To send my eldest to grammar school knowing it’ll be a squeeze?

[Troisfoisfilles]

So my eldest just won a place at a really good grammar school in our area to start year 7 in September which is great.
She did so well in the entrance exam and interview that she was offered a scholarship and we have been awarded a brilliant bursary. Only trouble is, the bursary doesn’t cover everything and even the transport and uniform are a huge expense! It’s going to be a massive squeeze on finances. I also have two younger children who will no doubt miss out on little treats and things that I won’t be able to afford any longer 😞.
She is very intelligent and would do well at any school but I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school.
I originally applied for a place for her at the school I teach at. It’s a great school and she would do ok there but I don’t want just ok for her. For a start, she’s really quite eccentric and mature for her age. Kids similar to this at my school don’t really go down that well and are singled out by the others - kids are horrid!
I really believe she needs the small classes, discipline and pushiness she’d get at a grammar.
So am I being unreasonable in sending her?

@Everydaydayisaschoolday

I see this line about spoon feeding at private schools quite regularly and I have to say it is completely contrary to my experience (though it sounds like your son has done extremely well).

Good selective independent schools don't spoon-feed for exams. Because they are independent and have small class sizes, they have the option to teach way outside of the exam syllabus and to let children explore their own interests to a greater extent. At the prep school I am sending my son to they spend 30 mins a day from age 6 on their own interest - so if they like art a small group of them do an extended project of their choice with the art teacher or some of them each build a robot controlled by a computer etc. They have autonomy over what they choose to do and can change over time - the idea is to let them develop their interests in a semi-autonomous way from very early.

At my independent school for coursework we generally had the option to choose and plan our own project. So for English we chose our own texts, even if no one else in the class was studying them and for geography we planned and carried out our own field study rather than doing this as a group. My friends doing the same course at state school were given one text for the class and "taught" it or required all to go on the same trip and then use the same results. There were lots of personal projects throughout my time at school e.g. you had to do a debating competition on a topic of your choice.

If you wanted to study a subject which the school didn't offer at sixth form level they would try to offer it or find another school which offered it.

If a student wanted to enter a maths competition or set up a chess club etc. they would have support to do that but be encouraged to do a lot of the work in setting it up themselves.

I felt that at my school passing exams with As was the bare minimum and education was about much more than that.

There may well be private schools which are purely exam factories but I think it's an unfair generalisation and I personally wouldn't pay for a school like that.

If you had a bright child at a state school and they essentially have to teach themself with no support if they want to progress beyond what the school is teaching, I can see that that might really develop independent thinking but not many students are going to do that.

@couldhave
Yes I have applied to mark exams in the summer. Been accepted but they apparently chose those that have done it before first before new applicants so not sure yet.

All things being equal I'd go for it. You have to pay for extras at state school anyway too. Perhaps the uniform might be cheaper at a state school but then you'd be possibly be paying more for out of school 'top ups' that would come as part of a private school like sports or drama clubs, tutors, or just the 'voluntary contributions' that state schools invite parents to give all the time.

This is an amazing opportunity and you should do everything in your power to make it happen. It will make a big difference to her life chances. Cut back on everything you can afford to and make extra on the side if you can. And start preparing girl number 2. If the oldest shines, they will know what to expect from no. 2:-) I have a friend with all three children on bursaries at the same school -- schools judge on ability, not on whether they gave you a bursary already.

And learn about the different types of secondary schools on offer. Grammars are state schools. You shouldn't refer to this as a grammar, even if it has the word "grammar" in its name:-)

Also, can I please just say that I am INCREDIBLY proud of her. Someone asked me a while ago but I can’t find that post now.
I’m honestly on top of the world that she managed to do so well in the exam without any extra tuition or practise. I knew she was intelligent but I was quite surprised just how intelligent she is!

Here is my experience.

DD1 wanted to go to a Haberdashers School, mainly because some of her mates were going there. She sat the exam and missed the scholarship by a couple of marks - what to do? We paid for her to go there, and it was the biggest mistake we ever made. We had thought we were doing the best thing for her.

It was a mistake, not just for financial reasons, but socially. Single sex, load of snooty kids who were in the National Youth Choir and orchestra, played endless instruments and generally made our very bright DD seem (and made her feel) like an also-ran. She was up to par academically, but did not have the peripheral advantages. She went to the local 6th form college after GCSEs and did brilliantly there.

We learned our lesson and sent the other siblings to state schools, where they did very well indeed, and had better pastoral care and were imbued with more confidence. And did better academically on the long run.

It is not just about intellect.

On another note, I was the second sibling whose older brother was sent to a prep school while I went to the local school .... hmmm. But he was the one who finished up dropping out of university, and I was the one who went on to do post-grad.

@Troisfoisfilles

So by missing out, I mean that they ALL might only get £50 each spent on them for Xmas instead of £100, or that instead of going to legoland or Alton towers for the day, we might just go to the local beach, or that we might only go on holiday for a week instead of 2. It’s not day-day stuff I’m worried about. It’s about the big treats. And the other two will 100% be given the same opportunities as DD1. For instance, when it comes to it, DD2 will be allowed to take the entrance exam for the school too. And if DD3 improves academically, she will also. Or if she wants to continue her favourite activity to a higher level, I’ll put the extra costs involved into that too. In regards to ‘me putting her forward for the exam knowing I wouldn’t be able to afford it’ that’s unfair. She was desperate to try out for it. I sat down with her and gave her all the details about whether I thought I could afford it, how she’d need to have a scholarship and bursary for it to even be a possibility, about how she’d be ‘the poor kid’, about how I might not be to afford all the school trips etc etc. She is very mature for her age and thought about it very carefully beforehand. She really wanted to give it a go.

Holy horsehair! is this a film or a book?

I don't think we have to give all of our children the same thing, we should give them what they need. This school might be right for DD1 but completely wrong for DD2 and DD3 so I'd be focusing on what DD1 needs now.

Can you make any money tutoring? You could do it at home so no childcare if your children are sensible enough to amuse themselves for an hour. Or go to MSE and get the experts to go through your budget to see if there is anything that can be saved, I was amazed how much I managed to save when I started going there about 5 years ago.

I hope you can work it out, it sounds right for her.

Ignore all the you have to treat them the same - please let her go she will have a fantastic time. i have 3 children - 1 and 3 are very clever and work hard - 2 is very clever but not the same personality so didn't work hard. He won a sports scholarship at the private school in our village and he went - the other two went to the local comprehensive. For sixth form, first son asked if he could do a levels at private school so he went for an academic/sport scholarship and got it so he went. Daughter stayed at comprehensive. Eventually she asked if she could also go to private school and she went because that was the fair thing to do but at no point did either 1 or 3 complain about their brother going there first - they were happy at the comprehensive and them made their choice when they were ready to go to private school, massive cost which we had to remortgage but worth every penny as it was a fabulous school and they got so much out of it. But if they hadnt chosen to go I wouldnt have felt it wasn't fair - all children are different and as someone said as long as you are fair which we were why should your daughter not be able to go when you have no idea whether the other two would want to anyway Go for it!

@bellac11

Why dont you send her to your school and buy in tutoring for pushing her to her potential as well,, then you can spend the money on her education but in a more creative way, leaving you space to do that for your other children too

That wouldn’t come close to compensating for the social aspect or replicating a grammar education.

@CowboyJo

If you can't pay for it, don't send her there. Private schools are a load of snobby poppycock as far as I'm concerned. She'll still reach her potential at a state school.

totally unhelpful comment

I would send her OP. The benefits outweigh the negatives. I went to private school and there were TONS of kids whose siblings went to state schools for many different reasons. It’s not uncommon.

@Mischance the thing is, for one experience like yours, you’ll find someone who have had a great experience in a private school and have thrive there.

Not all private schools are the same
Not all state schools are the same
And perhaps even more importantly, not all environments are the same. Taking a decision like this isn’t the same when you are living in a deprived area vs a wealthy area.

My dcs started in a state school and moved onto private and that was the best decision for them ever.
Same school and I’ve met people who have moved away because it was too competitive etc… but found another great private school that worked for them.
Basically, you also need a good match between the school and the student….

@Everydaydayisaschoolday

She is very intelligent and would do well at any school

So send her to a state school. If she will do well anywhere don't compromise the family finances sending her to a fee paying school. And don't send her somewhere where she can't afford the same lifestyle as her class mates. That will isolate her a lot more than being clever in a state school. There will be other clever and eccentric kids there too!

My D.C. went to state schools. One was very bright and did very well. The other is quite bright and did quite well - both of which are as they should be.

The bright one is now in a city job that takes in 200 graduate trainees a year most of whom come from the independent sector. He did exceptionally well in his professional exams and has now been promoted several times and is way ahead of his Elton and Harrow type colleagues. I think it's because going to a state school he wasn't spoon fed but had to learn to be proactive and use his initiative. His public school colleagues aren't used to having to think for themselves in the same way.

It does depend on the local schools, there are some I'd be happy for children to go to and some that I'd do anything to avoid. The OP doesn't feel the local school is a good fit but I agree that if the local state school is good then it is ideal, if it is poor then it is less than ideal.

Of course she must go. She has won the place and also a scholarship fund, she deserves to go, how on earth will she feel if you decide no? Go for it, it sounds just the thing....

You're doing well as a single parent of three children on a teacher's salary. You say you don't even have support from an ex. If you get get all three into that school, and you don't compromise too much on their holidays, gifts and treats etc, there's no issue is there?

Hi OP,
All I wanted to ask is whether the funding would be expected to continue throughout your daughters time at the school.

(I have read your posts so sorry if I have missed this)
If the funding is year by year and could be pulled at any time I wouldn't put your daughter in a position where she might have to move schools due to the funding being pulled.

[quote Troisfoisfilles]@NeverDropYourMooncup
I don’t think of myself as poor but I am certainly not well off! I save all year for those holidays and days out and Christmas presents for my kids. I do this by cutting back on things for myself. My clothes and car and phone are all old ones. I certainly don’t have much in the way of disposable income.
And I used to be very poor. I grew up on a council estate and went to the same school I work at now (which was well known as the worst school in the whole region at the time). I definitely did not achieve my full potential. I was intelligent but never pushed and never encouraged. Was teased for being a ‘try-hard’ so I gave up. My school isn’t as bad as this anymore but this culture definitely still exists. I don’t want this for DD1. She’s so shy and knows she already stands out so she’d hate for this to happen.[/quote]
Honestly, it sounds like you're on the edge already. Do you have savings? A pension? Can you easily soak up mortgage/rent increase? Fuel costs?

It sounds like years of uncertainty.
I'd be happier putting any extra £ aside to help the kids down the line

Have a word with the new school, might be a grant towards uniform. The extras do add up though, you might have to warn your daughter not to sign up for anything before she’s run it past you.
The transport can be horrendously expensive. Are there any parents you could car share with?

@Winter2020

Hi OP, All I wanted to ask is whether the funding would be expected to continue throughout your daughters time at the school.

(I have read your posts so sorry if I have missed this)
If the funding is year by year and could be pulled at any time I wouldn't put your daughter in a position where she might have to move schools due to the funding being pulled.

It is for the full 7 years. They do a review each year just to make sure but as long as nothing changes dramatically, the funding will remain

I think that the hardships you've described aren't that big a deal. If you were saying you'd struggle to pay the mortgage, energy bills etc then that would be clearer.

I don't quite get how it would mean that you'd only have £50 instead of £100 each for presents for the kids - do you mean that it would effect the things you currently save for so you wouldn't be able to put as much away on a monthly basis? How much extra do you think this is going to cost you?

On the info you've given, I would say grab this opportunity for your daughter. Your three children will be very different and will need different types of support so it would be a shame to send your daughter to the 'wrong' school for her. If things get too tight, you would just have to move her and she'd have had the benefit of the start in a private school. Not ideal but not the end of the world either.

Uniform - we sourced a lot of uniform for our children second hand. The school FB page is a great starting point.

Extra costs for travel - well this depends on how much extra you will need to stump up. Does your DD qualify for free school transport?

Could you do a few extra hours to cover the extra expense.

Well this could have been me. I was awarded almost full scholarship for Y7 private school, with the alternative school both my parents taught at. They decided not to send me to the private school mostly because they were worried about paying my DB fees later.

I resented my DP, absolutely hated having them teaching at the same school, was picked on by other pupils and some staff who did not like my DF in particular. I stopped trying to do well and spent as little time at home or school as I could.

I applied again for Y9 entry and got a partial scholarship, smaller than before but everyone had realised it was for the best and off I went. Best thing that ever happened to me. My DB was perfectly happy at the local state school - had none of the same issues and we're now in our 40s with no issue at all about the different schools we ended up at.

Your DD sounds very bright and I would give her every chance to take the opportunity she has made for herself.

@busyeatingbiscuits

Honestly I don't think it's a good idea to make your child the poor kid at a private school - as you say, kids are horrid! If the uniform and transport are a stretch, how will you fund the school skiing trips and educational visits to New York? How will she keep up with her friends in terms of hobbies, clothes, phones, laptops? That's going to be a huge pressure.

My experience is that this isn't as big an issue as people might imagine. I live in a place with outstanding state schools, and there's just as much 'keeping up with the friends' going on there. More so, in a way, as so many of the parents are double-earning m/c professionals who are not paying school fees, so can afford fancy holidays, cars for their 17 yr olds, phones, laptops etc...

OP, I don't envy you your decision, and can see both sides of it. On balance, I'd do it.

An aside. My 3 have gone to private secondary (not UK). It has been brutal from a financial standpoint.

I would do it again and FIVE times over.

Absolutely send her. She has passed the exam without being tutored, which immediately means she must be very bright. The majority of children who pass the independent school exams are heavily tutored for at least a year and often more, despite the fact that they might not admit it.
It simply isn't true to say that a bright child will do well anywhere. The level of education is more robust in the private system. It has to be. Parents are paying for it. Generally the teachers are highly qualified and enthusiastic about their subjects, and pastoral care is excellent.