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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

NC because clearly, I'm such a rubbish parent. ASD meltdowns.

163 replies

Junipercrumble · 06/03/2022 20:32

DD is a teenager with ASD and probably ADHD.
She is extremely intelligent academically, has zero empathy, cannot imagine being in someone else's shoes, approaches every boundary in life as either a boundary she doesnt care to breach and therefore will accept or more commonly, an obstacle to overcome by any means.

She pushes hard against any boundaries if she doesnt agree with them.

I require the patience of a saint to live in the same house as her.

We dont share many values or beliefs, in fact, we hold opposing views, yet in some ways, we are quite similar.

DD screams, swears, punches, kicks, bites, takes my belongings when she chooses, never asks, doesnt accept that I am in charge ever, never considers other people and their needs, controls everything in the house and all I hear is that this is down to her anxiety.

Well, maybe it is, but that doesnt help me to cope with it.

Anytime I try to explain to DD how her actions or words affect me, she blocks my voice out by singing loudly while I'm talking, putting headphones on and listening to music loudly or shuts herself in her room while leaving me to sort out the latest disaster. If I continue to try in a calm way to talk to her, she will become violent and since she is physically stronger and faster than me, I get hurt, or she will tear my phone/tv remote/snack out of my hand/pocket to 'remove my privileges', because I am not behaving myself. 🤔

This infuriates me, because I'm always left to bear the consequences of her actions, whatever those consequences may be.

She cannot see it from my pov and I cannot live her way. 😫

There are so many things she does that are completely inconsiderate to me, but I will describe one day for you.

She lays in bed until she feels like getting up.
She runs herself a bath and despite explaining until I am blue in the face, will top the bath up until there isnt a drop of hot water left.
I then have to switch on the immersion which gives a small amount of hot water, which I can ill afford, or go without showering/washing hair/washing dishes.

She throws all of her clothes around her room, eats in her room, discards dirty sanitary towels on the floor, in fact, she never ever uses a bin or a washing basket, both of which she has.
She helps herself to whatever food, drink, makeup she wants and then just drops it on the floor, never puts anything away or in a bin, no exaggeration.
She cooks anything she wants to cook and usually I end up putting most of it in the bin because she doesnt want it anymore.
She has absolutely no respect for me at all, and I suspect, views me as a mere domestic appliance, whose sole reason for existing is to quietly carry out all of the tasks she doesnt want to do, whilst making this as difficult and challenging a process as humanely possible.
She refuses to do ANYTHING unless she wants to, EVER!!
I am threatened with violence every single day! I am attacked every single day verbally, and every single week physically.
I am walking on eggshells in my own home.Sad

Today, I went for a shower before she had a bath, I was 15 minutes tops, washing my hair, showering, drying and dressing and I come downstairs to find she has mixed 1.5kg of flour, 12 eggs, a pint of milk and 500g of butter into a bowl, covered the kitchen worktops with it, broken eggshells, sloppy paste all over the work surfaces, floor, fridge handles, splattered all over the kettle, cupboard doors were dripping in the mixture, a letter covered in the gloop, 3 baking trays out of the oven covered in gloop, tea towels wet with gloop, and paints out on the sofa 🙈.

When I asked her what she was doing, she tells me to stfu and then blocks her ears and walks out, leaving me to clean AGAIN.

I feel like a 12th century slave. 😭

I cannot understand her complete inability to accept how horrible this is for me to deal with, when she accepts she would hate to do it herself, but apparently, it doesnt occur to her that other people feel that way too.
We have something along these lines most days. 😭

She doesnt like cleaning, but gives no consideration to whether I enjoy cleaning it. (I dont!)

If your child has ASD or ADHD, doesnt have any empathy, doesnt accept boundaries, and you feel as though you are being bullied by them on a daily basis, how do you determine whether this is a part of their ASD, their need for control, their anxieties, or whether they are in fact just a bully?

A psychopath doesnt necessarily have ASD or ADHD, yet they dont have much empathy nor accept boundaries.

I hear SN parents saying their DC cannot control their meltdowns, but what is the difference between a meltdown and someone who is using particular tactics to get their own way?

Are they the same thing?

How do you clearly identify a meltdown as opposed to bad behaviours? I am struggling to see the difference.

DD is inconsiderate. Is that her ASD?
DD doesn't care about how anyone else feels, only how she feels. Is this ASD?
DD screams, punches, kicks, bites and does everything in her power to sabotage what I'm doing when she is annoyed. Is that ASD?
DD is incredibly lazy. Is this also ASD?
How can anyone define what is genuinely ASD and what is simply the actions of a person who doesnt give a shit about anyone except themselves and is only happy when they are getting their own way?

IABU: All of those undesirable and horrible behaviours are directly attributed to ASD and are completely out of the control of someone with ASD.

YANBU: Lots of shitty behaviour is attributed to someone having ASD, but it is also quite possible that the person is simply a horrible bully who has learned they do not need to try to conform to social expectations or norms, nor control their horrible behaviour because they have ASD, or maybe they're actually an undiagnosed psychopath or a sociopath?
Why arent children diagnosed with psychopathy or sociopathy and if children could be diagnosed with those or similar conditions, how many children who were previously thought to have ASD or ADHD would have been diagnosed with psychopathy/sociopathy/antisocial personality disorder instead?

I am really struggling with DD and how I am always expected to have a never ending fountain of understanding and patience when tbh, I dont.

What even is the fundamental differences between a person with ASD, a psychopath and a sociopath?
And how can I know which one of those is DD?

Sad
OP posts:
twominutesmore · 06/03/2022 21:18

OP, I wonder if it would be worth posting on the SEN parenting board too.

I don't think I can help but feel so very sorry for your situation.

I am a teacher and in our area there is a mechanism by which I can refer a family in crisis for support. I know she is out of school but there must surely be something similar. Could you self refer or go via your GP? I think you may have to talk about a 'child in need' assessment as you can no longer meet her needs at home.

Theunamedcat · 06/03/2022 21:18

You still need to call the police when she gets violent sen or not it needs to be clear that is not allowed and maybe you will get help faster if you start making more noise about it

Sen children even PDA can learn appropriate behaviour because does she fuck act like this everywhere

Nomoresmoresthensnores · 06/03/2022 21:29

All the time I read on MN people posting advice about being hardline on children/young people and zero tolerance.
Yes that can work in specific circumstances with certain children BUT evidence in all areas points to it not actually being that successful. Even schools have evidence this approach doesn't work. (Yet DfE keeps on ploughing forward with draconian guidance).
If a child/young person has poor behaviour there is a reason behind it. Finding the reason is surely the key to solving it. SEN or no SEN. Most kids want to do well and please others (most of the time..)
I spent years listening to the advice of people who said I should just be firmer or this or that. Utter rubbish. Its only when I learnt that 'behaviour is communication' that I turned things around for my child.
Sure he is still super annoying and challenging but we aren't locked in a daily battle and school aren't either (surprisingly the Head didn't know this either. Although his lovely teachers did).
Not time to give up on your daughter yet. She's telling you she's angry frustrated and unhappy and she wants you to fix it coz you're her safe space.

ThreeLocusts · 06/03/2022 21:31

OP this sounds so hard. No real advice but fwiw, my half brother is on the spectrum and he was a nightmare as a teenager. Once put a classmate in hospital.

Now he is approaching 30, living independently, still peculiar but quite sweet. But his mum had a lot of help with him, it sounds to me like you need more. Are there any charities you can try? All the best.

SmellyOldOwls · 06/03/2022 21:35

Have you tried or thought about residential special school placement?

peachy3 · 06/03/2022 21:35

How does her dad react to this behaviour/does she act like this around him? Or is it just with you?

This behaviour does sound really extreme and I truly feel for you OP. It does sound as though there’s more to diagnose with her than just ASD and ADHD.

mantlepiece · 06/03/2022 21:46

The main thing I take from your telling of the situation is that it has to change.
It is not just your distress and safety that is the issue but that the current situation is not working for her either.

At her age as an intelligent person, either the educational services or the social services need to investigate and develop a way forward. They are the professionals after all. They are failing your child as are you if you cannot cope with what she is subjecting you to. I don’t think anyone could or should cope with what you describe.

Would you consider residential care for her? That may be the only way that the necessary services to help her would be put in place. It is worth a try.

I also think as she is 15 time is of the essence, as once she is an adult very little help is available. If you think there is a chance that she can be helped, you need to access it now as a matter of urgency.

magicstars · 06/03/2022 21:48

Hi OP. I have no experience personally of this but I wanted to send a message of support. You do sound pretty incredible. Many would have broken by now.
I would be looking into residential options for her if I were you. Speak firmly to her social work team (even if she has no allocated worker at present). Explain that this will cause breakdown of your family if you don't get robust intervention very soon. Escalate it to senior managers & local counsellor if you are not being heard. Be completely honest about the level of stress this is putting you both under.

twominutesmore · 06/03/2022 21:49

And you don't sound like a rubbish parent. You sound like someone at the end of their reserves, with no help and nowhere to turn. I am sure you will already have tried nvr and the other strategies suggested here. You need help and may need to shout loudly and repeatedly to get it. Your dd is very lucky to have you even if she doesn't know it.

twominutesmore · 06/03/2022 21:51

And I agree with pp who said do it now because there is even less support available once she is 18.

Morph22010 · 06/03/2022 21:51

As an aside I was told previously that psychopaths tend to have a very high theory of mind whereas autistic people tend to have low theory of mind. Theory of mind is to recognise other people’s mental state and how it effects them so is different to empathy

Merryoldgoat · 06/03/2022 21:51

Oh OP - this sounds like hell. I’m so sorry you’re living like this.

When would she be able to move to supported living? She can’t stay with you like this.

What does she actually WANT from life? She must have some wants and desires.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 06/03/2022 22:00

@Junipercrumble

DD is 15. She doesnt have a school placement because the council cannot find a school that can meet her needs. She has not attended mainstream for many years now and every other placement has failed due to her being unable to cope. Sad

Her father is supportive but we are separated and my DP doesnt live with me because he cannot cope with DD's manipulation and violence.

I love DD with all my heart but I dont believe she has the capacity to care for anyone.

We are on the disability team with SC and DD spends a couple of hours a day with mentors.

Could her father not take her in? For your own safety?

Failing that, it's probably better for her for you to say Enough whilst she's under 16 and SS will have no choice but to find a full time placement for her rather than palming you off until she's 18 and they say 'we can't do anything, she's an adult'.

Hankunamatata · 06/03/2022 22:09

I'd be looking for a residential placement anywhere in the uk that could be suitable. No parent will have the skills to deal with such a high levels of needs.

Hellokittyninja · 06/03/2022 22:15

This is so sad, my DS has PDA so I do understand. Is she medicated for her anxiety at all? That has helped us hugely. Sorry for you and for your DD.

BOOTS52 · 06/03/2022 22:18

Am sorry have no good advise but just wanted to say how hard this must be for you and hope you get that other diagnosis and extra help as you cannot continue on like this. I know you love her but this will break you down completely. Is there any time you can get a weeks respite as in a residential place so you get some time for yourself. For the future this may be something you have to think about as her needs and extreme moods become too much to handle. Cannot imagine what it is like for you and you are only human like the rest of us. Hope you get some good advise on here and wish you well,

ToryRussians · 06/03/2022 22:19

Sympathies OP. You sound totally exhausted and drained.

Time to get her into a res school… have you got any ASC charities near you to support you through the allocation process? She needs professional help.

tkwal · 06/03/2022 22:46

Walking away doesn't work. I get followed and mocked. Unless you are living this you can't comprehend how soul destroying it is. It has taken us 9 years to get to the assessment stage such is the lack of resources. Now the assessment is done it will be another 18 months til anything else will be done. The advice we have been given is to call the police following every instance of physical assault. Are they going to come out twice a day (at least) every day ?. We don't have a single door that closes properly. Kitchen doors are damaged and worktops attacked with anything handy, windows broken. Yet when we ask for help from SS we are told that they wouldn't be able to find a Foster place or even respite. I feel like I am screaming into the abyss so I can sympathise with OP , I hate to hear of anyone else going through this

ThatsNotMyGolem · 06/03/2022 22:53

This reply has been deleted

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Wordlewobble · 06/03/2022 23:17

Watching with interest. I/we have teen 17 DD not diagnosed with anything but can recognise some of the traits your DD displays.

She would take things from my bedroom without asking and lies about having them and make a mess in our room. Solution was to lock our bedroom door.

Her bedroom is an unsanitary mess. We have tried everything to no avail. Still working on this but usually we end up spending several hours tidying it several times a week. As she has crockery, towels, household scissors etc in there.

She never ever apologies and hasn’t for a number of years. But she is very mean and ungrateful but not quite as bad as your Dd. A lot of the time I feel close to tears with her and that I have failed as a parent. She has a best friend, is in 6th form of mainstream school and also has a part time job so she obv doesn’t treat others as badly as she treats us.

Take care OP x

ExtraOnion · 06/03/2022 23:21

Hello there

I have a 15 year old daughter with “High Functioning Autism” (we are 18 months into diagnosis, nearly there !)

You are not alone
You are not a terrible parent
It’s really hard

My daughter hasn’t been in school for 18 months - though school are supportive. She does occasionally go in, and they have entered her for all her exams - but who knows if she will go in.

She can be really challenging, and we have had variances of the behaviour you outlined above. We managed to access some great support, around “mindful parenting” which helped us change our way of parenting.

My daughter went through that phase of not getting up, having a stinking horrible bedroom, personal hygiene being a low priority. I recognised she was depressed, so we had to work through that.

I’m telling you now, she is not enjoying this way of life. Does she know she had ASD? Has she accessed any support ? Have you? Have a look at The Autistic Girls Network?

One of the things I now do differently is that I get involved in her interests, just to start the chat. Best time to say stuff to her, is when she in engrossed in one of her obsessions.

We had to learn to celebrate the small victories.. getting up, having a chat etc

yellowtwo · 06/03/2022 23:22

Junipercrumble

You aren't a rubbish parent. This all sounds awful, so sorry you are going though this.
Am I wrong in saying that in the UK a child must go to school at that age? Are the council helping you at all OP?

www.mencap.org.uk/advice-and-support/children-and-young-people/your-childs-rights-education

Porcupineintherough · 06/03/2022 23:24

@tkwal call the police twice a day and you'll find SS step up far more quickly.

Junipercrumble · 06/03/2022 23:27

Thank you for all of the messages of support and all of the advice.
I am going through it and making notes to take action.
As far as residential school is concerned, I fear DD would feel like she had been abandoned by everyone then and that breaks my heart.
My DS died some years ago, and I promised myself that I would stand by DD and be there for her in every way I could, because I couldn't be there for my DS and I bitterly regret that.
I often wonder if DS would still have been alive if I had been there for him in his hour of need. Sad
I cannot bear to lose my only other child, even to residential school, and so that's all tied up with how I feel I suppose.

To the posters who say zero tolerance, I agree that this can be an extremely effective way to manage a child who cares for whichever consequences that are implemented, but honestly, DD doesnt care for most consequences.
Previously, I have stripped her room of everything and waited for her to 'earn' her privileges back, but once she realises she has to put the effort in to regaining her privileges, she loses interest in them.
She tells me not to start a war with someone who has nothing left to lose. Shock
Once she has lost privileges, she feels no desire whatsoever to work with me at all and doesnt want the item, because as she tells me, she wont have me holding said item over her.

If giving her a slap/smack was effective, and brought about lasting changes, I would be the first to do that, and if that makes me a shit parent for saying that, so be it.
In the past, I have resorted to physical punishment, mainly due to being all out of any other ideas.
Do you know what DD does when she is smacked?
She laughs hysterically and begs for more Confused
She has an incredibly high pain threshold, to the point that when she broke her leg jumping off of a wall, she had to be restrained to stop her trying to get up and walk.
Whenever she attempted to move, she began fitting because of the pain she couldn't feel.
The paramedics said this was her bodies way of coping with the injury.
I had never heard of a child fitting from pain but not feeling it before this incident.
In many ways, she copes better now than she did when she was younger. She doesnt need restraining regularly anymore which is a blessing, because it's incredibly difficult to witness your child being restrained by 4 adults for more than an hour while she calms down.
Eventually, she would calm down, but wouldnt learn not to repeat the behaviours the following day, so she spent years being restrained every single school day, when she was in a specialist SEMH school.
Unfortunately, she also learnt many more manipulative techniques whilst at that school, mainly from the other children. Sad
DD doesnt get any medication, the consultant merely pointed me in the direction of the autistic society website and gave me a leaflet, alongside a follow up appointment in 6 months time to check how we are coping, despite my pleas for help.
Hopefully I've covered most of what has been mentioned.
Apologies if I have missed anything, but once again, thank you for the invaluable advice and support.
I feel like I'm not on my own. Smile

OP posts:
BuanoKubiamVej · 06/03/2022 23:32

It's sounding to me as if she would genuinely benefit from a place at a residential specialist school. Finding an environment that can teach her to self-regulate and function in the world without a slave may be the most loving thing that you can do right now. If you just put up with the torment a few more years until she is 18 the available places that can help her will be so much more difficult to access, if they exist at all. A better outcome would follow if you refuse to deal with this any more.