense of security.

Forget history, the rest of Europe is already judging the UK on its response to Ukranian refugees.

@ClaudineClare

I don't know the details for Scotland but in the Westminster elections, Labour won more seats than the Tories. We also have a Labour government here in Wales, which was re-elected last year with an increased share of the vote.

Yes it's a labour government in Wales, but you still have 13 tory mps there. Just Labour is more preferred but they do still get votes. Scotland prefers snp, the government is snp, but we still have 6 tory mps. And when you look at the results in some constituencies, some of the votes were bloody close for it to swing to tory instead, or another party. But the most votes wins. I dunno how close the votes were for Wales though, whether Labour won easily in some constituencies or it was a close contest.

It's annoying, but they do have support.

I worry about the logistics of it.

No-one would refuse a child refugee shelter but last night on Question Time, it was said there will be a 100,000 child refugees coming to the UK.

Taking emotion out of it, where will the school places come from? It would mean at least 100 new large schools of 1000 pupil capacity each. And yet, we have had recent threads from posters complaining that they are having difficulty finding secondary school places.

Around here, I have not been able to get my child to see a doctor and dentist's appointments have to be made 6 months in advance.

How is all going to be managed?

So yes, we shouldn't turn away child refugees but where are they going to be educated?

@MsFogi

Forget history, the rest of Europe is already judging the UK on its response to Ukranian refugees.

Again such a typical Mumsnet response ,the rest of Europe is rather more concerned about Putin and what he will do next .

@Papertyger

Unfortunately I think history will judge NATO, the western democracies very badly indeed. We said after Hitler, never again. The endless endless rope we've given to Putin, entertaining him on the world's stage, giving him credibility.

He's done so much prior to Syria but at that point ,he crossed lines.

This monster is on all our shoulders.

Yes, this.

We knew Putn was an evil murdering dictator who hates democracy and the West. But we paid him $500mil/day anyway because oil and gas are convenient. And now he has lots of weapons. 🤦‍♀️

@OchonAgusOchonOh

Historically The UK has always welcomed immigrants with open arms clearly. That is something to be proud of.

Yeah. That's why my parents encountered "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" in London in the 1960's. They certainly felt welcome.

Welcome enough to stay though and bring up their families My Dad is also an Irish immigrant he was eleven when his parents brought him and his five siblings over from Ireland in the 1950,s. All the kids have done incredibly well for themselves in the " hostile " England and non of them went back to Ireland .

@FrancescaContini

It’s really really shameful. I’m embarrassed to be British when I see scenes of Ukrainian families in Calais who have been told to travel to Brussels or Paris to get a visa. Why do they need a visa?

Isn't it obvious? We can't just have thousands of people pouring into the country.

What about all the refugees from other war torn countries who would desperately love to come here? What makes these refugees special?

No-one would refuse a child refugee shelter Really?

news.sky.com/video/ukraine-war-nanny-who-has-been-living-in-britain-for-six-years-refused-entry-after-travelling-2-000-miles-to-evacuate-her-daughter-12560332

Tristam, how do you think Poland and Moldova, with a far lower GDP than us, are supposed to do it? Why does your child deserve to see a dentist sooner than a polish one?

@x2boys - Welcome enough to stay though and bring up their families

Nope. They went home as soon as they could and brought up their family in Ireland.

All the kids have done incredibly well for themselves in the " hostile " England and non of them went back to Ireland

The fact some did well does not excuse or negate the hostility. Children who grew up in England are much more likely to lose their accent and assimilate so less likely to be obvious targets.

I lived in London for a period in the 80's. While many people were lovely, I encountered outright hostility (e.g. I was told to fuck off home with the rest of the IRA). I also encountered low level xenophobia dressed up as "slagging" which, if you called it out, resulted in being accused of not having a sense of humour...

Of course we should do whatever we can for refugees needing our help. However, if there hadn't been so many illegal immigrants who should have stopped in the first country they arrived in, or 30-year old male 'child migrants', we would also be in a better position to accept a greater number of genuine refugees.

@OchonAgusOchonOh lets not pretend that all irish welcome english people either though and some don't experience what you have stated when visiting Ireland
No country is exempt from having bigots etc its foolish to think otherwise

@x2boys I know its only mumsnet you see this i think the average french / german doesn't give uk a second thought most days

@Rinatinabina please don't post rationally on here people will fall over themselves

Well not really my Dad was 11 and they came over from a town in cork ,they had a very strong accent ,he will be 80 in two months and he still has an accent
I agree about the IRA thing my Dad said he got a lot of verbal abuse as a young Irish man in 1970,s Manchester
There will always be ignorent people though
The vast majority of people don't blame Muslim people for Isis ,only a few ignorant idiots .just as most of realise that Putin is a crazy megalomaniac and most everyday ordinary Russians are horrified by gim

Have a day off

@AllOfUsAreDead are you purposely being dense? The last election 22 percent voted for Tory's in Scotland - Scotland hasn't voted for a Tory government since 1959. Yet here we are because of what ENGLAND wanted. There may be Tory MPs but the majority of Scotland don't want them! God get me out of the UK!

So much faux embarrassment for being british.

I think what muddies the waters is the issue we have of economic migrants who are claiming to be refugees, and actual refugees.

If you made every refugee stay in the country they first crossed into, those host countries would stop accepting refugees quite quickly. There needs to be a fair spread across all countries. We ALL need to fulfil our responsibilities to refugees.

@BeHappy91818

We are a tiny island that already has over 67 million people living on it with a huge homelessness problem.

How about we house all the people that live here first before welcoming more.

A lot of other countries are far bigger and don’t have remotely the same amount of people living on it already.

I'm pretty sure those getting bombed out of their country would much prefer to have being able to stay where they were rather than having to flee for their lives. It must be terrifying having to run not knowing if at anytime you'll get shot at, not knowing if at any point you and your family will get separated or if you'll even see them again. I'm pretty sure if I was fleeing for my life my first thought wouldn't be oh I'd best not go to England cos they have too many homeless people over there and I don't want to overcrowd it anymore. My first and only thought would be getting myself and my family to somewhere safe.