To send my eldest to grammar school knowing it’ll be a squeeze?

[Troisfoisfilles]

So my eldest just won a place at a really good grammar school in our area to start year 7 in September which is great.
She did so well in the entrance exam and interview that she was offered a scholarship and we have been awarded a brilliant bursary. Only trouble is, the bursary doesn’t cover everything and even the transport and uniform are a huge expense! It’s going to be a massive squeeze on finances. I also have two younger children who will no doubt miss out on little treats and things that I won’t be able to afford any longer 😞.
She is very intelligent and would do well at any school but I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school.
I originally applied for a place for her at the school I teach at. It’s a great school and she would do ok there but I don’t want just ok for her. For a start, she’s really quite eccentric and mature for her age. Kids similar to this at my school don’t really go down that well and are singled out by the others - kids are horrid!
I really believe she needs the small classes, discipline and pushiness she’d get at a grammar.
So am I being unreasonable in sending her?

Really the horse has already bolted, she applied and got in. If you don’t let her go now, you are really denying her something. It doesn’t sound like what the other kids will lose out on is that much either.

It would be a shame to lose out on such an opportunity.

You need to check with the school whether the bursary is linked to fees and where there is any financial help for school trips. Pecked lunch would help with costs as would second hand uniform. Your younger children are at the start of primary and some children go to state sixth forms. Do you have a good one nearby so that financial help would be transferred to her younger siblings when she reaches 16? Does the school have a broad curriculum? 60 entry is very small for a secondary.

Sorry, you have done some of that already.
I know families that did this. They manage by always earning extra money, even if SAHM they would be selling something/several things on the side, renting things out, walking dogs, everything they bought was second-hand etc etc. It can be harder to cut back than to earn more...

She is very intelligent and would do well at any school

So send her to a state school. If she will do well anywhere don't compromise the family finances sending her to a fee paying school. And don't send her somewhere where she can't afford the same lifestyle as her class mates. That will isolate her a lot more than being clever in a state school. There will be other clever and eccentric kids there too!

My D.C. went to state schools. One was very bright and did very well. The other is quite bright and did quite well - both of which are as they should be.

The bright one is now in a city job that takes in 200 graduate trainees a year most of whom come from the independent sector. He did exceptionally well in his professional exams and has now been promoted several times and is way ahead of his Elton and Harrow type colleagues. I think it's because going to a state school he wasn't spoon fed but had to learn to be proactive and use his initiative. His public school colleagues aren't used to having to think for themselves in the same way.

I voted YABU because you can't afford this. Someone put the possibility of this school in your DD's head. You should have stopped this at that point.

My DCs went to the local underperforming, in and out of special measures, comp. All three are fairly eccentric but each found their niche. The advantage of a larger school is that students are far more likely to find other eccentrics to be friends with.

What a tricky situation. I fully agree you can’t disadvantage the siblings for the sake of the eldest’s education. However, it would be awful for your daughter to miss out on an opportunity she has earned and a brilliant education just in case it’s a problem that her siblings can’t be bought the same opportunity that by and large you don’t have to pay for for her.

I think that allowing the siblings to sit the entrance exam and being prepared to pay the same extras would ensure equality. If the others don’t have the same bursary offered then you’ve given them equal chances, it’s not for the eldest to suffer or miss out because all the kids have different talents.

I agree you’ve got to have the same money for extras for all, it just might be different extras - so if the eldests costs mean you can’t get music or dance lessons for a younger sibling for example the that’s unfair and a strong line in my opinion.

What happens if the eldest doesn’t achieve highly enough throughout school to maintain the bursary - its a lot of pressure for her to know that if her grades aren’t high enough she would have to leave because you can’t switch to paying the fees.

Ultimately as a parent I would move heaven and earth to enable her to take up this opportunity but it simply cannot be at the expense of equal opportunities for her siblings in whatever areas they may excel.

Finally you mention hoping to be in a better financial situation in future - great if that happens but don’t make any plans on that assumption as it sounds like nothing more concrete than hope at the moment and if the future comes and things aren’t different financially you still have to be able to treat the children fairly.

She’s not going to school to make friends @GnomeDePlume. Not allowing her to go is denying someone academically very bright the best possible chance to fulfill their potential.

@LampLighter414

I think if you can scrape by for now that's fine.

But longer term if your other DC may follow suit then what are the career prospects and earning potential for both yourself and your DP (if you have one living with you - sorry I couldn't spot it from a quick flick through your posts). You can't bank on the other DC being awarded such big scholarships/bursary so might have to pay significant fees in the future

If the other kids don't win such a bit bursary/scholarship, then the OP can't afford to send them, and they won't be able to go.

The point is, the OP's DD1 has "earnt", all by herself, a massive scholarship and bursary. She has clearly set her heart on the school, and has done everything possible to get herself there. T

To me, OP, you have to let hr follow her dream if it is in any way possible. She has done so much for it. You might want to say to your DD1 that some of the extras at school might need to be Xmas and birthday presents, , but don't take this away from her. I think she will never forgive you, and never stop resenting DC2 &3, who she will recognise are the reason that she could not get the education she wants. To her, it will be like you saying to her - drop out of school and go out and work so that we can provide for DC2 and 3. I think you are setting it up for bitter relations between siblings down the track, and bitter relations between you and her as he hits teenage years. She will not want to go to the school you teach at (probably anyway, there is nothing worse for a teenager than having their mum at the same school, it is just dire - even having a parent at your university is dire, I can tell you, you can't be yourself). I really would grab this opportunity for her with both hands, and do what you can. Some time down the track you will find a way of giving your other DC their dreams in other ways.

The bright one is now in a city job that takes in 200 graduate trainees a year most of whom come from the independent sector. He did exceptionally well in his professional exams and has now been promoted several times and is way ahead of his Elton and Harrow type colleagues. I think it's because going to a state school he wasn't spoon fed but had to learn to be proactive and use his initiative. His public school colleagues aren't used to having to think for themselves in the same way.

That’s an insane generalisation to make about a large group of individual people! And about colleagues of your son’s who I assume you’ve never met never mind worked with. Great that your son is doing so well but I can’t fathom how you can possibly conclude what you have said here - is it based on anything other than an idea in your head that you’d like to think?

I think you should let her go, whilst trying to get a job in the school so you get a fee discount for your other children if they want to go later on.

@Troisfoisfilles

So by missing out, I mean that they ALL might only get £50 each spent on them for Xmas instead of £100, or that instead of going to legoland or Alton towers for the day, we might just go to the local beach, or that we might only go on holiday for a week instead of 2. It’s not day-day stuff I’m worried about. It’s about the big treats. And the other two will 100% be given the same opportunities as DD1. For instance, when it comes to it, DD2 will be allowed to take the entrance exam for the school too. And if DD3 improves academically, she will also. Or if she wants to continue her favourite activity to a higher level, I’ll put the extra costs involved into that too. In regards to ‘me putting her forward for the exam knowing I wouldn’t be able to afford it’ that’s unfair. She was desperate to try out for it. I sat down with her and gave her all the details about whether I thought I could afford it, how she’d need to have a scholarship and bursary for it to even be a possibility, about how she’d be ‘the poor kid’, about how I might not be to afford all the school trips etc etc. She is very mature for her age and thought about it very carefully beforehand. She really wanted to give it a go.

She won't be the 'poor kid'. Not with a parent in a secure profession and the money for holidays.

The 'poor kid' is the one from a disabled single parent unable to work. The one who hasn't even applied because the cost of the application/registration fees/getting the income declaration officially notarised is too much.

Stop thinking of yourself as poor. You have advantages over a hell of a lot of the families your DC is fortunate enough to have a chance of escaping. And give her the opportunity you are very well able to manage with just a few adjustments - where your downgraded experiences are still well above what hundreds of kids wouldn't have.

(by the way, I wasn't allowed to go to the private school even with a 100% bursary and maintenance grant. I was told it was because I'd be the poor kid. So I got to be the poor kid in the shit school instead - and when you're getting a pasting because you're the freaky brainiac, it really doesn't matter what your IQ is).

I would let her go. I’ve never believed the tosh that bright children do well anywhere. I was a bright child who didn’t get a chance to sit the 11+, went to the local comp and was utterly miserable. Ds was also bright, didn’t really have much choice of school here in Scotland, ended up home educating him instead for part of secondary, as the comp didn’t work for him either. So in your shoes - and given how much she wants it - I’d make the sacrifices.

Unfortunately it’s just me. DDs’ father has no contact and has never supported. Not sure even where he is tbh.
My career means that my wages should go up steadily throughout the years. I’m also hoping for a promotion which will mean higher wages also.
I’ve even thought about trying to get an evening job but I’m so limited with childcare.

Why dont you send her to your school and buy in tutoring for pushing her to her potential as well,, then you can spend the money on her education but in a more creative way, leaving you space to do that for your other children too

@saddowizca

I think you should let her go, whilst trying to get a job in the school so you get a fee discount for your other children if they want to go later on.

I have been looking at positions at the school. Would be great to work there.

"Fairness" comes in many forms - it's not just about money - and OP's kids may not all be as academically gifted as DD1, but turn out to be fantastic musicians, brilliant at or amazingly creative or artistic. Surely fairness is about doing whatever is necessary to allow them all to gain their full potential in whatever it is they are gifted at, not necessarily spending the exact same amount of money on each of them.

While DD1 goes to the independent school, maybe DD2 gets bought a violin/pony/expensive camera and DD3 is enrolled in a football academy .... it's all relative.

I would say that she must at least be allowed a chance to go to the school now she's proved herself able to be there. Not to do so would be a real let down, and if you don't send her you will forever wonder whether her life might have been different had you done so.

@Clymene

Unless you can absolutely guarantee that the school will also give you the same level of financial subsidy for your other two kids, don't do it.

You're already talking about making sacrifices just for the uniform. And that's not something you buy once - children grow an enormous amount in their teenage years.

What if your other girls pass the exam and you have to say that although you've paid for Alice to go, you called afford to send Belinda or Claire so tough

I completely disagree with this. Child a got the additional funding because she is exceptional at this particular skill e.g. academics. OP already knows she wouldn't be able to send child a or any of the others without the scholarship and bursary. Therefore if the younger children want to go to the private school when they are older, if they have the same ability they might get the same scholarships and be able to go - but it would be ridiculous and unfair for child a to be refused her place now on the off chance her siblings MIGHT want to go to the same school and MIGHT not get the same funding because they MIGHT not have the same ability.

If child a was being offered a place at a football academy would it be fair to say "no you cant go because your siblings aren't as good as football as you, so it's not fair, either you all go to football academy or none of you."

What if child a was a musical prodigy and offered free lessons - do you think OP should refuse them because her much younger siblings might also want to play instruments in the future and she might not be able to afford them?

Agree that fair doesn’t have to mean the same, but here we’re talking £100k+ being spent on one of three DC.

Hard to balance that up!

'maybe DD2 gets bought a pony'

Costs next to nothing to keep a pony.

We did this in similar circumstances to you many years ago.

It was in the eighties when parents were not welcome in primary schools. The two secondary state schools in our area were poor and we had had a bad experience there with her older sister. We finally decided to put her in for the independent (very selective) high school exam after a parents evening when I was told that DD had finished the junior school syllabus. When I asked what she was doing now I was told she was coaching the slower children. I mentioned the high school exam and was told that no children from her school ever went there.
Anyway, she got it. It was tough for her at the beginning as she was behind the other children because she had not been at their junior school or one of the other feeder schools.
It was tough economically (we didn't have a bursary) but it was worth it and there was no resentment from our other daughter.
In retrospect, it was one of the best things we did as parents. I just wish we had realised earlier and applied for our other daughter as well.

@NeverDropYourMooncup
I don’t think of myself as poor but I am certainly not well off! I save all year for those holidays and days out and Christmas presents for my kids. I do this by cutting back on things for myself. My clothes and car and phone are all old ones. I certainly don’t have much in the way of disposable income.
And I used to be very poor. I grew up on a council estate and went to the same school I work at now (which was well known as the worst school in the whole region at the time). I definitely did not achieve my full potential. I was intelligent but never pushed and never encouraged. Was teased for being a ‘try-hard’ so I gave up. My school isn’t as bad as this anymore but this culture definitely still exists. I don’t want this for DD1. She’s so shy and knows she already stands out so she’d hate for this to happen.

@Troisfoisfilles

Unfortunately it’s just me. DDs’ father has no contact and has never supported. Not sure even where he is tbh. My career means that my wages should go up steadily throughout the years. I’m also hoping for a promotion which will mean higher wages also. I’ve even thought about trying to get an evening job but I’m so limited with childcare.

are you a teacher? Can you take on exam marking in the holidays or offer online tutoring in the evenings? As you have said, working in the same private school would help with the fees for the other DC and presumably resolve some/all of the travel costs.

Go for it!
Worry about the other two when it’s their turn. You sound motivated and sensible - you’ll make it work.
How would it be if you denied DD this chance and then the younger DC ended up going there????

There's loads of fee-paying grammars where I'm from, is that unusual elsewhere?

GO FOR IT OP!!!! It's such a great opportunity! Cross all the other bridges when they come! Congratulations to your daughter 💐