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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

NC because clearly, I'm such a rubbish parent. ASD meltdowns.

163 replies

Junipercrumble · 06/03/2022 20:32

DD is a teenager with ASD and probably ADHD.
She is extremely intelligent academically, has zero empathy, cannot imagine being in someone else's shoes, approaches every boundary in life as either a boundary she doesnt care to breach and therefore will accept or more commonly, an obstacle to overcome by any means.

She pushes hard against any boundaries if she doesnt agree with them.

I require the patience of a saint to live in the same house as her.

We dont share many values or beliefs, in fact, we hold opposing views, yet in some ways, we are quite similar.

DD screams, swears, punches, kicks, bites, takes my belongings when she chooses, never asks, doesnt accept that I am in charge ever, never considers other people and their needs, controls everything in the house and all I hear is that this is down to her anxiety.

Well, maybe it is, but that doesnt help me to cope with it.

Anytime I try to explain to DD how her actions or words affect me, she blocks my voice out by singing loudly while I'm talking, putting headphones on and listening to music loudly or shuts herself in her room while leaving me to sort out the latest disaster. If I continue to try in a calm way to talk to her, she will become violent and since she is physically stronger and faster than me, I get hurt, or she will tear my phone/tv remote/snack out of my hand/pocket to 'remove my privileges', because I am not behaving myself. 🤔

This infuriates me, because I'm always left to bear the consequences of her actions, whatever those consequences may be.

She cannot see it from my pov and I cannot live her way. 😫

There are so many things she does that are completely inconsiderate to me, but I will describe one day for you.

She lays in bed until she feels like getting up.
She runs herself a bath and despite explaining until I am blue in the face, will top the bath up until there isnt a drop of hot water left.
I then have to switch on the immersion which gives a small amount of hot water, which I can ill afford, or go without showering/washing hair/washing dishes.

She throws all of her clothes around her room, eats in her room, discards dirty sanitary towels on the floor, in fact, she never ever uses a bin or a washing basket, both of which she has.
She helps herself to whatever food, drink, makeup she wants and then just drops it on the floor, never puts anything away or in a bin, no exaggeration.
She cooks anything she wants to cook and usually I end up putting most of it in the bin because she doesnt want it anymore.
She has absolutely no respect for me at all, and I suspect, views me as a mere domestic appliance, whose sole reason for existing is to quietly carry out all of the tasks she doesnt want to do, whilst making this as difficult and challenging a process as humanely possible.
She refuses to do ANYTHING unless she wants to, EVER!!
I am threatened with violence every single day! I am attacked every single day verbally, and every single week physically.
I am walking on eggshells in my own home.Sad

Today, I went for a shower before she had a bath, I was 15 minutes tops, washing my hair, showering, drying and dressing and I come downstairs to find she has mixed 1.5kg of flour, 12 eggs, a pint of milk and 500g of butter into a bowl, covered the kitchen worktops with it, broken eggshells, sloppy paste all over the work surfaces, floor, fridge handles, splattered all over the kettle, cupboard doors were dripping in the mixture, a letter covered in the gloop, 3 baking trays out of the oven covered in gloop, tea towels wet with gloop, and paints out on the sofa 🙈.

When I asked her what she was doing, she tells me to stfu and then blocks her ears and walks out, leaving me to clean AGAIN.

I feel like a 12th century slave. 😭

I cannot understand her complete inability to accept how horrible this is for me to deal with, when she accepts she would hate to do it herself, but apparently, it doesnt occur to her that other people feel that way too.
We have something along these lines most days. 😭

She doesnt like cleaning, but gives no consideration to whether I enjoy cleaning it. (I dont!)

If your child has ASD or ADHD, doesnt have any empathy, doesnt accept boundaries, and you feel as though you are being bullied by them on a daily basis, how do you determine whether this is a part of their ASD, their need for control, their anxieties, or whether they are in fact just a bully?

A psychopath doesnt necessarily have ASD or ADHD, yet they dont have much empathy nor accept boundaries.

I hear SN parents saying their DC cannot control their meltdowns, but what is the difference between a meltdown and someone who is using particular tactics to get their own way?

Are they the same thing?

How do you clearly identify a meltdown as opposed to bad behaviours? I am struggling to see the difference.

DD is inconsiderate. Is that her ASD?
DD doesn't care about how anyone else feels, only how she feels. Is this ASD?
DD screams, punches, kicks, bites and does everything in her power to sabotage what I'm doing when she is annoyed. Is that ASD?
DD is incredibly lazy. Is this also ASD?
How can anyone define what is genuinely ASD and what is simply the actions of a person who doesnt give a shit about anyone except themselves and is only happy when they are getting their own way?

IABU: All of those undesirable and horrible behaviours are directly attributed to ASD and are completely out of the control of someone with ASD.

YANBU: Lots of shitty behaviour is attributed to someone having ASD, but it is also quite possible that the person is simply a horrible bully who has learned they do not need to try to conform to social expectations or norms, nor control their horrible behaviour because they have ASD, or maybe they're actually an undiagnosed psychopath or a sociopath?
Why arent children diagnosed with psychopathy or sociopathy and if children could be diagnosed with those or similar conditions, how many children who were previously thought to have ASD or ADHD would have been diagnosed with psychopathy/sociopathy/antisocial personality disorder instead?

I am really struggling with DD and how I am always expected to have a never ending fountain of understanding and patience when tbh, I dont.

What even is the fundamental differences between a person with ASD, a psychopath and a sociopath?
And how can I know which one of those is DD?

Sad
OP posts:
Phineyj · 07/03/2022 18:19

We also did NVR and it saved us.

I don't have much to add to the sensible posts here other than Flowers.

I have no words for how pathetic your ex is to leave you in this situation. Even at our rock bottom (which wasn't as bad as yours as DC was younger so less strong) we could take turns. We got pretty close t divorce though.

So NVR has worked for us and also fitting solid locks to one room so we can make calls or protect ourselves in rages and also to the ensuite so we don't have her bursting into showers.

Things that make you flip out like the hot water - maybe only put it on when you're about to take a shower? We have an electric shower that heats its own water.

One useful technique I learnt from The Explosive Child I think (or maybe 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child) is to have positive images of your child to hand - they meant mentally but I have actually made PowerPoints at times. It helps re humanise the situation.

Something I liked a lot about the NVR was the trainer was neurodiverse and I would guess, a handful as a child.

WalkingOnTheCracks · 08/03/2022 00:46

@Jellyfishjean

I'd go zero tolerance on her. Won't get up? Wake her up. Leaves sanitary towels on the ground? Refuse to buy them for her till she puts them in the bin. She's living like an animal and treating you like a slave. Cut her off. Give her the bare minimum until she goes by your rules. Zero pocket money - turn WiFi off etc. No way would I ever allow myself to be pushed around like that.
There's a lot of ill-informed, ignorant, dangerous advice on MN, but this is just about the most reprehensible and irresponsible I've ever seen.

How do we get it deleted?

notsohippychick · 08/03/2022 13:25

Not helpful is it. Clearly no understanding of PDA or ASD. Or people in general 😂

Thisisworsethananticpated · 08/03/2022 13:48

Report it
A few have been deleted already

Op sending Flowers

Jesus Christ it’s like vinegar in a wound isn’t it

Valeriekat · 09/03/2022 06:34

@TheresSomebodyAtTheDoorNeil

Do you ring the police when she assaults you?
Read the thread!
skeptile · 09/03/2022 07:11

I recommend Ross Greene's 'Lives in the balance' website, and his books.

I have a well thumbed copy of Bo Hejlskov Elven's 'No fighting, no biting, no screaming.' It is brilliant.

In one of your posts, you mention that in the past your daughter was restrained on multiple occasions, by up to 4 adults, for up to an hour at a time, until she 'calmed down.' I think it's sensible to consider that she has suffered severe and lasting trauma due to these 'behavioural interventions', which are now illegal in some jurisdictions, and at least recognised as poor and unethical practice in others. You will find multiple testimonies from autistic adults and young people about the lasting damage restraint and seclusion techniques have caused them.

I feel for you, and for your DD. My DH and DS are autistic, as am I. DS and I are PDA and ADHD. DH and I have speculated that PDA might be a form of autistic PTSD.

WigglesWaggles · 09/03/2022 07:43

Hi, I couldn't read and run.
I also have a DC with autism and he can also be extremely challenging. He doesn't show any empathy. Sometimes I wonder if he even loves me. He smashes things, screams, shouts physically hurts me. I was told that he just says sorry because he's learned that from others but that he doesn't actually understand why he's saying sorry or the feelings behind that.

I've tried all sorts and I will be honest nothing works, taking things away just makes things worse. Any kind of conversation about it just gets a grunt. I feel a lot of the time that he doesn't even like me. I have experienced most of what you talk about in your post. Unfortunately there is little help out there.

I also find it so hard to distinguish between what is cause by ASD and what is just excuse me but little shit behaviour. I've also noticed that since being in an ASD unit for school he makes more excuses for himself/ can be manipulative with behaviours.

I too have tried getting help and was given a key worker by SS but the quickly said you don't really need the help the kids are safe and looked after and that was that.

If you would like someone to talk to with experience of this please feel free to message me. It can be nice just to know we are not alone. I understand what you mean about residential and personally I would not be going down that route either. Regardless of how he is it isn't his fault. No judgement to what others do but that's my opinion. Apparently they are worse with us because we are their safe place and behaviour is communication x

skeptile · 09/03/2022 07:49

I just re-read that she suffered daily restraint for 'years' as a child. Autistic people cannot 'learn' from the experience of restraint where the behaviour leading to the restraint is a communication that there is something in the school environment beyond their capacity to manage. It sounds as though her specialist school failed to provide her with an appropriately supportive environment, and then physically assaulted her when she acted out. At the very least, she spent years in an unsafe environment where she was being repeatedly restrained.

It sounds as though empathy was not modeled to her by her educators.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 09/03/2022 09:45

skeptile
Ops DD ? Sweet Jesus

Op I’m thinking of ya , please do Read and you are not alone
The main way I’ve learnt to cope with things via speaking with other parents with same

You are not alone and people want to help Flowers

skeptile · 09/03/2022 10:05

Thisisworsethananticpated Yes, it is deeply distressing to read. OP wrote:

'In many ways, she copes better now than she did when she was younger. She doesnt need restraining regularly anymore which is a blessing, because it's incredibly difficult to witness your child being restrained by 4 adults for more than an hour while she calms down.
Eventually, she would calm down, but wouldnt learn not to repeat the behaviours the following day, so she spent years being restrained every single school day, when she was in a specialist SEMH school.'

OP's DD isn't sociopathic or psychopathic: she's an autistic child who suffered severe trauma as a child on a daily basis for years, and now hates herself and all the adults around her.

skeptile · 09/03/2022 10:09

I would like to withdraw my comment that OP's DD 'now hates herself and all the adults around her', and apologise for any offence that comment may have caused. I was projecting my own feelings onto OP's DD. I was extremely distressed to read about the lack of empathetic support that OP's DD endured at the hands of 'specialist' educators.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 09/03/2022 11:52

skeptile

The more we read the more empathetic I feel to op and her DD
They are humans who have suffered more than any human should have

lborgia · 09/03/2022 11:53

Here's the problem for me.

Being a parent is not the hardest thing in a world. It's tough, but doable, all things being equal.

Being a carer, when the recipient is your child, is unrelenting, and breaks a lot of us.

In the old days, children like this were institutionalised, which was cruel and they had no idea what these "patients" actually felt like, or what might've been possible for them if they'd been cared for individually.

Once it became known that it was better for children to be cared for by their parents, then this child-centred approach took over, BUT not only was it economical by comparison, it was easy to cut back, and cut back on support services because carers don't have the standing, or energy to be heard.

The reality is, however much the child benefits from being at home/ not abandoned, parents are not equipped to deal with it unaided.

There is a HUGE chasm between where we are now, and the ideal. A team approach, which means the parent has a chance to be a parent, without being burnt out by the difficult behaviours that come with all children becoming adults, but magnified by their additional needs.

If parents aren't given the proper information right at the beginning, then it will get worse and worse, because they simply don't understand why their child behaves the way they do, and so they spiral down together. Even with all the education and good will in the world, it is more than one person can handle.

If parents don't then get practical day to day support, respite, and time out, they are going to get to a point where they are not able to parent or act as carer.

I have spent a lot of the last few months trying to work out how I could stop being in this world, without leaving my children shattered.

Because however fragile that connection sometimes seems, their parents are still the most important emotional contact they have.

Unfortunately, the parents (who am I kidding, mothers) end up broken, unemployable, suicidal.

I have no help for you, except that maybe, instead of calling the police twice a day, you call the social worker twice a day. Squeaky wheel.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 09/03/2022 12:42

lborgia
You are so so right ❤️

In January I got desperate and hit hard at gp, social services , Cahms etc
Not we are getting some help
Not a lot but it’s helping
But the energy it took to make those calls

And I’m considering finally cutting my hours
I can’t work 40-50 hours a week anymore

lborgia · 09/03/2022 12:56

I’m glad you got your voice heard a bit. And I’m really glad you didn’t say you had to leave work altogether. I am in the great position that I dont’ have to work all the time, but as a result everyone thinks I should be able to just concentrate on the children, but that brings it’s own difficulties. Plus I’m sure the schools etc listen to me less because I’m “just” a mother.

I keep going back to work for a few weeks or months at a time because it’s the only time I feel relatively competent, and as if I’m known for something other than as a failing mother.

One day. One day I will find out who to shag/kill/kidnap to get the world to take notice of our godforsaken situations. But I am not sure I’ll ever have the energy to do any of those things Grin

Thisisworsethananticpated · 09/03/2022 13:00

You aren’t a failing mother madam !
Read your earlier post please again
And retract that
X

lborgia · 09/03/2022 13:08

Ha. Well I meant that this is the strong impression given by school types etc. but I suppose I’m not too impressed that I haven’t been able to solve all this single handed.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 09/03/2022 13:13

Are you a
Social worker
Mental health worker
Educational psychologist
Psychologist
Asd and behavioural expert ?
Medical professional

No
Me neither

Your school need to be kinder and more aware

lborgia · 09/03/2022 13:16
Grin
Junipercrumble · 10/03/2022 13:46

I have just sat down and read through the posts on this thread.
The last couple of pages were difficult to read through my eyes leaking. Sad
It has warmed my heart to read such supportive messages.
My poor poor DD!!
I have been living with a fantasy that DD is in fact NT and it is my rubbish parenting that has created this situation.
I felt like I could change the outcomes, the behaviour, if only I could parent her effectively, but now I am beginning to see that DD needs help and support, to feel like she is loved and supported rather than feeling lost and not good enough.
I need to stop thinking she is deliberately trying to annoy me or upset me and start thinking she is doing her best and struggling.
This is a difficult transition for me to make, but I'm going to try.
Try not to get into a battle ground situation with her.
Try not to see her behaviours as an attack on me personally.

She has been treated extremely badly by professionals.
The place where she was restrained was not an SEMH school, it was a behavioural unit, although I could see the SEMH school was also terrible for her, full of punishments and rewards. They didn't understand her needs and I am happy she is not enduring their draconian methods anymore.

When I lost my DS, i thought i would never be happy again. I poured all of my heart and soul into him, never considering for a moment that our time was limited.
I am afraid to pour myself into anyone else ever again, because i dont think i could bear that pain again.

Thank you for explaining to me a little of how the world and people appear to DD. This has helped me enormously.
It has made me realise that DD isnt here to make my life hell. It's her way of showing me that she is struggling and needs support.
To the poster who said I appear to want to control DD, I understand what you mean.
If i have any defence, it would be to say that my intention was to teach DD to conform, to fit in, so as to make her (and my) life run smoother.
There is little understanding or patience ime for children, indeed people, who do not comply with their superiors, whether that be their teachers, their elders or their parents.
Life is difficult and stressful for these people and I wanted DD to avoid the judgement and condemnation of people.

This thread has been the best thing I have done in years.
The understanding, help and support you have shown me has helped me see things a little differently.
I thank you all beyond measure.
Flowers

OP posts:
Phineyj · 10/03/2022 16:29

Aw OP, I'm glad some comments were helpful. After I posted, I remembered the book 'My daughter is not naughty' by Jane Alison Sherwin. Similar situation.

StScholastica · 10/03/2022 17:15

Oh Bloody hell OP, I've had that Eureka moment too. As the Mother of an ASD DD, the teen years were definitely the worst.
It's so bloody hard and people who haven't been there just don't understand st all.
My DD explained that when someone asks her to do something (politely) she doesn't hear "please go and tidy your room". What she hears in her head is "Get upstairs now, do it now, do it immediately you lazy fucker, DO IT NOW" with war sounds in the background Sad So she just becomes really stressed and anxious and the giant or flight kicks in.
Once I understood her, things started to get better. There is hope OP, there really is, my DD is in a relationship, with an amazing tech career, yet as a teen she hardly got out of bed and it looked like she hated us and herself.

StScholastica · 10/03/2022 17:16

Fight* (not giant!)

Thisisworsethananticpated · 10/03/2022 20:53

Op I’m
Glad this thread has helped you
From the bottom of my heart ❤️
It’s really hard
And the triple factors of

  • trying to accept, whilst in parallel trying to get help to address
  • feeling judged
  • feeling guilty

Are very hard and and an especial burden for parents with kids with mental health problems

Thisisworsethananticpated · 10/03/2022 20:57

StScholastica
Lovely post . I have hope for my son too
Both
But also had police involvement which didn’t … well it wasn’t the best day