To think history will judge the U.K. over ukraine

[Letshaveablackcelebration]

I am so ashamed at how the U.K. is the only country in Europe effectively closing its doors to Ukrainian refugees. These are mostly women and children fleeing a country that has collapsed in the space of 2 weeks. A maternity hospital was bombed yesterday.

The rest of Europe is opening its arms and helping in every way it can but the U.K. had pretty much slammed the door, made it as difficult as possible to come. The U.K. signed the refugee convention in the 50’s that said that people fleeing war don’t need tons of paperwork and yet that’s exactly what they are asking people for.

I feel so embarrassed when everyone else is helping that we are doing nothing- we are an outlier in Europe.

I hate what this country has become under this disgusting government. I see so many posts on social media or brits wanting to do more.

Also if primarily visas are being issued on the basis of family connections I assume those families on the whole will be trying to fit their loved ones into their homes. If my sisters were fleeing a war in their home country I would get them into my house with their kids, if it meant we had to sleep like sardines then so be it.

Why is the UK a practical alternative?
It is 1500km and a ferry from Ukraine.
Is it because benefits will be easier and more generous and permanent?

No! Germany has good benefits for refugees too (maybe even better than the U.K.!) Why is there this myth that the benefits are better than some other European countries???

It’s because of the language. You can get back on your feet again quicker (and get off benefits!) if you can speak the same language as the country you’ve fled to. You can WORK. And maybe not just as a cleaner. Maybe in your field!

@BeHappy91818

We are a tiny island that already has over 67 million people living on it with a huge homelessness problem.

How about we house all the people that live here first before welcoming more.

A lot of other countries are far bigger and don’t have remotely the same amount of people living on it already.

We are indeed a tiny overpopulated island whose infrastructure can’t support its own ever growing population in my opinion. BUT people are dying.

During covid there was no homelessness- everyone was temporarily housed (in this LA in any case). Some people don’t want to be housed, they don’t want to live by the rules, often due to other factors such as drugs, alcohol, their employment, restrictions etc. Some are housed but the properties aren’t nice, it’s emergency accommodation and they have to stay there and bid on flats and houses or find private rentals. It’s too complex for this thread and yes, more needs to be done, more money is needed BUT and it’s a HUGE BUT it’s completely separate from people fleeing for their lives.

The lack of compassion on this thread is astounding. There for the grace of God … and all that! Let’s hope the U.K is never in this position eh?

It beggars belief to me that anyone can think the UK is handling the refugee situation well and can defend the Home Office in the approach it is taking. It seems to me that the right appears not to know what the left is doing especially at ground level ( and I don’t mean that in a political sense at all).
Far be from me to criticise a woman in a senior government position but Ms Patel is quite simply not up to the job and it would seem that others in the Home Office are not either. The arrangements ( if you can even call them that) that have been made in France for those wanting to cross the channel are an utter disgrace. Anyone that thinks they can defend these is defending the indefensible and I will be interested to hear what Ms Patel has to say in parliament later. No doubt she will absolve herself from all responsibility, plus she has form for telling lies so I’ll be taking everything she says with a pinch of salt.
Even accepting that some reports we see and hear about in the media may be biased I am truly ashamed that we as a country are showing ourselves to be so lacking in empathy and understanding for the position that those Ukrainian refugees who want to come to the UK. now find themselves in when other countries have been so much more welcoming. We may be able to talk the talk, but our actions let us down
Its all very well for those saying that the red tape surrounding visa applications needs to be complied with and that staff in the Home Office are working all hours to ensure this can be done speedily but as far as I can see whatever they have done so far hasn’t achieved the desired result.
Common sense tells me that the vast majority of the refugees wanting to join family in the UK are the elderly, children and woman with no ulterior motive other than they want to be safe, yet for some reason we are expecting them to jump through hoop after hoop to ensure this is the case.
Where is our compassion?

@Rinatinabina absolutely plus the whole process will be made much smoother by already having family here who speak the language and understand and can guide loved one through the system. I don't think many understand the psychological trauma that comes will being a refugee there are a whole set of issues on arrival in a new unfamiliar country. Settling people where they already having connections makes sense for everyone.

Yet this is the government you lot in England voted for.

Far be from me to criticise a woman in a senior government position but Ms Patel is quite simply not up to the job and it would seem that others in the Home Office are not either.

To be promoted in government now you have to be on the right side of the brexit argument, which has utterly poisoned British politics. In other words you must either truly believe that brexit was a good idea (very few senior politians do) or be prepared to pretend that you do. In other words you must either be incompetent or a liar. This explains the appalling mess in all other areas of politics.

The xenophobia and British exceptionalism is strong. The UK abandoned the Afgans, our shunning of Ukrainians will be an addendum to that. I do like the idea of housing refugees and homeless folk in properties belonging to Russian oligarchs.

Putin is a cunt and he looks like this .

I see the usual fallacy is being peddled of all refugees wanting to come to the UK ahead of anywhere else. Nigel Farage and his ilk really did a great job of spreading their lies. Here are a list of the top 25 refugee-hosting countries and guess what, the UK isn't on it! The only European countries on there are Germany, France and Sweden.
www.statista.com/statistics/263423/major-refugee-hosting-countries-worldwide/

Historically The UK has always welcomed immigrants with open arms clearly. That is something to be proud of.

Yeah. That's why my parents encountered "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" in London in the 1960's. They certainly felt welcome.

I see the usual fallacy is being peddled of all refugees wanting to come to the UK ahead of anywhere else. Nigel Farage and his ilk really did a great job of spreading their lies.

They were very well funded by Russia.

Putin is a cunt and he looks like this .

@jytdtysrht

The UK has taken some of the strongest measures and heavily encouraged other countries to do so as well, in pursuit of stopping Putin but without provoking WW3. So I don't think our efforts will be negatively viewed from that perspective. Our prime minister has spoken out far more strongly than others.

But
People struggle to get healthcare here, our NHS is literally bursting at the seams. It's undeniable that it's in total crisis. Every year people struggle with school places, classrooms are overcrowded. What about mental health services? People kill themselves before they can get help. Housing demand massively outstrips supply. I honestly do not think that we are the right place for refugees, despite the fact that I would want to have them come here and that they deserve to be able to come here.

Agree with this2nd paragraph, but the flip side is what's the answer for the refugees? Where do they go? Who takes them? There has to be a collective responsibility to help people fleeing from a war zone, and we must have an obligation to take them in, but I totally agree that this country is on its knees it terms of housing and resources. Maybe there should be a ban on foreign property investments, maybe people should only be allowed to own 1 home. That would free up a lot of housing for a start. But I think the current situation is dire whatever way you look at it.

I would like some forests and green spaces for my childrens future also. I guess it is a balance

Can you imagine it the other way round- your children are at risk of dying, but a country that could offer them safety shrugs and says ‘well yeah I’d LOVE to help, but you know- we need to preserve our green spaces too, it’s a balance isn’t it, am sure you get it’

People are always willing to rant about our Government not doing enough to help, but really your passing the buck to someone else to make yourself feeling virtuous.
Do you let the homeless put up a tent in your back yard, do you feed them and provide food. NO. But what you can do is provide money or help. Which is actually much better, as it helps more people to recover.
Paying towards a shelter just across a boarder with free food and clothing helps many, and allows them to return if possible to reclaim their life's.

"The UK and the USA has said they will no longer buy."

It's very easy for them to make a song and a dance about that to get votes though when they barely used any anyway, it distracts the common man from the fact Boris has received 2 million from oligarch since becoming PM. Some countries import up to 40% of energy form Russia, and have committed to getting rid of this reliance in an achievable timescale. Whataboutery doesn't work well when your government sells peerages to ex KGB...

There are enough Brits who voted for a party steeped in Russian corruption and anti immigrant rhetoric to get them into power. NABALT (Not all Brits are like that) but yes, history will judge us.

@Suzi888

Correct… people are dying and there’s lots of other option then the UK.

Like New Zealand.. the last I read NZ has so far refused to change its visa rules in response to the crisis.

@RoseGoldEagle

I would like some forests and green spaces for my childrens future also. I guess it is a balance

Can you imagine it the other way round- your children are at risk of dying, but a country that could offer them safety shrugs and says ‘well yeah I’d LOVE to help, but you know- we need to preserve our green spaces too, it’s a balance isn’t it, am sure you get it’

We can’t help everyone all the time. We are helping in other ways vastly. Sometimes we need to think of the people already in this country. The 67 million people here.

The UK record on military support is actually not bad. On refugees we have considerable catching up to do and in IMO this is not policy, it is simply a lack of competence. We need people with appropriate systems on the ground at a good range of hubs in Poland, Paris, Berlin and Romania. We need to provide transport to the hubs if required and we need to make sure we are clear on where refugees will go when they get to the UK. Most will stay with family, but I am happy to open my spare room as are many more- no coordination of this type is ongoing so far as I am aware.

@Jonjim

Why is the UK a practical alternative? It is 1500km and a ferry from Ukraine. Is it because benefits will be easier and more generous and permanent?

You really think that is going to be uppermost on someone's mind when they have just fled their country, leaving everything they have behind? Do you seriously think they are going to research which countries have the best benefits systems?

I am ashamed to live in country that has people who think like you in it.

@loutoofoo

Yet this is the government you lot in England voted for.

So did Scotland and Wales. It was what the majority of the entire UK wanted, don't try and say that certain areas didn't want them. The only area that doesn't have them actually is Northern Ireland.

Unfortunately though, they will get in again at the next election. So it's not like we will be rid of them any time soon.

My Uncle is Border Force and he's saying that already hundreds of "young men of fighting age" (ie the dinghy migrants) are turning up and claiming to be Ukranian. They're angry & entitled and fights are breaking out with genuine Ukrainians.

So it's a shit show, but that's partly why they're trying to keep it away from Calais and asking them to go to Paris etc.

This doesn't in any way excuse the paperwork shambles, by the way.

Reading some of the comments on this thread with considerable disappointment. Most of these refugees will be women and children. There is support for hosting them. their position is dire. My spare room is available. I cannot in conscience act differently.

@Bollindger

If your running away from a war, should you not stop in the nearest country and help be provided to that country to help you? Not cross many countries to get into the one that offers the most benefits to you. After all the is so much space in The EU to help settle people...

And the EU is accepting them. Given the numbers, it is not feasible, practical or humane for all the refugees to stay in the first country they arrive in. Ireland has already accepted over 2.5k, with the expectation that we will accept up to 100k. That is in a population of 5m.

This notion that the Uk provides amazing benefits is utter nonsense. I expect one of the main reasons illegal immigrants (note: I am not referring to refugees here) want to go to the UK is the lack of identity card which makes it very easy to work under the radar.

For refugees, things like language, family connections and so on will play a factor in where they want to go.

With refugees, they generally want to return home when the crisis is over so it is a temporary situation, unlike that of economic migrants who are moving for a better life and will remain long term. They want a safe place to stay where they can look after their families until they can return home.

So did Scotland and Wales. It was what the majority of the entire UK wanted, don't try and say that certain areas didn't want them. The only area that doesn't have them actually is Northern Ireland

Your ignorance is really showing.

Some have raised the matter of UK being full and lacking basic resources like schools, healthcare and housing. Therefore there is no room for anyone to get sanctuary.

So..... is that the fault of those seeking asylum? Or is it the result of bad Governance and lack of investment by such governments in a good quality of life for all, not just the few.

Life in the UK is dire for many of its citizens at the moment. But those with resources don't and won't notice.

So by their actions shall you know them I say. And as for racism, I do believe it is widespread, silently so maybe but it is there in spades. And I also believe that not everyone that voted for Brexit is racist, but every racist did vote for Brexit.