NC because clearly, I'm such a rubbish parent. ASD meltdowns.

[Junipercrumble]

DD is a teenager with ASD and probably ADHD.
She is extremely intelligent academically, has zero empathy, cannot imagine being in someone else's shoes, approaches every boundary in life as either a boundary she doesnt care to breach and therefore will accept or more commonly, an obstacle to overcome by any means.

She pushes hard against any boundaries if she doesnt agree with them.

I require the patience of a saint to live in the same house as her.

We dont share many values or beliefs, in fact, we hold opposing views, yet in some ways, we are quite similar.

DD screams, swears, punches, kicks, bites, takes my belongings when she chooses, never asks, doesnt accept that I am in charge ever, never considers other people and their needs, controls everything in the house and all I hear is that this is down to her anxiety.

Well, maybe it is, but that doesnt help me to cope with it.

Anytime I try to explain to DD how her actions or words affect me, she blocks my voice out by singing loudly while I'm talking, putting headphones on and listening to music loudly or shuts herself in her room while leaving me to sort out the latest disaster. If I continue to try in a calm way to talk to her, she will become violent and since she is physically stronger and faster than me, I get hurt, or she will tear my phone/tv remote/snack out of my hand/pocket to 'remove my privileges', because I am not behaving myself. 🤔

This infuriates me, because I'm always left to bear the consequences of her actions, whatever those consequences may be.

She cannot see it from my pov and I cannot live her way. 😫

There are so many things she does that are completely inconsiderate to me, but I will describe one day for you.

She lays in bed until she feels like getting up.
She runs herself a bath and despite explaining until I am blue in the face, will top the bath up until there isnt a drop of hot water left.
I then have to switch on the immersion which gives a small amount of hot water, which I can ill afford, or go without showering/washing hair/washing dishes.

She throws all of her clothes around her room, eats in her room, discards dirty sanitary towels on the floor, in fact, she never ever uses a bin or a washing basket, both of which she has.
She helps herself to whatever food, drink, makeup she wants and then just drops it on the floor, never puts anything away or in a bin, no exaggeration.
She cooks anything she wants to cook and usually I end up putting most of it in the bin because she doesnt want it anymore.
She has absolutely no respect for me at all, and I suspect, views me as a mere domestic appliance, whose sole reason for existing is to quietly carry out all of the tasks she doesnt want to do, whilst making this as difficult and challenging a process as humanely possible.
She refuses to do ANYTHING unless she wants to, EVER!!
I am threatened with violence every single day! I am attacked every single day verbally, and every single week physically.
I am walking on eggshells in my own home.

Today, I went for a shower before she had a bath, I was 15 minutes tops, washing my hair, showering, drying and dressing and I come downstairs to find she has mixed 1.5kg of flour, 12 eggs, a pint of milk and 500g of butter into a bowl, covered the kitchen worktops with it, broken eggshells, sloppy paste all over the work surfaces, floor, fridge handles, splattered all over the kettle, cupboard doors were dripping in the mixture, a letter covered in the gloop, 3 baking trays out of the oven covered in gloop, tea towels wet with gloop, and paints out on the sofa 🙈.

When I asked her what she was doing, she tells me to stfu and then blocks her ears and walks out, leaving me to clean AGAIN.

I feel like a 12th century slave. 😭

I cannot understand her complete inability to accept how horrible this is for me to deal with, when she accepts she would hate to do it herself, but apparently, it doesnt occur to her that other people feel that way too.
We have something along these lines most days. 😭

She doesnt like cleaning, but gives no consideration to whether I enjoy cleaning it. (I dont!)

If your child has ASD or ADHD, doesnt have any empathy, doesnt accept boundaries, and you feel as though you are being bullied by them on a daily basis, how do you determine whether this is a part of their ASD, their need for control, their anxieties, or whether they are in fact just a bully?

A psychopath doesnt necessarily have ASD or ADHD, yet they dont have much empathy nor accept boundaries.

I hear SN parents saying their DC cannot control their meltdowns, but what is the difference between a meltdown and someone who is using particular tactics to get their own way?

Are they the same thing?

How do you clearly identify a meltdown as opposed to bad behaviours? I am struggling to see the difference.

DD is inconsiderate. Is that her ASD?
DD doesn't care about how anyone else feels, only how she feels. Is this ASD?
DD screams, punches, kicks, bites and does everything in her power to sabotage what I'm doing when she is annoyed. Is that ASD?
DD is incredibly lazy. Is this also ASD?
How can anyone define what is genuinely ASD and what is simply the actions of a person who doesnt give a shit about anyone except themselves and is only happy when they are getting their own way?

IABU: All of those undesirable and horrible behaviours are directly attributed to ASD and are completely out of the control of someone with ASD.

YANBU: Lots of shitty behaviour is attributed to someone having ASD, but it is also quite possible that the person is simply a horrible bully who has learned they do not need to try to conform to social expectations or norms, nor control their horrible behaviour because they have ASD, or maybe they're actually an undiagnosed psychopath or a sociopath?
Why arent children diagnosed with psychopathy or sociopathy and if children could be diagnosed with those or similar conditions, how many children who were previously thought to have ASD or ADHD would have been diagnosed with psychopathy/sociopathy/antisocial personality disorder instead?

I am really struggling with DD and how I am always expected to have a never ending fountain of understanding and patience when tbh, I dont.

What even is the fundamental differences between a person with ASD, a psychopath and a sociopath?
And how can I know which one of those is DD?

I think you have to consider the future OP, you want her to stay with you because you fear that she will feel abandoned but are you really prepared to have her living at home for the rest of your life? Is that really the best thing for her? Because it doesn't sound like she is going to be able to hold down a job or live alone so what happens then? And when you die what happens to her then? How will she cope? I've seen a situation similar to this and when the parents died it was awful for the disabled person left behind because they had always only been cared for by their parents.

She needs more than you can give her because no one is giving you any support and you are understandably completely out of your depth. I think you really need to look into residential care as neither of you can live like this forever.

That sounds unimaginably difficult.
I would:
-look at residential options, getting your child help they need is not the same as giving up on them, or cutting them off. I know you (understandably) have emotional baggage around this, but honestly, getting help is not abandoning her. It doesn’t mean never see her again.
-look at her sensory regulation. Have you got things like a gym ball she can bounce on? Trampette? If she enjoys the ‘messy’ stuff- can you create a messy sensory stuff- maybe in the bathroom? Yes, you are still going to have to clean up. But recognising this is a need as much as hunger and thirst may help manage it.
-try to join her interests actively at least once a day. Even if this is in parallel. So she likes baking- make something alongside her, but be make it clear you enjoy some of the same things.
-find like minded support for yourself. You need a friend/ online space to vent.

It’s a horrendous way to live, and you have lots to unpick.

"Underhisi

SSRI are fab for asd anxiety
I’m on them
And I’d love to get son to accept he might need them"

My son has been on them since he was 11 and they have made a big difference in his coping abilities. Before he was on them the physical behaviours were constant having really ramped up when puberty started whereas now it is just occasional and he seems generally more calm and chilled.

I am familiar with a lot of what you describe. I hope you get the support that will work for your family. In all honesty I am currently struggling with my own mental health and have spent time being monitored etc after admitting to feeling suicidal.
I don't have a solution that works. My relationship is crumbling to dust, my youngest child is becoming very anxious living in this environment and my eldest has left home in order to be able to study. I'm just having to hope we make it until she's 18 when, sadly, i will have to ask her to leave. I've failed over here. I hope for better for everyone else in this situation.

I agree with others about seriously considering a residential school. My son is a similar age and we are in the early stages of getting a placement. We lost our only other child at birth so there is a part of me feeling like we are losing another child but we think it is the best thing long term for his future preparing him for adult life and getting his needs established rather than being thrown at the mercy of adult social care/ health services when we cannot manage the extent of his complex needs.

So the Dad, left as he cope, so left you with all this. How bloody selfish. I would be ringing him as a matter of urgency to come, when he gets there, walk out the door and take yourself away, turn your phone off and be totally un contactable. No assistance is given until points like this are reached. You need a break, this will break you or she will break something of you. At what point are you going to say, enough!

If he finds it a struggle, let him call for help, let him see and feel, how you do every waking hour of your existence. Let him feel totally useless in a situation he doesn't know how to handle. Let him call social services/police to get involved. They never do if you ask, only when your not prepared to do it anymore. Then it becomes their responsibility. Become totally non agreeable to anything they want of you to make their life easy, think of your own. Get to the Dr's and tell them you are having a breakdown with all the stress, no one could put up with this alone. Especially while you are doing it all, even schooling as they can't find anywhere suitable, she probably isn't even at the top of their list, all the while you are getting on with it.

I would also get small hidden cameras around the house, so it captures all the things you are saying happens, as it clearly isn't just what they are saying she has. You might not to wording it correctly, so let them see.

I wish you all the luck in the world. Put your foot down and say your not doing it anymore. Until you do, nothing will change.

If a residential school was possible, I think you should seriously consider it. Instead of thinking of it as losing your daughter, think of it as regaining a healthy relationship with her...you will find spending time with her so much easier if you are not under such unbearable stress. I wonder if she would finally appreciate you if she was away from you?

You're in an abusive relationship.

I think you have to get past the 'I won't abandon her' a placement for children with behavioural issues, isn't you abandoning her, it's putting her needs in front of your own. Some children simply can't function on a norma family environment.

My dd now lives in a placement for children with behavioural issues (slightly different scenario than yours), but tbh she's now doing so much better, I simply couldn't give her what she needed, I don't have the right skills or experience and I'm only 1 person. My dd has a team of people who are employed to look after her, ensure she gets to school, hygiene etc. I still have a lot of input into her life and see her regularly, but I can't tell you what a huge, positive impact, it's had on both me, and my dd.

I also think you need to unpick this idea of abandoning your daughter because of the tragic loss of your son. Do you think you could look at this again with a new perspective that you could be actually saving her by sending her to a residential and conversely failing her by keeping her at home in the current situation?

I say this as someone who has also lost a child and know how that can affect everything.

There are so many good suggestions but I also think you should post in SEN as parents who have not had to deal with the extreme situation you find yourself in really have no idea and can actually be unhelpful.

SSRI's might help, as possibly might ADHD meds (if she was diagnosed), but would your daughter even be open to taking them/having a new assessment?

I don't actually know how you carry on and honestly think it would be better to force a residential setting as soon as you can and pull your life back together (and I am guessing your physical and mental health at this point?) so that you are well enough to advocate for her (possibly at a slight distance) for the rest of your life.

All the advocating etc. takes huge energy and personal resources. I don't think you can manage that when you in the permanent and serious crisis (and yes, an abusive relationship) you describe.

This I such a good thread
I’m reading and taking notes later

Op the main mantra of the parenting mental health is compassion but also self care
It’s the hardest thing
You sound ragged
And you can’t parenting with calmness and compassion if you are in the edge
Take care ❤️

You need a total regime change. This is just painful and damaging for you both.

First, go through this thread and print it out if you can. Next, get a pen and strike through comments by those who don't have PDA or ASD family members. Even if they're experts.

Luckily, i have an 11yo dc who is PDA. We have home ed since they were distressed at preschool and actually, without blowing my own trumpet, we are now in a good place.

It took several years where I had to ignore comments from those who were well meaning but ignorant.

So. Connection is key. I don't know what your child enjoys, but you need to find away to spend non confrontational time with her. The very first thing i would do is go and say that you owe her an apology for hitting her, that you'll never do that again, and be honest. Say, "i thought it might help because people said it would. But it doesn't, it makes things worse, I'm sorry. And I'll never smack you again." If you have introduced violence into your relationship in the past, why are you surprised that she sends this back to you? It's what you've modelled; you had big feelings and that's what you did so....

Next. Everything you put out there, she will reflect back to you. Every cross word, every frustrated grumpy comment will come bouncing back to you. I suspect that you and her are caught in some horrible cycle where you reflect each others feelings back to each other, and then amplify them. Been there, done that. Nightmare. It will take months if not years but you need to model the way that you want her to respond to the situation. Mind you, she's older than my child so she might pick it up quicker.

Next, education. I realised early on that fighting to get support would be a nightmare and I decided to put my energy into actively home educating my dc. They don't like worksheets, lessons. So, we put up displays on the walls (laminated because at first they would rip them down) but I persevered. We spent a lot of time on their interests so - for example - they liked the legend of zelda, and i found a legend of zelda printable cookbook on etsy which I printed and stuck up on their door. They, very slowly, began to consider the foods in the cookbook. Made soups (for me! They don't like soup!), but all progress in expanding their food choices. A few months ago my dc was in a terrible cycle of food and we were very hands off, merely reminded them of how they would feel when they ate junk etc. Now they are the cleanest eater in the house, because the change was theirs; had we tried to restrict or insist, we would definitely definitely still be battling.

Online lessons through groups like the £2 tuition hub, elearn with Amy, theatre of Science, outschool are also available and most of those offer recordings so you can do it when its her time to learn rather than to a schedule created by you. I would tell her that she is responsible for making the inside of her head be an interesting and calm place for her to be (if that makes sense? It does for us), so she needs to learn things. Not necessarily for exams, but just to keep herself same. Also, join local home ed groups on Facebook. Find a asd teen group near you. They might help. Activities of pretty much any kind - but be mindful of sensory issues - so trampoline parks - huge sensory input, maybe overwhelming, definitely overwhelming with banging loud music. Swimming - oddly my dc isn't that find of the swimming but loved the showers after when they don't like showers at home (thinking its the big space? No small cubicle...)

But connection and de-escalating the tension must be the first issue. It sounds like you're both in conflict mode constantly. Who else lives with you?

There was a time when I really doubted my ability to parent my dc but i began following a lot of pda things on Facebook - so, pages like Sally Cat, Spectrumy (general asd) and Harry Thompson. So much of what you describe is trauma, rather than inherent ASD / PDA.

My child this morning brought me a cup of tea, and has let out the pets, (biggish job, think small farm!) and is now playing with their sibling. They tell me I'm their best friend, are affectionate and they try their hardest in everything. But it's all intrinsic, not extrinsic. They aren't doing it for rewards, or because I tell them to (any more than i do for their sibling) - they want to be that person.

But yes. We have been there, with the huge meltdowns. I do recognise that. But I very quickly decided that wasn't how to interact with anyone let alone someone so fragile, so i read a lot. Actually autistic posters on Facebook were such a brilliant resource for me. I didn't agree with every last little thing, but most of it and it really did help.

Aww OP I really do feel for you. My family were in a similar situation to you. My sibling has ASD, learning disability and schizophrenia and was completely out of control and incredibly violent at home.

My mum was fobbed off so many times by SS even when she was saying she couldn't cope. The only thing that got them to listen was she went to a meeting one day and said she'd just reached the end of her tether and if she didnt get the respite she needed sorted there and then she was going to drive herself and my brother off the nearest cliff after the meeting. I know it sounds awful and incredibly extreme, but she was completely broken and it took her threatening that for them to miraculously come up with a load of placements that had never been offered before.

You also need to bear in mind when thinking about residential school that for a young person of your daughters age moving towards independence, it is normal to be getting support from sources other than a parent - school, friends and other adults in activities they do. Your daughter currently has only you and that long term is probably not the best thing for her.

I know you don't want to abandon your child as you see it.

But in you position I would contact social services tell them you are in crisis and ask that they remove your daughter. She is more than you can cope with and are probably actually failing her more by trying to help and support her when you are not able to.

It doesn't need to be permanent. But you need that break.

And I would read the story of Bethany when considering a residential school. Hugely distressing to asd children - on every level from sensory through to depriving the child of the connection necessary to help them regulate.

As I say, strike out the posts from those who don't have at the very least, ASD children, and focus on those who have PDA kids.

I'm out of this thread - posting SEN issues on AIBU is never a good idea, because of the general ignorance of the population. I too was ignorant until I had my child and when I realised those issues I learnt..

Very least, have a look at the PDA Society website.

I often wonder if DS would still have been alive if I had been there for him in his hour of need.

Oh OP, this sounds unimaginably tough. Not asking these for answers but just perhaps to think about- therapy might help, it sounds like (understandably) there's some stuff to untangle around your loss, and that could be impacting how you have been towards DD. To clarify I absolutely am not implying anything wrong or that you've caused anything, but when carrying guilt that from an outside perspective is misplaced but to you feels real, it of course impacts your relationships with your other children and yourself. Was DD old enough to be affected too? Remember that you are important and need support too, and for your DD although its astronomically hard to access, she should be getting support as well from professionals who understand what she is going through and can help put things in place to make life better for her as well as for you.

I haven’t read the full thread. But it is not unreasonable of you to Ask these questions.

I have two children with Asd, and one without (but probably adhd).
My ex has many of the traits you describe in your daughter. I never once thought he was autistic/had autistic traits until me and my eldest DS (then 17) went for his diagnosis. He is high functional, and got the diagnosis Atypical Autism. We talked about me and his Dad with the psychologist, and I always assumed the children had inherited their autism from me. The Dad was not present, but when we described him to the psychologist she said: are you sure he is not autistic? I had assumed he was a psychopath. Come to think of it, there is no reason he cannot be both.

Both my DS display similar violent and MESSY behaviour, but in my case never directed towards me. I thought they copied their Dad’s behaviour, but now I am thinking there is something else to it. The furniture has taken a lot of pounding, and we have had breakages you would not believe, including holes in the walls.

My DD is nonverbal. She has had tendencies towards violence, but with her it is a sensory thing.

What I am trying to say is that despite asd she is responsible for her actions. You need to Get some help, for you and for her. Do you hage sn outreach worker or case worker to contact first of all?

Call social services, explain you are making her homeless.
They will pick her up
Do not be persuaded to ‘accept help’
Arrange to see her 1x a week, possibly at home. 1 hour. Do something she wants in that time- something uncomplicated and pleasant- McDonald’s or pizza. Set boundaries around that nice simple thing: ‘the bin is next to you, here are the McDonald’s wrappers, put them in and after I can pass you the burger’. Any issues, end the meeting and everyone goes home. Try again next time:
Regular, small, safe.
Social services will need to know you are desperate and they will attempt to support you to keep her at home- but it is too much for her to work on at once.
Think about it like this: she needs her relationship with you. You need to feel safe to have that relationship with her. At home those two things can’t happen together. It is your parental responsibility to take a hard decision in order to preserve the relationship she needs.
She may get moved a lot, particularly if she treats foster homes the way she treats yours. But you will still be there: regular, safe contact.

@BestInterests - you sound like you are doing a fantastic job and long may it continue. But really their is an absolutely massive difference between an 11 year old and a teen once hormones kick in, relationship issues, gender identify and the need for independence and privacy etc etc) and home schooling isn’t for every parent or every child.

Have now read the thread.
You do need respite; preferably residential, for you to recover.
How is the situation with Personal Assistants coming into your home in the UK? Would that be an option?

Sadly, in my experience too, I have had to be very blunt when accessing services: no glossing over anything. It is awful. I felt I abandonded my DD when I started to accept residential respite (in a scandinavian country so different system). I can empathise how difficult it is for you with the loss of your DS.

But compared to «normal» kids, you are living an exhausting nightmare version, you will crash on empty completely in the near future, and that will not help anyone.

OP ignore the posts from those that don’t understand and focus on the posts with good advice.

A couple of hours a day with a mentor is not enough support. Education, health and social care are all failing you both. Does DD have an EHCP?

"How is the situation with Personal Assistants coming into your home in the UK? Would that be an option?"

Often with young people with the most complex behavioural needs, it is very difficult to find personal assistants who will work in the young persons home with them. We have funding for it but it has been 3 or 4 years since we have found anyone ( ds is eligible for 2:1 support) who will do it.

Although I see the young person already has a mentor so those hours could be increased.

Can you put her in care. If i were you i would do that.