Can new mums really not ask 'how are you?' anymore?

[Curiousbananas]

Tell me mums. Does having a baby really and truly mean you completely lose the ability to ask a very close friend 'how are you?' and make space to hear the response, even just occasionally? Can you be so very sleep deprived and focused on your child that you simply can't muster any interest in your friends anymore? Are we friends of new mums just expected to have a one sided friendship because you're a mum?

For context...
I have a couple of very close friends who have recently had babies. I've been a dream friend, I've batch cooked, I've had the babies so they can sleep, I've checked in on my friends mental health, I've bought gifts. The works. Babies are approaching 6-7 months old. Every minute of time together since babies were born has been on their terms, at their homes, and I have been so understanding of this as they've been adjusting. BUT I'm starting to get fidgety. I've also been through a personally shitty time in the past 6 months, miscarriage, bereavements etc and I want my friends back. Is it totally unreasonable of me to expect that I should be offered more than a "hope you're doing ok" every now and then? Can my friends truly not cope with the effort of directly asking me 'how are you?' like they used to, and inviting me to respond? Am I unreasonable to start to expect a 'would you like to come over for some dinner and a catchup whilst partner watches the baby so we can spend a minute just the two of us?' Or 'fancy going for a walk? Or a coffee?'

I am pregnant again right now, the last of my close friends to have a baby and I'm wondering, will motherhood make me suddenly, inexplicably, completely unable to show genuine interest in my friends and their lives when it hits me?

Am I being unreasonable to expect that friendships should continue to be semi two sided after the initial adjustment is over? Hit me!

@ChristinaXYZ
@aSofaNearYou
I'm sorry that you struggled...maybe I didn't word it right, I do get that some people struggle, for various reasons.
But equally some do martyr themselves, when they don't have to, because women are fed this narrative that in order to be a good mother you have to absolutely dedicate yourself 100% to your child.
I just wanted to share a different perspective, because when I was expecting, I got really anxious reading threads like this, where everyone was talking about how difficult having a baby is, how it nearly broke them, how they had no time for anyone or anything. The OP is currently pregnant, so maybe she needs to hear some positive stories too.

@GirlOfTudor

You're being very unreasonable and you're going to have a vey big shock when you have your own baby to look after. When you have a child, you realise what's important in life, who's worth having around your child and where you spend your time. After having a baby, particularly during maternity leave, your life will be 100% about keeping that baby happy and healthy. That's your priority and that's what comes first - not going out for a coffee when a friend expects it. Your socialisation is on their terms at their house because THEY have a baby. Once you have one, you'll understand how difficult it is to just leave the house most days. You sound a little needy - perhaps that's why they aren't making a massive effort to reach out to you. There's no such thing as an 'initial adjustment '. Things don't go back to pre-baby life once you get used to being a parent. You're forever different. Perhaps your friends have grown apart from you because of this? Please don't expect them to socialise with you without their small babies. That's so selfish. Why would they leave their babies if they don't have to? As for the 'good practice' comment, playing with your friend's baby is NOTHING like having your own. I appreciate you might be lonely and missing your friends, but they have bigger things to think about, and you're going to be eating a LOT of humble pie once yours comes along.

Gosh what a horrible post. Did you not read that OP experienced a pregnancy loss but STILL made time for her friends. I had premature twins who I exclusively breastfed my daughter had multiple health issues but I still made time to keep in touch with friends plus made 2 twin mum friends who I talked about baby stuff. I found the first year incredibly hard work as I was worried about DD's health and was sleep deprived. It's possible to put the needs of your babies first and be a good friend it just takes a bit of effort.

[quote ChocolateDigestivesMmmm]@ChristinaXYZ
@aSofaNearYou
I'm sorry that you struggled...maybe I didn't word it right, I do get that some people struggle, for various reasons.
But equally some do martyr themselves, when they don't have to, because women are fed this narrative that in order to be a good mother you have to absolutely dedicate yourself 100% to your child.
I just wanted to share a different perspective, because when I was expecting, I got really anxious reading threads like this, where everyone was talking about how difficult having a baby is, how it nearly broke them, how they had no time for anyone or anything. The OP is currently pregnant, so maybe she needs to hear some positive stories too. [/quote]
I know what you're saying but there is a very strong narrative on this thread that people who struggle are also actively choosing to only think about their babies to excess because that is all they think a mother should do. When if you actually read the comments from people on the other side, hardly anyone is saying anything like that. They did a normal amount of parenting and didn't want to feel too tired to do anything else efficiently, they just did.

@Herewegoagain84

I think wait until your own baby is born before you can have perspective on your own question! I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but everyone experiences motherhood differently, and all babies are different. You honestly feel like you’re in an alternate universe to start with. It doesn’t mean your friends aren’t thinking of you - sometimes there is literally no brain space or energy to actually type that message.

All of this. I want so desperately to have the mental and emotional headspace to reengage with my pre baby life, including my own hobbies and my friends. But honestly, 10 months in, I'm still struggling to remember who or what I was or am outside of being a new mum. I know I will get there at some point because I have to. But I am not deliberately a shit or self absorbed friend. I've just cut myself off a bit and gone quite insular to cope with how I feel. It's self preservation in a way. I don't want to be this way; I want to be the pre baby me plus the new me combined. The transformation I've gone through though is so huge, I just don't know where to start.

I'm not sure if that sleep deprived waffle made much sense, but there you go.

I remember feeling hurt when my sister had her first baby. We were incredibly close, and I went to stay with her and helped out as much as I could. I was never away. I felt like you, OP, as though she never asked me about me anymore or showed interest in my life. She seemed so tied up in my nephew. I remember driving home some days feeling irritated with her and actually thinking she's so selfish now!

Then I had my baby 10 months ago and honestly... I instantly knew what she had felt. I felt it too. I just couldn't find the headspace to deal with anything or anyone other than my baby. Some days were survival, others were a bit better than survival but I still found it immensely hard to broaden my mind to the world outside of keeping a tiny person alive and well. It blew my mind to such an extent initially (at 10 months in I'm somewhat more relaxed now but I do still struggle at times). It really took this experience for me to fully empathise with my sister's position.

That's just my experience, fwiw. I wish I was one of these mums who could bounce into their new role and identity with headspace for everyone and everything as they had before. But I've had to accept I'm not. I can only hope with time I will be.

Thinking of how to even reply to what's app messages takes more brain power than I could ever imagined when I get less than 4 hours sleep.

Oh god yes. I'm currently in the thick of this with my 10 month old. I am seeing double screens as I type this.... sort of floating dots behind it. 🙈

To answer your question, no of course it isn't impossible for new mums to do these things. But the reality is it can be hard, and it's unlikely to be intentional. I was barely with it with a newborn, conversationally I probably was very lacking but I was just trying my best not to seem like a complete zombie, I would replay my responses to things in my head and cringe but my mind was working so slowly. It wasn't intentional or from lack of caring, or that I was super self absorbed, I had just never been so tired in my life. I don't think it's something very many new mum's relish.

A million times over, this. Nail on the head.

@aSofaNearYou

The world does not revolve around babies and those who have them. And plenty of people are capable of being parents and good/unselfish friends at the same time.

If you read through this thread you'll see a lot of people saying they value their friends but were absolutely at the hardest point in their life in terms of energy levels and struggling to function... and people saying they are selfish and think the world revolves around their baby, and that it's too much of an ask for their friends to have to wait that period out.

People who are struggling to function and people who are entitled and genuinely think people SHOULD only be focused on them and their babies are totally different things that are being massively conflated on this thread.

I didn't think the world revolved around me or my baby on any level and I didn't expect anything from my friends in terms of my pregnancy or baby, I was just going through a really difficult time and was basically sleepwalking whenever I saw them, it took all my energy to even be there and I did all I could not to show it, but it might not always be enough. Thoughtlessness might unintentionally occur.

Nobody is obliged to put themselves out to be compassionate about that but it really feels like the accusations of being uncaring are pretty backwards on this thread. Most people are not doing this because they are genuinely selfish and entitled. They are just half asleep.

Just wanted to say that I agree those things are being conflated, but just to be clear, I'm not personally trying to conflate them. Of course if someone is struggling they won't have the bandwidth to juggle friendships as well. My remarks were largely in reaction to some of the ludicrous sanctimony and entitlement of some of the comments on this thread (e.g. the post I quoted) by people who just seem to think the world should dance attendance on anyone who happens to have had a baby recently.

I absolutely agree that it's not possible to know whether a particular individual is struggling, but some on this thread just seem to be trying to make out everyone with a young baby should automatically get to have their own priorities put first 100% of the time, whether they're struggling or not. That's how some posts read to me, anyway.

The women who are coming on here to crow about how they coped so well are often, in my experience, women with free childcare on tap and disposable income.

Also it's easy to look back and think I could have done it differently but at the time you are on a hamster wheel of sleep deprivation and can't get your head together enough to change things.

It's incredibly blinkered to say "I coped so well and therefore everyone else is 'martyring' themselves."

So much of it comes down to money/childcare/family help, alongside the baby, the birth, the physical and mental effects.

@Tortabella

The women who are coming on here to crow about how they coped so well are often, in my experience, women with free childcare on tap and disposable income.

Also it's easy to look back and think I could have done it differently but at the time you are on a hamster wheel of sleep deprivation and can't get your head together enough to change things.

It's incredibly blinkered to say "I coped so well and therefore everyone else is 'martyring' themselves."

So much of it comes down to money/childcare/family help, alongside the baby, the birth, the physical and mental effects.

It's not crowing to say you still made time for your closest friends. If you read my previous post I struggled with premature twins and my DD was really unwell but I still managed to contact friends and in return 2 in particular helped me by holding DD who although really poorly was easier because she would let others hold her while DS would only be held by myself and DH (But he went back to work after 2weeks) My eldest sis had one baby who was well and healthy plus formula fed she had lots of support from myself and my younger sis yet she didn't contact friends as she was just self absorbed, she's always been like that. She never helped with twins and rarely visited even though she worked 2 days a week and her DD was 10 when I had twins. Her daughter is very different as she kept asking to see her baby cousins. We all have different experiences and we deal with them in different ways.

All those saying it's ubderstandnale because motherhood is hard sound a bit like my auntie who is now really jealous of her sister (my mum) who is easing into a great retirement with friends, hobbies and interests, when it is her own fault that she let all that slide completely from the moment she had kids and never invested further in her friendships and interests. Oh and of course she's also the stereotype over demanding mother to her adult children, always complaining they never visit or call enough... because she's completely dependent on them.
Just saying... stereotypes are often based on reality and I think you can't just he like my aunt and blame everyone else if you become 'one of those mothers'

You are being completely unreasonable.

It's healthy to leave the baby for a bit and go and do things without it. However, few mothers ever seem to. I was seen as an utter oddball for going to the gym, out to the shops or seeing friends while the father got on with it.

Nothing worse than baby bores. I ended up seeking out childless friends. My kids are lovely, but I don't want to talk about them to others. They're only interesting to their own parents and it feels like an invasion of their privacy to gossip about them. I wouldn't talk about my husband or a sibling either. There are far more interesting things to talk about.

In your post of 12:57 yesterday you mention that one mum and her H were living on microwave meals whereas before the baby arrived she would cook from scratch every night, and that she was overwhelmed.

Why can't you join the dots here?

It's incredibly blinkered to say "I coped so well and therefore everyone else is 'martyring' themselves."

So much of it comes down to money/childcare/family help, alongside the baby, the birth, the physical and mental effects.

^ completely agree. Sad to see so many people bashing other mums.

Admittedly I haven't read the whole thread but I haven't seen much mum bashing, nor have I bashed anyone. Just different people sharing different experiences.
I don't have much family help as my family live on the other side of the world and DH's family live several hours away. So no free childcare on tap. Disposable income yes, some, but we're average earners so no cleaners, nannies or gardeners etc.
I didn't always cope, there were some really hard times, but I also made a conscious effort to invest in my friendships and interests...because those things keep me sane and also ensured I had something other than motherhood to go back to, once I came out of the newborn fog. That isn't "crowing", just personal choice.
I get that it's not possible for everyone and I get that people can struggle, for a whole host of reasons such as MH/PND/poverty/single parenthood/ill health and disability etc but that's not what the OP is discussing, her friends don't have these issues and are out and about at baby classes or weekends away with partners. They're just not taking much of an interest in her life and it's understandable she feels hurt.

I don't think you're being unreasonable but I have to say it did take me about 12 months to fully adjust. Looking back I don't think I realised the extent of the overwhelm of change.

Having said that whilst I probably wasn't exactly my usual self I did have the capacity to check in with people see how they were doing etc. You sound like you've been a phenomenonal friend and I'd have been so grateful to have had someone doing all that for me (my mum and sisters were brill as were a few of my friends but baby was born in 2020 so we were hit by worst of lockdowns so the support was more drive by drop offs of food or catching up via video call etc)

MiniCooper15 my comments were not directed at you at all, I didn't see your earlier post. Reading your latest one though, I am glad you had support.

her friends don't have these issues and are out and about at baby classes or weekends away with partners

On this point, there is an element of clashing timetables when someone has a baby, especially on maternity leave. Peak times to be busy with a baby tend to be mornings and bedtime. Filling daytimes with baby classes is likely irrelevant since that’s when most people are at work and not available for socialising/catch up’s. Add to that weekend socialising does become sparser once you’ve got dc for a few years because that’s generally the opportunity, for most people anyway, to spend time as a family or get tasks done when there’s a partner around share juggling the baby. Ime weekends have only gotten busier as my dd has got older and we’re accommodating her social life alongside maintaining a house, wider family demands etc. if all the adults are working a lot is pushed to the weekends.

I didn't lose my ability to care for my friends and kept in touch and tried to engage in deep/meaningful conversations but I will say for the first year -14 months my head was all over. I was forgetful, less intelligent and coherent, knackered and anxious, on high alert all of the time. Months 0-9 were the worst. And friends had no chance of any sensible conversation months 0-3 as baby was attached to my breast every 45-60 mins.

Despite that, all of my close friends are still my close friends. Those with older kids understood how I felt and those with no kids made allowances and were patient and loving with me.

I don't need my friends to love my baby, but they need to understand that priorities shift and a baby is helpless and completely reliant so they now move down the list. Doesn't mean I love them less but just that I have less time and they are less needing of me!