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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

NC because clearly, I'm such a rubbish parent. ASD meltdowns.

163 replies

Junipercrumble · 06/03/2022 20:32

DD is a teenager with ASD and probably ADHD.
She is extremely intelligent academically, has zero empathy, cannot imagine being in someone else's shoes, approaches every boundary in life as either a boundary she doesnt care to breach and therefore will accept or more commonly, an obstacle to overcome by any means.

She pushes hard against any boundaries if she doesnt agree with them.

I require the patience of a saint to live in the same house as her.

We dont share many values or beliefs, in fact, we hold opposing views, yet in some ways, we are quite similar.

DD screams, swears, punches, kicks, bites, takes my belongings when she chooses, never asks, doesnt accept that I am in charge ever, never considers other people and their needs, controls everything in the house and all I hear is that this is down to her anxiety.

Well, maybe it is, but that doesnt help me to cope with it.

Anytime I try to explain to DD how her actions or words affect me, she blocks my voice out by singing loudly while I'm talking, putting headphones on and listening to music loudly or shuts herself in her room while leaving me to sort out the latest disaster. If I continue to try in a calm way to talk to her, she will become violent and since she is physically stronger and faster than me, I get hurt, or she will tear my phone/tv remote/snack out of my hand/pocket to 'remove my privileges', because I am not behaving myself. 🤔

This infuriates me, because I'm always left to bear the consequences of her actions, whatever those consequences may be.

She cannot see it from my pov and I cannot live her way. 😫

There are so many things she does that are completely inconsiderate to me, but I will describe one day for you.

She lays in bed until she feels like getting up.
She runs herself a bath and despite explaining until I am blue in the face, will top the bath up until there isnt a drop of hot water left.
I then have to switch on the immersion which gives a small amount of hot water, which I can ill afford, or go without showering/washing hair/washing dishes.

She throws all of her clothes around her room, eats in her room, discards dirty sanitary towels on the floor, in fact, she never ever uses a bin or a washing basket, both of which she has.
She helps herself to whatever food, drink, makeup she wants and then just drops it on the floor, never puts anything away or in a bin, no exaggeration.
She cooks anything she wants to cook and usually I end up putting most of it in the bin because she doesnt want it anymore.
She has absolutely no respect for me at all, and I suspect, views me as a mere domestic appliance, whose sole reason for existing is to quietly carry out all of the tasks she doesnt want to do, whilst making this as difficult and challenging a process as humanely possible.
She refuses to do ANYTHING unless she wants to, EVER!!
I am threatened with violence every single day! I am attacked every single day verbally, and every single week physically.
I am walking on eggshells in my own home.Sad

Today, I went for a shower before she had a bath, I was 15 minutes tops, washing my hair, showering, drying and dressing and I come downstairs to find she has mixed 1.5kg of flour, 12 eggs, a pint of milk and 500g of butter into a bowl, covered the kitchen worktops with it, broken eggshells, sloppy paste all over the work surfaces, floor, fridge handles, splattered all over the kettle, cupboard doors were dripping in the mixture, a letter covered in the gloop, 3 baking trays out of the oven covered in gloop, tea towels wet with gloop, and paints out on the sofa 🙈.

When I asked her what she was doing, she tells me to stfu and then blocks her ears and walks out, leaving me to clean AGAIN.

I feel like a 12th century slave. 😭

I cannot understand her complete inability to accept how horrible this is for me to deal with, when she accepts she would hate to do it herself, but apparently, it doesnt occur to her that other people feel that way too.
We have something along these lines most days. 😭

She doesnt like cleaning, but gives no consideration to whether I enjoy cleaning it. (I dont!)

If your child has ASD or ADHD, doesnt have any empathy, doesnt accept boundaries, and you feel as though you are being bullied by them on a daily basis, how do you determine whether this is a part of their ASD, their need for control, their anxieties, or whether they are in fact just a bully?

A psychopath doesnt necessarily have ASD or ADHD, yet they dont have much empathy nor accept boundaries.

I hear SN parents saying their DC cannot control their meltdowns, but what is the difference between a meltdown and someone who is using particular tactics to get their own way?

Are they the same thing?

How do you clearly identify a meltdown as opposed to bad behaviours? I am struggling to see the difference.

DD is inconsiderate. Is that her ASD?
DD doesn't care about how anyone else feels, only how she feels. Is this ASD?
DD screams, punches, kicks, bites and does everything in her power to sabotage what I'm doing when she is annoyed. Is that ASD?
DD is incredibly lazy. Is this also ASD?
How can anyone define what is genuinely ASD and what is simply the actions of a person who doesnt give a shit about anyone except themselves and is only happy when they are getting their own way?

IABU: All of those undesirable and horrible behaviours are directly attributed to ASD and are completely out of the control of someone with ASD.

YANBU: Lots of shitty behaviour is attributed to someone having ASD, but it is also quite possible that the person is simply a horrible bully who has learned they do not need to try to conform to social expectations or norms, nor control their horrible behaviour because they have ASD, or maybe they're actually an undiagnosed psychopath or a sociopath?
Why arent children diagnosed with psychopathy or sociopathy and if children could be diagnosed with those or similar conditions, how many children who were previously thought to have ASD or ADHD would have been diagnosed with psychopathy/sociopathy/antisocial personality disorder instead?

I am really struggling with DD and how I am always expected to have a never ending fountain of understanding and patience when tbh, I dont.

What even is the fundamental differences between a person with ASD, a psychopath and a sociopath?
And how can I know which one of those is DD?

Sad
OP posts:
Junipercrumble · 06/03/2022 23:32

As far as the police are concerned, I have had to call them out twice and both times, they clearly told me they dont usually get involved with SN children and advised me to contact DD's SW.
I explained both times that I needed assistance immediately, which SC couldn't respond to as quickly as the police, so they did come out, but reluctantly.
Should I persist in calling the police if they are reluctant to attend incidents relating to SN?

OP posts:
BuanoKubiamVej · 06/03/2022 23:41

I cross-posted with you saying why you don't want to find a residential school for her. I mean this kindly but you are projecting your own feelings there. You would have felt abandoned if you had been sent to a school like that. That doesn't mean it will be her experience. I am so sorry for your loss of your DS and I can see that this would have a massive effect on your decisions but you aren't thinking rationally.

You are not going to be capable of caring for your DD for much longer. You are very close to the end of your tether. Sooner or later a change is going to come, that is inevitable. If you make it be sooner then that change can happen with more support.

yellowtwo · 06/03/2022 23:44

It sounds like you are being fobbed off a lot.
The police can't just say they don't deal with with incidents in which you are being attacked because your child has SN.
Ring the council, ring the police as much as you need/have too. Start advocating for yourself because these orgs won't do it for you.

Junipercrumble · 06/03/2022 23:45

@Wordlewobble

Watching with interest. I/we have teen 17 DD not diagnosed with anything but can recognise some of the traits your DD displays.

She would take things from my bedroom without asking and lies about having them and make a mess in our room. Solution was to lock our bedroom door.

Her bedroom is an unsanitary mess. We have tried everything to no avail. Still working on this but usually we end up spending several hours tidying it several times a week. As she has crockery, towels, household scissors etc in there.

She never ever apologies and hasn’t for a number of years. But she is very mean and ungrateful but not quite as bad as your Dd. A lot of the time I feel close to tears with her and that I have failed as a parent. She has a best friend, is in 6th form of mainstream school and also has a part time job so she obv doesn’t treat others as badly as she treats us.

Take care OP x

This sounds very similar. DD has learnt to apologise when she wants everyone to move on, so she will hurt or upset someone then say sorry because she believes saying sorry means the other person will resume whichever activity they were doing before the incident. So, DD punches a child, child refuses to engage with DD, DD apologises, then cannot accept that the child still doesnt want to engage with her.

DD doesnt feel remorse at all. I have never known her to feel guilty or remorseful, she just says sorry.

Parenting a child who does not feel empathy or remorse is bloody difficult. She genuinely doesnt care if she hurts someone.

To the posters who asked about DD's friends, no, she doesnt have any.

OP posts:
Hammerspot · 06/03/2022 23:54

OP have you looked at NVR training, it's really designed for parents of children and young people like your daughter. Some places fund it through early help, we paid privately as not available. It was amazing, it's helped lots. Don't get me wrong it's still awful at times but I feel more in control

TheresSomebodyAtTheDoorNeil · 07/03/2022 00:17

Do you ring the police when she assaults you?

TheresSomebodyAtTheDoorNeil · 07/03/2022 00:29

We went through similar with dd and know many others.... You need to seriously push for residential care. You cannot carry on like this, it is not helping your dd at all.

In so many cases it isn't just life changing, it's life saving. You are unable to parent this child, you need help with that like so many others. And that's fine.

greenteafiend · 07/03/2022 06:05

As far as residential school is concerned, I fear DD would feel like she had been abandoned by everyone then and that breaks my heart.
My DS died some years ago, and I promised myself that I would stand by DD and be there for her in every way I could, because I couldn't be there for my DS and I bitterly regret that.
I often wonder if DS would still have been alive if I had been there for him in his hour of need. sad
I cannot bear to lose my only other child, even to residential school, and so that's all tied up with how I feel I suppose.

OP, I'm sorry about what happened to your DS.

Agree with other posters, you need to find a residential school for her. The current situation is not working for either of you, and I agree with PP that you are projecting your own feelings on to her. If you are finding yourself hitting her, you need to take this a sign that you are overwhelmed and are not able to cope with your daughter .For both of your sakes she needs to be somewhere else. Also, she is 15, not 5; it's quite normal for neurotypical 15yos to board. She is not a tiny child.

GlamorousHeifer · 07/03/2022 06:31

You need to look into residential school OP. Getting her I the system now is the kindest thing you can do for her.
I worked with adults with severe autism and the outcomes for the younger ones left to flounder in early adulthood are not good.
What happens when she turns 18 and decides she she can treat other young adults as a punching bag when she doesn't get her own way? She's sheltered with you so far but others will not be so forgiving of her behaviour.

megletthesecond · 07/03/2022 06:53

Sorry to hear what you are dealing with Flowers. I've had no luck with the police. They will only arrest my DD, not diffuse the situation. My DD has been let down for almost a decade and I've been palmed off so many times, it would be like kicking her when she's down if she got arrested.
NVR is OK, but if you don't have supportive family and friends it doesn't work.

TheHoleNineYards · 07/03/2022 07:11

You are not alone and you are not a shit parent.

As a PP mentioned, an amazing woman called Yvonne Newbold has been working really hard to get more support for children and parents in similar circumstances. Her FB group is called Newbold Hope. It has a wealth of research and information. If you can’t find it, PM me and I can share details.

MeditativeRose · 07/03/2022 07:14

Firstly, on the subject of medication, there is no medication route for ASD.

There is a medication route for ADHD. That will need an ADHD diagnosis. You urgently need to access help for your DD on that matter.

Given you have used physical violence as punishment in the past, you may wish to consider whether your doing so is the reason your DD thinks violence is ok.

Using physical violence to try to control behaviour linked to a medical condition is disgusting.

It is very telling that your DD said “don’t start a war with someone with nothing left to lose”. That indicates very deep despair and depression. You need to urgently get your daughter help on that front too.

I agree with pp that you need to take steps to address and ease her anxiety, rather than just piling punishment, rejection and threats onto that anxiety. How you are acting toward your DD will make her anxiety worse- you are throwing petrol on the flames.

You mention that you are in someways very similar to your DD- have you considered that you may yourself have ASD and/or ADHD? They are both conditions that run in families. In which case you may be blind to some behaviours of your own which may be exacerbating or provoking these situations.

It may also be useful to realise that things like repeatedly asking someone to control behaviours they have no or little control over is a waste of time. It will only frustrate you and that frustration will increase tensions.

In particular, when someone is having an anxiety attack, trying to “calmly continue a conversation” about whatever has caused tension at that point will only increase their anxiety. The route to take there is to step right back. With some people it is about giving them time alone, with other about switching to providing comfort. Longer term, you need to address the causes of the anxiety and find strategies to help cope with anxious episodes.

You absolutely have to stop thinking you can treat a medical condition by disciplining someone.

You speak very badly of your child and other ASD children when you say that they are using and sharing manipulative techniques. That mindset is toxic and counterproductive. It makes it seem like your only objective is to control.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 07/03/2022 07:18

Come
And join ‘parenting mental health’ on Facebook
You are not alone
It’s safe space to vent scream cry

Jobsharenightmare · 07/03/2022 07:23

Really sorry to read what you're going through. I used to work in a specialist private home for young people like your daughter with ASD because of the difficulties parents had in trying to life any resemblance of a safe and health life alongside children with such difficulties. It was much easier for staff to cope with than families, simply because it was our sole focus, whereas you are also trying to have a life and have other responsibilities within the home and family.

Being able to understand consequences is something that most of our young people simply could not do. Not because of being psychopaths, but because of their neurological make up with ASD. I'm afraid her behaviour sounds exactly like ALL of clients; if you didn't know they had ASD you'd think selfish, rude, uncooperative, nasty, people you can't stand to be around at times.

It was quite typical of our young people without an intellectual disability but with very extreme neurodiversity. It's so sad because clearly none of them were born into their brains out of choice and were never going to be able to live what society says is any kind of normal life.

GlamorousHeifer · 07/03/2022 07:34

@MeditativeRose it is very naive to believe people with autism/pda/adhd are not/cannot be manipulative.
It may be because of their condition but they will stop at nothing until they achieve the outcome that they want.
If this was her husband/partner she was talking about she would be told quite rightly that someone else's mental health condition is not a reason to accept being physically assaulted in her own home.

lollipoprainbow · 07/03/2022 07:34

I'd go zero tolerance on her. Won't get up? Wake her up. Leaves sanitary towels on the ground? Refuse to buy them for her till she puts them in the bin. She's living like an animal and treating you like a slave. Cut her off. Give her the bare minimum until she goes by your rules. Zero pocket money - turn WiFi off etc. No way would I ever allow myself to be pushed around like that.

Easy for you to say that, have you had any experience of a child with ASD ??

lollipoprainbow · 07/03/2022 07:37

What age was she diagnosed OP? My dd is 10 and is starting to show similar traits, she was diagnosed with ASD two years ago but things are steadily getting worse, getting her up for school is a battlefield, meltdowns are getting bad with the shouting and swearing etc, she's very messy and doesn't care if she upsets me, she shows zero empathy.

Underhisi · 07/03/2022 07:41

"Firstly, on the subject of medication, there is no medication route for ASD."

There is if behaviour is due to anxiety. Anti anxiety medication can often help in this situation.

Quitelikeit · 07/03/2022 07:54

I really feel for you. Absolutely demand anxiety medication. She needs a this ASAP. Call your GP today. I really don’t know what a diagnosis would offer you - I was looking into Pda myself for other reasons and I believe it isn’t diagnosed as it isn’t in the manual or that the medical community cannot agree that it is a condition.

Reconsider sending her to school. You say they can’t meet her needs and I doubt anyone can at the moment.

You should also ask for a carers assessment yourself.

You have the patience of a saint.

Underhisi · 07/03/2022 08:00

Anxiety medication will need to be done through camhs.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 07/03/2022 08:02

lollipoprainbow

Thanks , I’m soft as fuck on my asd son
And now a bit my nt son because I have to work , live and function in the world

Judgement like that is so useless and demoralising
And I now avoid the friends who spout such opinions as it’s fucking ignorant

Thisisworsethananticpated · 07/03/2022 08:05

Underhisi

SSRI are fab for asd anxiety
I’m on them
And I’d love to get son to accept he might need them

BuanoKubiamVej · 07/03/2022 08:07

I know that this isn't relevant to you OP but as this thread will also be read by people who don't know much about autism, I feel it's important to add that a lack of empathy isn't a universal trait in autism and some people with autism have a huge amount of empathy, although sometimes it manifests very differently from how it does in NT people.

There are actually different kinds/aspects of empathy. Being able to detect what other people are feeling based on nonverbal signals is one type. Feeling emotionally affected yourself due to the emotional state of others is a different type. Some people with autism might be unable to do the former but very much have the latter. There's lots of different ways that autism can affect people.

I wonder if the totally inadequate support and help being offered is possibly attributable to people not understanding how bad the situation is with your DD precisely because there are so many ways that autism can present and maybe people who could he helping you are aware of plenty of other 15yos with autism who are capable of functioning within family life and so are maybe not appreciating the differences. It's only a subtle change in language but "she has no empathy because she has autism" is (inaccurate and) a very different statement from "she has autism and her particular profile of tendencies includes..."

lollipoprainbow · 07/03/2022 08:10

@Thisisworsethananticpated some people have no idea Thanks

Wordlewobble · 07/03/2022 08:16

Really sorry OP. DD never says sorry in the house to DH, myself or DS. She might very occasionally be forced into saying a forced sorry if pushed but thats it. Yet occasionally when she talks which is rare she can occasionally be remarkably insightful about how someone in the wider family is thinking or feeling about something.

You really do need support with your DD hang in and don’t give up. Take care xx

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