I need to speak to them, don’t I?

[JanetPluchinsky]

DD is just turned 18. She’s been with her boyfriend a year.

Before Christmas she basically lived at his for about three months and only came home briefly once a week or so, to fetch things. She did spend Christmas Day with us but couldn’t wait to go back to his house. She spent the whole day telling us how much better and nicer his parents are than us, better food, nicer house, better Xmas tree ffs. We’ve tried really hard to not rise to this btw.

She’s been spending much more time at home since the start of the year, which has been lovely, and I gave her a job at the restaurant I manage.

She constantly asks me and DH for lifts and money. Constantly. It’s a running joke that I’ll say ‘money or a lift?’ to whoever’s next to me before answering the phone to her and it is ALWAYS one or the other. We pay for an open bus pass for her btw and she still gets £20 pocket money a month on top of about £200 pt wage (pocket money is to match what we give 10yo DS because she said it was unfair).

So this is all background. Yesterday she was meant to be working until midnight. She usually gets a lift home with me, or a colleague, or the boyfriend but none of us were finishing at the same time. The last bus home was 11.15.

I said that was absolutely fine, and changed her hours to finish at 11pm.

She then said to DH that she couldn’t (as in she’d asked me and I’d said no) leave work early and he’d have to pick her up at midnight. The lie fell apart as soon as I got home, obviously, and I told her she’d be leaving at 11pm and getting the bus home. She said ok.

Her boyfriend’s mother drove her home.

She had phoned this woman and told her we’d left her stranded in town with no way of getting home. So she’d driven a half hour round trip to pick the poor stranded child up and take her home.

DD was quite proud to tell us this. ‘X cares about my safety and didn’t want me getting a late bus home’. I cannot get my head round DD phoning this woman, lying to her about the situation. And being quite happy for her to come out late at night to take her home to save herself a fifteen fucking minute bus ride.

I get the impression she has told BFs parents we are basically starving and stranding her. We’ve never met them despite asking.

I don’t have any contact details for them but I do know the house (having dropped DD there countless times despite being an awful parent who never gives lifts). I feel like I need to tell them that we are not the abusive neglectful parents DD is making out!

She is always asking for money for lunch, a big bugbear of mine, when we have a house full of food. I’m pretty sure she makes out to his parents that we starve her. I’m just not giving her a fiver a day for lunch at college. And I often find out they’ve picked her up from college or they drop her home, it’s all walkable and she has an open (expensive!) bus pass.

Should I talk to them? Or do I need to get over this and let her manipulate them into parenting her?

It also doesn’t feel great that DD is happy to lie and manipulate like this but I don’t know how to get through to her.

DDs had £20 pm until 16 when we encouraged them to get a job. Pocket money then stopped. There is no incentive to work if mum and dad are paying for all your needs.

Is it possible she was worried about the walk from the bus stop to the front door? It wouldn't be surprising, even though you are in rural Sussex.
She sounds annoying and frustrating but I think sometimes teenage anger can mask concerns that feel more difficult to say.

@skodadoda

We don’t get CB because she left college, I haven’t bothered reapplying because DH has to pay it back anyway

You should apply for CB as it protects your right to a pension even if DH does have to pay it back.

OP works and presumably pays NI. That's what gives her a right to a state pension.

@mrsm43s, I suggest you look at the Universal Credit rate for an 18-year-old. Then look at the pocket money this young woman gets. Then think about how a young person on universal credit has to pay their bills on that money. You might realize that the OPs daughter is actually well off.

This is not your fault. To a large extent people are as they are. Yes, you can fuck kids up by fairly extreme behaviour, but it sounds like you have two kids who get on with the world pretty well, and one who grew up in the same environment, with the same parents, and who is struggling in many ways.

She may always struggle, or her teenage brain may development and to some, or all, extent she’ll get over it.

As a parent your job is to set boundaries in the meantime, and it also sounds like you are doing a pretty good job there too.

You should certainly not be increasing her “pocket money” while she smokes. Leaving aside the fact that pocket money is for kids, it would be wholly irresponsible to subsidise that. As long as she smokes, I would cut entirely any direct money. You don’t want to be paying for something that you know, for a fact, harms her. Stop that ASAP. You can say it’s fair because pocket money finishes at 18. What she spends her own money, that she earns working (even though you got her the job!) is her own business. You can disapprove, and tell her so, but you can’t stop it.

Bus pass, phone, and a place to live free while in school (and in uni vacations) is wholly normal. Also lifts whenever possible and convenient, but you aren’t wrong to let her take responsibility herself if no one else can help on the odd occasion. It sounds like there is a good bus, near work and home, that she could take very occasionally and or else that she could wait and get a late lift home from a co-worker. Yes, it is not ideal, but as a young woman her life is going to be full of similar small such challenges.

I think others’ advice to drop a note through the door inviting the BF’s parents for drinks or to meet for coffee is good. Yes, she is legally an adult, but in many ways she is also still a kid (that stuff about adolescent brain continuing to develop is not wrong), and it might be helpful to know about the other parents and the BF. There is always the teenage girl parent worry of pregnancy. It might not happen, but keeping channels of communication open - most especially with your child, but it also could be with the boy’s parents, is important.

So tough for you! But please don’t blame yourself. It sounds like you are doing your best, and your best sounds pretty good - even if it doesn’t always look that way.

11:30clpsmum

LemonJuiceFromConcentrate

This sounds really difficult.

DD was quite proud to tell us this. ‘X cares about my safety and didn’t want me getting a late bus home’. I cannot get my head round DD phoning this woman, lying to her about the situation. And being quite happy for her to come out late at night to take her home to save herself a fifteen fucking minute bus ride.

Did you express this to your dd? Like directly say “We are really troubled by the way you tell lies to manipulate people. What would your bf’s mum think if she knew you had lied to make her come and collect you?”

I’m not saying that would work, I’m just curious. I wish I had proper advice for you.

Agree with this too
I also agree with all the above.
Do t be afraid of spelling out the truth to your daughter.
My youngest tried all sorts of similar things when she was in her 20s fgs and never rang, it was always a text. She works in a well paid LA job in Wales but was always short of money but would not tell the real reason, only some fictitious excuse which I always knew wasn't the truth. When confronted with the reality she would say "Well you should help, you're my mum" and if I lent her the money and it wasn't paid back next payday she'd ask whether I wanted either the money, or her in my life. When I said I'd like both she went NC and said she'd found another mother. This is a grown single woman with no children and, at the time, no partner. She did pay the money but only after I leaned heavily.

She is being manipulative of you and at 18she needs to stand on her own 2feet .Maybe now time to work full time and pay rent or decide what she is going to do with the rest of her life

@BanditoShipman

I don’t understand all the posts re not giving her pocket money as she is 18? My dd is 17 and doing a levels, will be 18 when in her second year and she gets a £200 a month allowance. We pay for all her food at home, her phone, all travel to school, but if she wants take out at school (rather than packed lunch) she has to buy it out of her own money.

She has to pay for travel to friends/town but usually one of us would give her a lift if we’re around. There’s no way I’d let her get a bus at night on her own. If I knew one of her friends was getting a bus at that time of night I’d go and pick them up too.

I thought it was normal that dc doing a levels got pocket money/allowance. All my friends dc do.

Dd hasn’t got a job, we’d rather she concentrated on her a levels. If she did get a job we wouldn’t take her allowance off her as surely that would be penalising her getting a job?

My DC don’t get pocket money, because they have a part time job _ in a shop. They are also doing A levels. I do however pay for their travel pass, phone and hobbies, because they are a dependant “child” in full time education. At university it will be different. I think £200 a month pocket money is a huge amount. That’s more money than I have to spend on myself! She definitely gets the bus when travelling around, no matter the time. There are lots of night buses. No one would dream of getting any of their parents to pick them up. Besides which, we don’t have a car.

I was living on my own 400 miles away from my parents at that age. Stop giving her money and stop paying for the bus pass.
I would tell her exactly how you feel in a calm manner and that she has been very hurtful.

Firstly OP you are doing a lot right and should give yourself some credit for that. Most teens are difficult and most come out of it the other end a lot nicer. Some of the behaviour is driven by brain development eg lack of empathy.

I'd have very clear and consistent boundaries with her. Stop her pocket money and don't respond to any other requests for money either.

If she says she can't afford stuff, tell her when she stops smoking and drinking and makes her own lunches she will have more money. You can ask her when you do the shopping if there's anything she wants you to get in for her lunches. She can engage with this or not.

Stop giving her lifts except for the late night ones, and she needs to plan and agree these in advance.

I'd stop worrying about the boyfriends parents and what they think or what they choose to do.

@skodadoda

We don’t get CB because she left college, I haven’t bothered reapplying because DH has to pay it back anyway

You should apply for CB as it protects your right to a pension even if DH does have to pay it back.

Op is working and paying ni

While it's your money and time, it should be on your terms. If she treats you that way she should finance herself.
I would write a brief note to his parents along the lines of
"Thank you so much for picking up our DD the other night. I am sorry she put you to so much trouble. We were unable to pick her up late that day and had specifically changed her work end time so she could catch the last bus. Unfortunately she decided to change this arrangement and bothered you instead. Thank you for your kindness and generosity to her, but I would like you to know that she earns £200 per month from her job and we give her £20 pocket money as well. Contrary to any impression she may wish to give, she is never left to starve!"

Writing to the parents is a step too far.

She’s nominally an adult but she’s still in education.

How is her relationship with her dad? Does he feel the same as you? Might he be able to step in more?

I’m a bit surprised that she managed to move out and you didn’t notice to be honest.

When I was eighteen, long long ago, I had a job. Hard work, low pay (but seemed a lot to me then). My wages were paid weekly, notes and coins, in a small sealed packet, as was the custom back then near the dawn of time. Like that of my father and my stay-at-home siblings, this wage packet was passed to my mother, still sealed, on payday. Then I was rewarded with pocket money for the week. My mother kept the rest the majority for what was then referred to as my 'keep' .

Later in life, post-embourgeoisification, I had children of my own. Conscient of the advantages I had garnered as a child from financially-strict parenting, I kept my children short of ready cash until they were older and settled. (Then I paid off their mortgages for them, but that is another matter.)

Did my children appreciate their upbringing? They tell me they do now ... and confirm their responses in the way they bring up my grandchildren.

So, OP, a suggestion. Explain why to your DD, then ask her to pay her keep. Tell her you love her unconditionally and will continue to do so following any of her lies and other misdeeds, but insist that at her age she needs to pay her way in your household. You owe it to your offspring to bring them up properly; explain that this is for her benefit. (Which is true even if she is too young (and spoilt?) to realise it.)

It is not too late to do this.

[I would not, myself, contact bf's parents. Socially, if invited, sure, be pleasant. But really your dealings with your DD are not their concern.]

You haven't failed as a mum.

She's 18. Lots of 18 year old girls are awful. Hopefully she'll emerge as a lovely human within a few years.

Maybe if you withdraw the financial/logistical supplementaries, she will start to notice all the things you've done for her.

Hang on in there! Take care of yourself.

Of course you haven't failed. Teenagers even 18 year old ones can be a self absorbed PITAs. I think you should approach this by saying how embarrassed you are that she is treating kind people badly and using them rather than concentrating on how she has been shit to you. She doesn't care about that, she thinks she can kick back at you and that's ok. On the plus side that means she feels secure in her relationship with you on the minus she's being a disrespectful pain.

Every sympathy for you OP.

She sounds exactly like my younger sister, she played me like a fiddle for years until a long period of NC. After I had my DC she reappeared wanting to be "involved" in their lives but unfortunately at 30 I've realised she is still the exact same as she was at 18 and will never change.

I really hope your DD grows out of this.

Tough one, OP.
No advice as such, apart to leave BF's parents out of it, and to give yourself space. Big hugs..

Can you connect with the bf’s mum on social media and tell her exactly what’s going on?
I’ve felt like I’ve been compared to various Bf’s family and homes a few times and it’s horrible. One
Of my dd’s boyfriends had an amazing house very with well off, super cool parents and I kept hearing about how great his mum was and family were etc.🙄
That bf and his family are an irrelevance now though as they broke up anyway. If I makes you feel any better though there’s a pretty high chance she’ll be going out with another boy in a little while anyway lol
Try not to let it get to you hon. She’ll grow out
This stage before long. X

So, something has shifted. Whether it was our epic row on Sunday morning, whether the mum has realised she was being taken for a mug? Maybe she’s on here and has put some boundaries up? Who knows. But DD has been home every day, and the last two days she has spent with me at work (not working; she’s come in to see me after college and hung around doing college work/chatting).

She’s still a chancer, and I did buy the jeans (but only when she asked properly and nicely, and they are for work and not something she would wear otherwise). She complimented the dinner I made yesterday and has been talking to me a lot more about what’s going on in her life, we’ve had some of the nicest, closest conversations in the last few days than we’ve had for months.

I have been clear with her that if she wants to be treated like an adult she needs to act like one (and that is my mother right there in my ear, verbatim, god help me). I gave her a £20 limit for the jeans and she gave me the £4 excess back in cash. She will be staying in to watch her brother while DH does his hobby, no charge I just said she needed to be in and she said sure.

Also she’s apparently on track for a distinction at college, and she let me peek at her portfolio and she might be right.

I feel a bit sad about how I’ve portrayed her, I was angry and upset. I think the point in Sunday’s argument where I called her a psychopath and she called me an abuser might have been a tipping point for us both.

I’m so grateful for all the helpful and sometimes hard to read contents here. I think we’re both reframing and rethinking. I’ve described the boundaries to her and I think she gets the point that although BF mum did pick her up and say ‘oh no problem, any time’ that’s just what people say and it WAS an imposition.

@JanetPluchinsky

Sounds like a good start Janet... Happy for you both

Congratulations, it sounds like she might be back on track.

A big thanks as well to the BF's Mum if she is here and gave matters a helping hand too!

That’s fab news. Well done both of you.

I often found with mine they could be foul in the moment but would go away and process things on their own time.

Months of truly appalling behaviour towards you and now that his parents have said something, she now decides to be a bit more amenable because her options have narrowed?

Kindly meant OP, she is the same nasty little madam that behaved the way she did at Christmas, but has decided to dial it down a bit now that his parents have seen through her.

I'm glad the penny has dropped as I would be appalled if one of my sons brought home a young woman who happily lies and abuses her parents like she has done.

You sound like a very nice woman who is working very hard for her family, one of whom is a spoiled, selfish brat.

I have 4 children and have teens and I know they can be self absorbed, but her behaviour has been quite dreadful.

All I am trying to say to you is that her nasty, selfish behaviour has gone nowhere in 24 hours.
She is simply regrouping and needs to use her awful "abusive parents who starve and neglect her, who never give her lifts or money"🙄 for a bit longer.

Expect her deeply unpleasant behaviour to return the minute her situation improves and she doesn't need you so much.

Selfishness and self absorbtion is part of the teen years for lots of teens to varing degrees.

What you have described around Christmas was of a very different level of nastiness.
Off the scale deliberately nasty, IMO.

So I would suggest instead of rushing to take her in with a forgive and forget mentality, you remind her of how she behaved and let her know that you haven't forgotten her behaviour.

You let her know that she lives by the rules of respect and kindness in the family as you will not tolerate it.

She has somehow grown up to believe she can behave in a truly hurtful and nasty way towards those around her without any consequences.

This will come back to haunt you again and again unless you stand up to her, in YOUR home.

She has exhibited behaviour that will mar your family life long term and her future relationships.

Again, I refer to her behaviour at Christmas.
That was IMO off the scale nastiness and wanting to hurt her whole family and spoil the holiday for everyone.

You ignore the truth of that at your peril.
Re read your posts which struck me as very truthful.

Wishing you the very best.

I feel a bit sad about how I’ve portrayed her

Was everything you said true? If so, then of course you feel sad but you shouldn't feel bad to have told the truth on an anonymous forum.

As was said on this thread, it is clear that you love her even when you have times when you don't like her very much. She is your daughter and you love her.

None of us know her but I suppose those of us with similar family members (or who've been your daughter at one stage in our lives) would not get our hopes too high about an overnight shift in attitude and behaviour.

Hopefully things keep moving in the right direction, and this is a case of two steps forward one step back and not the other way round.

Good luck to your daughter and to all of your family.