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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

NC because clearly, I'm such a rubbish parent. ASD meltdowns.

163 replies

Junipercrumble · 06/03/2022 20:32

DD is a teenager with ASD and probably ADHD.
She is extremely intelligent academically, has zero empathy, cannot imagine being in someone else's shoes, approaches every boundary in life as either a boundary she doesnt care to breach and therefore will accept or more commonly, an obstacle to overcome by any means.

She pushes hard against any boundaries if she doesnt agree with them.

I require the patience of a saint to live in the same house as her.

We dont share many values or beliefs, in fact, we hold opposing views, yet in some ways, we are quite similar.

DD screams, swears, punches, kicks, bites, takes my belongings when she chooses, never asks, doesnt accept that I am in charge ever, never considers other people and their needs, controls everything in the house and all I hear is that this is down to her anxiety.

Well, maybe it is, but that doesnt help me to cope with it.

Anytime I try to explain to DD how her actions or words affect me, she blocks my voice out by singing loudly while I'm talking, putting headphones on and listening to music loudly or shuts herself in her room while leaving me to sort out the latest disaster. If I continue to try in a calm way to talk to her, she will become violent and since she is physically stronger and faster than me, I get hurt, or she will tear my phone/tv remote/snack out of my hand/pocket to 'remove my privileges', because I am not behaving myself. 🤔

This infuriates me, because I'm always left to bear the consequences of her actions, whatever those consequences may be.

She cannot see it from my pov and I cannot live her way. 😫

There are so many things she does that are completely inconsiderate to me, but I will describe one day for you.

She lays in bed until she feels like getting up.
She runs herself a bath and despite explaining until I am blue in the face, will top the bath up until there isnt a drop of hot water left.
I then have to switch on the immersion which gives a small amount of hot water, which I can ill afford, or go without showering/washing hair/washing dishes.

She throws all of her clothes around her room, eats in her room, discards dirty sanitary towels on the floor, in fact, she never ever uses a bin or a washing basket, both of which she has.
She helps herself to whatever food, drink, makeup she wants and then just drops it on the floor, never puts anything away or in a bin, no exaggeration.
She cooks anything she wants to cook and usually I end up putting most of it in the bin because she doesnt want it anymore.
She has absolutely no respect for me at all, and I suspect, views me as a mere domestic appliance, whose sole reason for existing is to quietly carry out all of the tasks she doesnt want to do, whilst making this as difficult and challenging a process as humanely possible.
She refuses to do ANYTHING unless she wants to, EVER!!
I am threatened with violence every single day! I am attacked every single day verbally, and every single week physically.
I am walking on eggshells in my own home.Sad

Today, I went for a shower before she had a bath, I was 15 minutes tops, washing my hair, showering, drying and dressing and I come downstairs to find she has mixed 1.5kg of flour, 12 eggs, a pint of milk and 500g of butter into a bowl, covered the kitchen worktops with it, broken eggshells, sloppy paste all over the work surfaces, floor, fridge handles, splattered all over the kettle, cupboard doors were dripping in the mixture, a letter covered in the gloop, 3 baking trays out of the oven covered in gloop, tea towels wet with gloop, and paints out on the sofa 🙈.

When I asked her what she was doing, she tells me to stfu and then blocks her ears and walks out, leaving me to clean AGAIN.

I feel like a 12th century slave. 😭

I cannot understand her complete inability to accept how horrible this is for me to deal with, when she accepts she would hate to do it herself, but apparently, it doesnt occur to her that other people feel that way too.
We have something along these lines most days. 😭

She doesnt like cleaning, but gives no consideration to whether I enjoy cleaning it. (I dont!)

If your child has ASD or ADHD, doesnt have any empathy, doesnt accept boundaries, and you feel as though you are being bullied by them on a daily basis, how do you determine whether this is a part of their ASD, their need for control, their anxieties, or whether they are in fact just a bully?

A psychopath doesnt necessarily have ASD or ADHD, yet they dont have much empathy nor accept boundaries.

I hear SN parents saying their DC cannot control their meltdowns, but what is the difference between a meltdown and someone who is using particular tactics to get their own way?

Are they the same thing?

How do you clearly identify a meltdown as opposed to bad behaviours? I am struggling to see the difference.

DD is inconsiderate. Is that her ASD?
DD doesn't care about how anyone else feels, only how she feels. Is this ASD?
DD screams, punches, kicks, bites and does everything in her power to sabotage what I'm doing when she is annoyed. Is that ASD?
DD is incredibly lazy. Is this also ASD?
How can anyone define what is genuinely ASD and what is simply the actions of a person who doesnt give a shit about anyone except themselves and is only happy when they are getting their own way?

IABU: All of those undesirable and horrible behaviours are directly attributed to ASD and are completely out of the control of someone with ASD.

YANBU: Lots of shitty behaviour is attributed to someone having ASD, but it is also quite possible that the person is simply a horrible bully who has learned they do not need to try to conform to social expectations or norms, nor control their horrible behaviour because they have ASD, or maybe they're actually an undiagnosed psychopath or a sociopath?
Why arent children diagnosed with psychopathy or sociopathy and if children could be diagnosed with those or similar conditions, how many children who were previously thought to have ASD or ADHD would have been diagnosed with psychopathy/sociopathy/antisocial personality disorder instead?

I am really struggling with DD and how I am always expected to have a never ending fountain of understanding and patience when tbh, I dont.

What even is the fundamental differences between a person with ASD, a psychopath and a sociopath?
And how can I know which one of those is DD?

Sad
OP posts:
lborgia · 10/03/2022 22:15

Well now I'm in tears, I'm so glad that you weren't frightened away, but please be kind to yourself. You have experienced such loss, not just your son, but through your experiences with DD, and it takes an extraordinary person to accept such a shift in thinking.

It doesn't magically make it all better, but if you show your dd, and yourself, as much compassion as you can muster, it is easier in the end. She will still lash out, but that's definitely also something about you being her safe space/ person who she trusts with the pain. There will be days where this does not make you think "lucky me!".

Take care OP, and I'm sure I'm not the only one rooting for you, and happy to hear how it's going. Even if sometimes you come back and tell at us that you've taken two steps back that day.

You're incredible. Star

Nomoresmoresthensnores · 10/03/2022 22:30

This is the best thing I've read on MN ever...

It is really hard. I came to this realisation like you after some shocking parenting from me when I was totally in crisis. Its transformed my son and our relationship understanding why he behaves as I does. It was while I was lecturing school and council I realised I myself was also at fault. It can work for you but it won't be overnight and you will have days where you can't do it. But you've got this. All the very best to both of you.
(And please try and find some parent carers locally to talk too..even if just virtual).

TAKESNOSHITSHIRLEY · 10/03/2022 22:40

PDA is mentioned a fair bit but also look in to ODD, Oppositional defiant disorder (i have 2 boys with 1 each)

BigYellowTaxiT · 10/03/2022 22:54

I am autistic and I am fully aware I can be an arsehole at times for a variety of reasons that are mostly related to trying to cope with my environment and/or a variety of stressors/triggers. This has taken me almost 45 years to learn and much of the time I still struggle to identify this in the moment.

Sometimes, of course, like everyone on the planet, I am simply an arsehole for no reason.

I scored a 9 for empathy in my ASD assessment. The cut off for autism is less than 30. However, I lack cognitive empathy, not affective empathy. I cannot identify the correct emotion in others or myself and thus cannot always respond accordingly. My affective empathy can be off the scale though (I cried at Short Circuit 2 for example). A large proportion of autistic people struggle with cognitive empathy not affective empathy.

I was horrible to my mum at that age but I still can’t explain why. I was never violent or so blatantly disrespectful though. I do not think your daughters behaviour is solely due to her ASD.

After having counselling I have identified that most of my “bad/socially unacceptable” behaviour is linked to sensory overwhelm, changes in routine & associated poor communication, and significant frustration at what I perceive to be errors, something that is wrong or not being listened too.

BigYellowTaxiT · 10/03/2022 22:59

Many of my current issues (which are work related) would not exist if there was better communication and understanding. And the workplace was made more autism friendly.

notsohippychick · 10/03/2022 23:52

Ah OP what a lovely update. I am guilty of trying to fit my ASD son into a NT hole! It’s because some days he seem so so “normal” and able to cope. I forget that he struggles and he doesn’t do it to annoy me (although he’s still a child and can be a little turd!!)

Don’t beat yourself up about that. But it is important for our children to try and meet us half way. They can’t go around screaming and ranting, it’s not ok, it’s about working together to find a way forward xx

BigYellowTaxiT · 10/03/2022 23:59

They seem “normal” because they are masking.

I cannot emphasise enough how mentally and physically draining masking can be. Some weekends I literally cannot get out of bed and need the entire weekend to recover from a heavy week of masking. Luckily I am single with no children so am able to hide away under my weighted blanket with my special dimmable lightbulb from Friday evening until Sunday evening. It’s not being lazy…..it is recovery. It’s taken me years to realise and understand that I’m not a lazy, horrible person.

skeptile · 11/03/2022 01:04

What a moving update.

I am so very sorry for your loss.

I have been thinking of you and your DD constantly.

In terms of accessing a supportive community, I highly recommend Kristy Forbes. She is a PDA mother of four PDA daughters - and a brilliant and articulate advocate for families like ours. She offers a PDA parenting course, which is life changing. She's on FB under 'Kristy Forbes - Autism & ND Support'.

Junipercrumble · 12/03/2022 23:31

Since writing this thread, I made a decision to relax demands around DD, and be more positive.
I have been telling myself she's not doing things to anger me, just to cope herself and I dont need to pull her up on things so much.
The house feels calmer in the last few days.
DD has even come and made conversation with me. Grin
BigYellowTaxiT, Your insight is helpful, I have thought of DD as lazy because she spends such a lot of time in her room laying down watching youtube. Your words will remain with me, as will most other peoples on this thread.

Thank you for the facebook page recommendations. They are exactly what I needed.
So much of what has been said on here resonates with me, and reading through the thread, the doubts and confusion I've been living with has begun to lift.

How awful for DD that rather than having a parent whom she feels genuinely accepts and supports her for who she is, she has felt like she has not been accepted or supported at all.
How lonely must that feel? Sad

Looking on the bright side helps me too, I find I'm not getting so irritated at the small stuff. Much of this is because I dont feel as though DD is deliberately doing things to annoy me now and the tension in our home seems to have lifted somewhat.
I wish I could show you all what a difference you have made to me, and indirectly, to DD.

I have not been the parent DD needed, I have tried to squeeze the autism out of her by punishment and reward, by explaining to her how her behaviour makes other people feel, by nagging her. Sad

I read something once that said something along the lines of 'Banging a square peg into a round hole doesnt make it fit. It just destroys the peg.'

I hope I can fix my relationship with DD, one day, one moment, one interaction at a time.

OP posts:
Phineyj · 13/03/2022 07:07

That sounds really positive OP. Good work! There are definitely people out there who have been through it, get it and can help. You and DD will find your tribe. Flowers

lborgia · 13/03/2022 07:11

Thank you so much for coming back to update. I realise it's not always going to be sunshine and roses, but good to hear your can see and feel a difference already.

I've been trying to do this for dc for 4 years, and I still have moments where I doubt this approach, always because school, or dh or someone else has pushed a "toughen up approach".

It really is the only way though.

Whatafustercluck · 13/03/2022 07:33

Hi op, I'm so pleased to read your positive update.

I was going to come on here and suggest you instead try the SN board, where lots of people have an understanding of what you're going through. I posted on here some time back about my 5yo dd who spiralled downwards with her behaviour when she started school in September. We were a family in crisis at that point with dd refusing to even wear her seatbelt to school. She was/ is undiagnosed (though the various professionals we're engaging with agree unofficially she is neurodiverse). I went away from AIBU feeling like the worst parent ever for failing to manage her behaviour effectively. But I'm pleased that some of the helpful and supportive comments here have helped you (I found that on the SN board instead).

I was going to suggest that if you haven't already done so, you read 'The Explosive Child'. It began a huge transformation for us, in that it focuses not on the behaviour, but the underlying causes of the behaviour. This is a similar approach taken with the professional support we are now receiving - I.e. that all behaviour is communication.

I have lost count of the number of times I had described my relationship with dd as like being is an abusive relationship with a partner, but with no option but to stay. And she's only 5! I can only imagine how overwhelming it must be with a 15yo!

Anyway, fast forward a few months and my relationship with her has transformed. I understand her so much more now, and know that she needs a much different parenting style to the one that worked with our eldest (rewards and consequences). As a family we're much happier these days and dd is like a different child (or, more accurately, gives and receives the same joy she did before her behaviour became unmanageable).

You have both had so much going on in your lives. Please be kind to yourselves. You'll get there. Flowers

BigYellowTaxiT · 13/03/2022 08:21

This is lovely to read. I think my mum had the same realisation at some point and we have a fantastic relationship now. I think you are a great mum and your relationship with your daughter will be fine.

Chore wise, sometimes what I need is someone to help and show me what to do and/or support me to get it done. For example, taking items to the tip. I had never done it before and it was making me anxious and stressed. My mum helped me book the time slot, came with me, helped unload the car and put things in the right place. Now I could do it on my own if needed (though haven’t yet).

I also need written instructions for some things, especially cooking. I regularly phone my mum with cooking questions and she will text me instructions afterwards.

I do have to be mentally and physically ready to do chores. I can’t just do them like others seem to be able to do. I have to plan it properly.

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