To think history will judge the U.K. over ukraine

[Letshaveablackcelebration]

I am so ashamed at how the U.K. is the only country in Europe effectively closing its doors to Ukrainian refugees. These are mostly women and children fleeing a country that has collapsed in the space of 2 weeks. A maternity hospital was bombed yesterday.

The rest of Europe is opening its arms and helping in every way it can but the U.K. had pretty much slammed the door, made it as difficult as possible to come. The U.K. signed the refugee convention in the 50’s that said that people fleeing war don’t need tons of paperwork and yet that’s exactly what they are asking people for.

I feel so embarrassed when everyone else is helping that we are doing nothing- we are an outlier in Europe.

I hate what this country has become under this disgusting government. I see so many posts on social media or brits wanting to do more.

@liliainterfrutices one of the worst things you've read 🙄 dear lord you've led a sheltered life, yes I hate and despise virtual signalling.

No narcdad - what I actually said was 'one of the worst things I've read on Mumsnet'. Please don't twist my words like that. Nobody would need to be sheltered to find what you said repugnant - just to have a vestige of human feeling.

@liliainterfrutices which is what I said "one of the worst things you've read"

Repugnant for having a view? Devoid of human feelings?
Nope just a realist, there is so much virtual signalling, great of that poster can offer a spare room, great that she has space and finances to support a refugee(s), I'm saying not everyone has spare rooms, many, many people already living in this country are in overcrowded and dismal accommodation, like I said before we can't save the world.

@MrsEdnaWelthorpe

Well, the situation with refugees is a total shitshow, not really surprising with Priti Patel in charge, but imo the country that history will judge is Germany.

They made themselves hugely reliant on Russian gas- totally unnecessarily choosing to get rid of their nuclear power abilities. They refused to let other countries send equipment and weapons to Ukraine across their territory and airspace despite Putin building up huge numbers of troops on the Ukrainian border, becoming increasingly threatening and western intelligence clearly showing he had belligerent intentions. When they did finally send some equipment to Ukraine it was a few thousand helmets.

They opposed sanctions and opposed Russia being cut out of the Swift banking system, indeed they are still opposing sanctions on Sberbank.

So, yes, I think Germany have played a pretty appalling role in this crisis.

Precisely, the UK’s response on refugees will be a footnote compared to the myopic western understanding (or lack thereof) of Russia. God the week before the invasion I think it was politico that was reporting that French diplomats were acting like the brits and the USA were overreacting to the troop build ups on Ukraines borders. I am actually really angry about this, the volume of weapons has massively increased but it’s mainly blocked off from kyiv because everyone was too late to respond.

I really really hope we fix our response to the refugees and that people will be able to join their families but I don’t think the UK is going to come off the worst on this.

I've written to my MP three times on this in the last week and a half. He has yet to respond to any of them so I will keep writing. It's absolutely shameful.

It makes me sad that so many posters on here are ashamed of their country. Yes, we are in a mess on the refugee front but that will be put right. However, the UK is doing an enormous amount to help Ukraine in many other areas.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/uk-how-helping-ukraine-weapons-support-britain-russia-invasion-explained-1490170

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/how-is-the-uk-helping-ukraine_uk_6218c526e4b03d0c803751

Posters seem to be trying to turn MN into an anti-Government propaganda machine with insults levelled at anyone who dares to disagree.

@Xiaoxiong

I've written to my MP three times on this in the last week and a half. He has yet to respond to any of them so I will keep writing. It's absolutely shameful.

Give him a chance to reply. Jesus Christ.

I'm pretty sure those getting bombed out of their country would much prefer to have being able to stay where they were rather than having to flee for their lives. It must be terrifying having to run not knowing if at anytime you'll get shot at, not knowing if at any point you and your family will get separated or if you'll even see them again. I'm pretty sure if I was fleeing for my life my first thought wouldn't be oh I'd best not go to England cos they have too many homeless people over there and I don't want to overcrowd it anymore. My first and only thought would be getting myself and my family to somewhere safe.

Exactly… and Ukraine doesn’t border the UK so the UK wouldn’t be your first thought.

Big difference between what I've read and what I've read on Mumsnet, so you're still twisting things.

And you didn't say anything about it being great that she could offer a room; you attacked her for 'virtue-signalling' 'despising' her for it.
Of course not everyone can offer a room, but don't attack those who can and are happy to do so.

@SirChenjins

We’ll, it’s what the Brexiteers voted for, innit? So we can control our borders and keep out the foreigners (although not the foreigners with dirty money, we’ll happily take them).

This Tory Government disgusts me - and anyone who votes for them is as morally bankrupt as they are.

Agree with this.

This is what Brexit-voters wanted.
Not that I agree with it at all

@liliainterfrutices

Big difference between what I've read and what I've read on Mumsnet, so you're still twisting things.

And you didn't say anything about it being great that she could offer a room; you attacked her for 'virtue-signalling' 'despising' her for it.
Of course not everyone can offer a room, but don't attack those who can and are happy to do so.

I'm not twisting anything I despise virtual signalling, I am not attacking anyone (not a great word to use given the subject matter, but just quoting the word you used) I have an opinion and I am entitled to it.

No, your right I didn't say great that they could offer a spare room in my original reply, however I used it now, my stance is still the same, you keep thinking I'm twisting things but I am quoting what you said.

But would you be prepared for your child not to have a school place because 3000 refugee children had arrived in your city?

They wouldn't not have a place because of refugees, they wouldn't have a place because our government is fucking shit and an international embarrassment and because people have been repeatedly voting in Tories for the last 12 years

@Rosehugger

But would you be prepared for your child not to have a school place because 3000 refugee children had arrived in your city?

They wouldn't not have a place because of refugees, they wouldn't have a place because our government is fucking shit and an international embarrassment and because people have been repeatedly voting in Tories for the last 12 years

Be fair. No one is running the country under an assumption that there has to be 100K unoccupied school places at any moment. This is ~15% of the total number of children born annually in the UK (so roughly going into the same school year).

@Xiaoxiong

I've written to my MP three times on this in the last week and a half. He has yet to respond to any of them so I will keep writing. It's absolutely shameful.

It's been a week and a half ,your mp might have more pressing matters to deal with .

[quote ThoseTallTrees]@Nutellaonall The UK has built on around 5% of its land. We are hardly “full”.[/quote]
We grow food on almost all of the remainder.

Posters seem to be trying to turn MN into an anti-Government propaganda machine with insults levelled at anyone who dares to disagree

It's always been like this but definitely got worse over the last 3-4 years or so. I think Twitter has had a huge influence - that level and manner of communication has trickled onto most popular forums and SM and even RL. Don't be sad about it though, just keep pushing back and see it for the ill informed swallowing and half baked understanding of current social justice "ideas" that most of the abuse and insults come from. The fact that you're willing to engage with their viewpoints without resorting to offensive insults and accusations of serious character defects because they don't agree with you, has already given you the moral high ground.

It's always been like this but definitely got worse over the last 3-4 years or so

Has it not crossed your mind at all that perhaps it is the government that has got worse over the last 3-4 years or so?

@SirChenjins and this is what some remainers chirp out every time , brexit was never going to keep out foreigners we have always taken refugee and asylum seekers and always had people from all over the world come to the uk to work and study not just the eu
I didn't vote either way but maybe actually speak to some real life people on why they voted one way or the other instead if spilling out the same old crap and tarring all with the same brush
You could even argue that allowing people from the eu ( majority white) is maybe not fair as why did they get preferential treatment over someone from africa , india etc
Surely we allow immigration based on want and need rather than area
So currently Ukrainians have a greater need than most from the eu would
Plus anyone can still come from the eu they just have to meet the criteria same as the rest of the world , so is that maybe fairer ?

@Nutellaonall

Everyone needs to do their bit. But I think it should be related to population density across Europe. The UK is one of the most densely populated countries in the EU. If you count just England it is the most densely packed country in the EU second only to Malta.

Historically The UK has always welcomed immigrants with open arms clearly. That is something to be proud of.

I would like some forests and green spaces for my childrens future also. I guess it is a balance.

Really? That is so not true.

Doesn't surprise me

This is a country who voted for Brexit, Boris, Patel

Too many right wing racists here

We grow food on almost all of the remainder

Food for animals in the most part.

Has it not crossed your mind at all that perhaps it is the government that has got worse over the last 3-4 years or so?

I'm speaking more of the tone of social media and the willingness to insult and make serious accusations against poster's characters, without knowing the first thing about them, just because they disagree with you. Are you saying the government are entirely responsible for this? Have we no personal agency at all? I do think there is more anger and frustration in society right now, some of it probably due to feeling helplessness at being stuck with government policies that you disagree with but I think a large part is unrealistic "social justice" ideas becoming mainstream and widely disseminated on SM in a way they could never otherwise have been without those platforms. After all the majority of the voting public voted Boris et al in and continue to do so, so most people aren't unhappy with them. There must therefore be more to the change in how people interact and communicate in all arenas.

@rebekuh

Doesn't surprise me

This is a country who voted for Brexit, Boris, Patel

Too many right wing racists here

Ah this old chestnut,anyone who doesn't vote the way you think they should is clearly racist You only show your own ignorance when you have to resort to name calling and insults

While it feels overwhelming for some people here in the present, in the sense that it is being discussed on this thread, History will only judge for those in the future who find this important. For most people fifty years from now, this humanitarian crisis will at best be a blip in a secondary school history class at best.

This is one of those situations where it matters in the here and now, but taken from a historical perspective, will just be added to the ever ongoing list of humanitarian crises that have existed all over the globe for as long as time.

@Letshaveablackcelebration

I work with refugees, many of whom fled war. I worked with an Afghan refugee yesterday who is studying a masters here - he fled Kabul with his family with a rucksack on w military plane in august - he’s worked in high level government for 20 years and brings unique experience and skills. He wants to contribute to society. The tone of some of the comments here is really unpleasant.

If you work with refugees you must know that when refugees enter a safe country, they are meant to stay there and have their claims and such processed.

In general you are not going to see people coming directly from Ukraine to the UK. It being an island and sharing no border.

So the process is going to be different than places that are closer and it can't be compared.

Are you happy for the UK to treat refugees who show up in an airport, that way or just those from Ukraine? Because there are quite a lot who would like to leave the camps and countries they are in right now.