Page 14 | To think Zelenskyy needs to stop demanding a no fly zone

WilsonMilson · 2022-03-08T13:33:44+00:00

The war is awful, it’s heartbreaking to see what is happening in Ukraine. Zelenskyy has been exceptionally brave, but his current rhetoric that ‘until a no fly zone is put in place that every death is on NATO’ is reckless. A no fly zone means WW3. No one wins then, the whole world burns. He needs to stop blaming us for not getting into what would undoubtedly be a nuclear war with Russia. It is a terrible situation, but implementing a no fly zone would be crazy.

TheKeatingFive · 08/03/2022 19:54

His army is in disarray, he's bankrupting his county, he won't able to pay for a new war.

Like I say, believe that if you want.

But even if you're right, given him a year, two years, he goes again

veevee04 · 08/03/2022 19:55

He's trying to do the best by his people and advocate for them YABU. I'd fully expect our prime minister to do everything we were in the same position.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 08/03/2022 19:55

[quote mumwon]@ChardonnaysPetDragon some of this already has happened & Putin has "allowed" people to use "escape routes" to Russia/Belorussia (& remember Belorussia has a puppet leader ia was NOT voted in & whose opposition leader ...
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/08/russia-ukraine-war-possible-trajectories
The Ukrainians are fighting tooth & claw because they know what will happen to them & they are begging for help. Most refugees are women & children - many will become widows or wives of injured men - how many will be allowed back if Ukraine loses? Would it be in Russia's interest to let them back home?[/quote]
Sorry, I'm not sure how this ties with my post.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 08/03/2022 19:56

@TheKeatingFive

His army is in disarray, he's bankrupting his county, he won't able to pay for a new war.

Like I say, believe that if you want.

But even if you're right, given him a year, two years, he goes again

No, a fuck up this bad, we're talking decades to fix the state of the army and he will be finished after this.

Lesperance · 08/03/2022 19:57

@beautifulsay

Does everyone who wants a no fly zone, want to have WW3 happen ?

It's not a good idea at all for us to get any more involved than we already are.

Unless you want to be at war / nuked.

I think you need to read up more on the situation, so you don't ask questions like this. This thread is about whether Zelenskyy should stop asking for a no fly zone. Not whether there should or shouldn't be a no fly zone. There's a massive difference.

TheKeatingFive · 08/03/2022 19:58

No, a fuck up this bad, we're talking decades to fix the state of the army and he will be finished after this.

God you're so naive

beautifulsay · 08/03/2022 20:03

@Lesperance patronising much ?

I have read up plenty thanks. The OP literally asks about this in the title. Not sure what I've said that's wrong or what makes you the higher authority on this.

birthdaywanker · 08/03/2022 20:03

*Zelenskyy is a world leader whose country and people are being obliterated by an appalling, corrupt and quasi-fascist regime. If the Russians reach Kyiv he will almost certainly be murdered. His job is to ask for whatever might save Ukraine, in as vocal and persistent manner as possible, even if he knows it's unlikely to happen.

You, in contrast, are a random person sitting at a computer on a website where people argue about whether you should wear pyjamas in the day time and which type of soap is more hygienic and why their best friend has fallen out with them.

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.*

This is excellent.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 08/03/2022 20:23

@TheKeatingFive

No, a fuck up this bad, we're talking decades to fix the state of the army and he will be finished after this.

God you're so naive

Am I?

What do I know, it's not like I can read Russian sources as well.

TheHateIsNotGood · 08/03/2022 20:32

Poland and the US might have come up with a solution (not sure just recently heard on news).

Poland has Mig Fighters as their air defence which they are happy to loan to Ukraine for Ukrainian pilots to fly. However as this would leave Poland without vital air defence the US will lend/base some F16 fighters in Germany/Poland to replace them.

The Ukrainian pilots can fly Migs. This would be a great solution.

notimagain · 08/03/2022 20:52

@TheHateIsNotGood

Poland and the US might have come up with a solution (not sure just recently heard on news).

Poland has Mig Fighters as their air defence which they are happy to loan to Ukraine for Ukrainian pilots to fly. However as this would leave Poland without vital air defence the US will lend/base some F16 fighters in Germany/Poland to replace them.

The Ukrainian pilots can fly Migs. This would be a great solution.

As far as the thread goes though It’s not a solution to the no-fly zone issue.

All the deal does is hopefully gets the Ukranian Air Force back to the something like it was early on in the conflict (assuming they still have pilots).

Bluebellsunderthetrees · 08/03/2022 20:52

@TheKeatingFive

All we have been hearing is his army is crap and he won't be able to hold Ukraine.

That's very naive. But I guess you'll believe it to make yourself feel better.

So you think the information we are being fed from our press/Zelensky/military "experts" is naive ? The old vehicles, the rubbish logistics, untrained soldiers surrendering to the Ukrainians? Zelensky said he had "broken the enemy's plans in a week" Shame he wasn't as quick getting to the negotiating table. I am just going on what they are telling me on the inadequacy of the Russian army

notimagain · 08/03/2022 20:58

So you think the information we are being fed from our press/Zelensky/military "experts" is naive ?

Some of it definitely has been naive.

It’s (unfortunately) still to soon to write off the whole Russian army.

Factually not all their equipment is old, not all their logistics has been run as badly as it has been in places, and not all their soldiers are as untrained as the conscripts doing their one year…

ListeningButNotHearing · 08/03/2022 20:58

YANBU It would cause WW3

ThisIsGroundControl · 08/03/2022 21:10

@veevee04

He's trying to do the best by his people and advocate for them YABU. I'd fully expect our prime minister to do everything we were in the same position.

Would you? I'd fully expect him to offer up all our land in exchange for a safe passage out of here.

triggery · 08/03/2022 21:15

So you think the information we are being fed from our press/Zelensky/military "experts" is naive ?
The old vehicles, the rubbish logistics, untrained soldiers surrendering to the Ukrainians? Zelensky said he had "broken the enemy's plans in a week" Shame he wasn't as quick getting to the negotiating table.
I am just going on what they are telling me on the inadequacy of the Russian army

It's not naive, it's naive that you don't seem to realise how much of it is just blatant propaganda

Not that blatant propaganda is always a bad thing it's won the entire western world over to the point we are treating Zelensky like he's sexy jesusand sending over Scottish Grandads buuuuut it's war propaganda. And even if it was true, the price of oil is skyrocketing and russia will still have buyers. Their currency is going down the pan but the people who matter have dollars. They're not just going to vanish away into obscurity for the next 20 years.

TheKeatingFive · 08/03/2022 21:30

So you think the information we are being fed from our press/Zelensky/military "experts" is naive ?

The experts are all saying that Ukraine's going to defeat the Russians and wipe them out for 10 years, are they? Hmm.

Zelensky said he had "broken the enemy's plans in a week"

You can't think of any reason why he'd be talking himself up right now, no?

Jouleigh · 08/03/2022 22:23

@incognitoforthisone

Zelenskyy is a world leader whose country and people are being obliterated by an appalling, corrupt and quasi-fascist regime. If the Russians reach Kyiv he will almost certainly be murdered. His job is to ask for whatever might save Ukraine, in as vocal and persistent manner as possible, even if he knows it's unlikely to happen.

You, in contrast, are a random person sitting at a computer on a website where people argue about whether you should wear pyjamas in the day time and which type of soap is more hygienic and why their best friend has fallen out with them.

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.

I agree

mowglika · 08/03/2022 22:37

I completely agree with you OP, he’s just wasting time and airtime talking about nfz. It will only lead to more death and more war and more families and children torn apart, how is it even a viable option. A nfz will never happen and if it did it would only increase the death toll to the nth degree.

He should stop wasting time on this and should be considering other options.

mowglika · 08/03/2022 22:39

And it’s not even a good option for Ukraine as Russia will continue with the heavy artillery which they have plenty of, and will prevent Ukraine flying in that space too. Don’t know what he’s thinking.

mowglika · 08/03/2022 23:01

In fact his insistence on asking for the nfz when there’s no benefit to either Ukraine or the rest of the world makes me think he just wants other countries/NATO to get involved in this war. He knows the nfz will not reduce casualties and further will impede their own defence as Ukraine won’t be able to use the airspace either. Clearly he is acutely aware of these facts. So knowing this what is his angle?

NiLunNiLautre · 08/03/2022 23:07

Quite surprising and illuminating how many expert military tacticians there are on Mumsnet; I'm sure Zelensky wishes he had some of you around him now as advisers.

ABitBesotted · 08/03/2022 23:14

I honestly think he's in too deep and doesn't know precisely what he is doing. It is probable the Americans have reneged on certain unofficial assurances made to him pre-invasion.

He was immensely popular when he was first elected- that popularity was hugely eroded with both his handling of coronavirus (I can't fault anyone for that, it was a global catastophe) and also when the Pandora leaks showed he had money in offshore accounts (he who had run on an anti-corruption ticket). He has been inconsistent in his approach to Russia- sometimes apparently conciliatory, sometimes finding it more politically expedient to be vocally anti-Russia, especially post-Pandora.

I think he's an intelligent man but I also think he is spouting a fair amount of shite. He seems to have flattered Boris with his early morning phone calls and is possibly shoring up a post-Ukraine refuge here. Though not in Salisbury, probably.

Saku · 08/03/2022 23:55

For those who think Putin will stop at Ukraine, he has already said there would be military consequences for Finland and Sweden if they apply to NATO.

Then they shouldn't apply unless they want to become Ukraine, Syria or Afghanistan .
Why would they? .. they are living happily and life is good there.
(its not called bending to Russia, its called national interest, as other countries are not attacking Russia right now because of national interest). It is US persuading them to join NATO and telling them if you cant join then your freedom is compromised.

Just now found a similarity ....... wherever US meddles, it end up like Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Iraq .. and the list goes on.
It is not difficult to understand why??
If US arms business shut down in one place So it triggers another place to keep it going .. US feeds on this. Other countries and its people are just tool for this.

TooBigForMyBoots · 09/03/2022 00:10

No @saku, quite the opposite. Finland had no desire to join NATO until Putin expanded his assault on Ukraine.