To send my eldest to grammar school knowing it’ll be a squeeze?

[Troisfoisfilles]

So my eldest just won a place at a really good grammar school in our area to start year 7 in September which is great.
She did so well in the entrance exam and interview that she was offered a scholarship and we have been awarded a brilliant bursary. Only trouble is, the bursary doesn’t cover everything and even the transport and uniform are a huge expense! It’s going to be a massive squeeze on finances. I also have two younger children who will no doubt miss out on little treats and things that I won’t be able to afford any longer 😞.
She is very intelligent and would do well at any school but I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school.
I originally applied for a place for her at the school I teach at. It’s a great school and she would do ok there but I don’t want just ok for her. For a start, she’s really quite eccentric and mature for her age. Kids similar to this at my school don’t really go down that well and are singled out by the others - kids are horrid!
I really believe she needs the small classes, discipline and pushiness she’d get at a grammar.
So am I being unreasonable in sending her?

I would send her. There will be second hand uniform sales . When my DS went to private school money was tight and we found that many agents were in the same boat. But it was worth every penny. Go for it.

I think you have to let her go. It's chances like this that can set someone's entire future (not always, but often). She's taken the first step by insisting she sit the exam; to not let her go now she's aced it would be desperately unfair, IMO.

Just a thought but you’ve said your DD2 is academic and is year 3? so that’s just 4 years till secondary school? And your eldest daughter will be at private for 7 years? Are you going to be able to afford 2 at private school in 4 years time potentially and not disadvantage the youngest?

Also are you going to be able to help with uni fees when the time comes for your eldest as well as sending the middle child and potentially the youngest to private? Just a thought, may be reading wrong Ofcourse.

I thought the whole point of grammar schools is that they’re free?

It's pretty simple: no because you can't afford it.

All the handwringing in the world won't change that.your child still gets to go to "great" school.

And frankly, you are deluding yourself that this grammar not grammar school will be the answer to her dreams. There are many unwritten extras that accompany private school fees, the expectation to engage in costly out of school activities, join ski trips, city breaks and so on.

If I could advise parents of one thing wrt their children's education it would be to send them to school in the company of children from a similar economic background, kids who have the same expectations around Christmas, clothes and holidays. Else you're setting them up to be a social pariah.

I wouldn't, but then I've been the poor kid at a private school and it was shit. I wouldn't put my kid through that. If you can't comfortably afford it, then you can't afford it. People won't intentionally be cruel about finances, but the expectations will be different. The things I remember looking back were that the curriculum assumed all children could play the piano in music and everyone had had tennis lessons since they were toddling. No-one was around in the long school holidays, alot went off to second homes. There was just an expectation that money was no issue and any problem could be solved because their parents would pay for it. My sibling who didn't go private is still resentful of it decades later despite the fact that he wasn't academic, wasn't interested in the school and wouldn't have passed the entrance exam.

Hi OP,
I think the sacrifices are worth making. I think your children will still have a good quality of life. Well done to your dd. If you can talk to the school about additional funds you may be able to apply for that would also help. Mention to them specifically the uniform and transport and they may well be willing to help you. Goid luck. X

@Chimchiminie

I thought the whole point of grammar schools is that they’re free?

This is an independent grammar school. I'm sure if there was a free grammar where the op lives, her daughter would have applied and been accepted there.

Miriam101 Fri 04-Mar-22 16:43:24
I think you have to let her go. It's chances like this that can set someone's entire future (not always, but often). She's taken the first step by insisting she sit the exam; to not let her go now she's aced it would be desperately unfair, IMO..................

I agree with Miriam. Please remember, op, that you will not be the only parent at the school who struggles a bit, there will be a few who struggle more too.

What is important is how keen your daughter is to go there and, when she is there, if she settles and likes it. If she doesn't, take her away and find somewhere else. I hope she does though.

Don't let her know about any difficulties with the fees, etc, or she will feel bad about it. I've known people go on and on about the 'sacrifices' they make for their children and that is just not on. At the end of the day, it is the parents' choice and kids do not need a burden of sacrifice on their shoulders. I'm sure you wouldn't be like that by the way but it does happen.

I wish her, you and the whole family every success.

@thevassal - you clearly didn't read my post properly. The point I was making was that if the super academic DD2 also passes the exams but is unable to go because the school only offers scholarships and bursaries to one child in a family, that would be awful.

The OP has now confirmed that the bursary/scholarship her DD1 has received could potentially be also available to her other children. So that's much better.

You can't tell a child that the same opportunities aren't available to them because you've made all your investment in their big sister.

I would send her. Please don’t worry about the ‘extras’. In my experience, not all the children go on these additional trips and kids are very understanding / oblivious / disinterested in financial status - it’s adults who care more about that in my experience. She’s shown tremendous initiative and drive. This is a wonderful opportunity. It’s the day to day that matters most, not the occasional extra that she may, along with many others, not be able to do.

YANBU education should always be the priority over “treats”
I say go for it.

I went to private school for the last 3 years of my education.

When I started it was just after autumn half term - I got a second hand blazer (new one a year later) but they'd had some parents not picking up new clothes so I got those (still in packets).

The blazer was fine though, had a tiny grass stain on it which came out during dry cleaning.

Definitely see if you can get a job there - friend did at his sons' private prep school. Also, marking exam papers, tutoring after school and e.g. if you have a special talent like art/drama you can teach and you could do it (mum took me and DB along) then do this - drama classes in this case. She was also a children's party entertainer doing puppet shows.

For me it helped a lot going to a decent private secondary school even though it wasn't the best in the area.

Let her go. She's got where she is on merit. Her siblings have the choice of talking the exam in due course. It won't necessarily affect her relationship with them if they're at different schools. There's no guarantee that siblings will get on/share friends groups or interests anyway. Many independent schools pay extras (trips, lunches, sports kit) for bursary pupils so you might not need to cut back the way that you think. They are also very discreet about it. Speak to the school bursar and see if he/she can reassure you on this. They may also know of other funds or charities that can assist. My DN was in a similar position and a few sessions with Google uncovered all sorts of grants and she was able to access some of them. Use the school uniform sales but beware, the poshest parents have the sharpest elbows! There's absolutely no stigma attached to buying second-hand uniforms at the School sale. The only items they don't stock are underwear and shoes.

Also I knew 3 scholarship pupils at a local private exclusive private secondary school - as far as I know they were all fine, took any teasing if it came their way with a pinch of salt and as long as they worked hard and were good pupils there was no issue whatsoever!

One of the boys dated and married one of the girls in his school and her parents scrimped and saved to send her to private school - including trips abroad etc - but there was never snobbery.

I don't know why some people are saying it will cost £100k. The fees are paid for I thought it was transportation, uniforms and extras only that OP was funding.
I definitely think she should go, it sounds like she's desperate to, and is obviously very bright. It sounds like financially OP could earn more in the future- getting a job at the school is the best idea - and in a year or so maybe DD could get a weekend job like a paper round or babysitting to cover any extras.

You've said you hope to be in a better financial position to be able to send your younger DCs, is that likely? Do you forsee you'll get a promoted post? And have you calculated how much your situation can improve without taking you out of eligibility for the bursary/scholarship?

I think you have to send her but you need to remember she isn't you. There is a hint that you're chasing what you consider your unfulfilled potential by sending her to a school that you would have preferred too. If she's as quirky and quiet as you think (you've mentioned it in nearly every description of her) then she might not be happy there. Private schools are not an oasis of motivated, kind, mature DCs. I don't agree that all your DCs need to go there. DCs have different skills and interests. But if they want to attend then you need to give them the option.
As PPs have said uniform costs aren't an issue. There will be second-hand uniform available. It is the day trips, requirements for ipads for lessons, etc, that add up.

My son goes to an independent school. I run the second hand uniform sales. We have mountains of stock, we were practically giving it away last term. It is bought by parents who I know have plenty of money just as much as by those who might be a bit more financially stretched. There is no stigma, in fact it’s cool to reuse and recycle and the school endorses that as a philosophy.

Your DD has played a blinder and sounds like a great, motivated girl. You are too far down the line now to back out, she will never forgive you. You should have pulled the plug before applying if cost was looking to be prohibitive.

I can’t imagine that any school could possibly have a policy of one bursary per family, that would be a grossly unfair policy. If your other kids want to they can try the exam just like their sister. If they don’t get it, that’s no different to her making the hockey team and them not, or her having a musical talent that they do not.

I’m really really confused, though, how a teacher would not realise that “grammar school” has a very specific meaning and (regardless of what the school calls itself) describing it as a grammar when you meant independent school was going to cause massive confusion.

I'd have a word with the school. They usually have secondhand uniform shops where the kit is available at a fraction of the price and often a fund for bursary children to help them to do the 'extras' such as days out, residentials, etc. It may well be that your school will have these things and you'll be able to get the extra support you need for your child to attend. Good luck!

OP bursaries are offered on merit/financial circumstances. Having a sibling already at the school in a bursary-aided place strengthens not weakens a younger sibling's application, subject to them meeting the academic threshold. Your contribution is reduced if you have more than one child at a school ( same as with fee aping parents). Part of the schools rationale is that they "know what they're getting" with a sibling in terms of the individual's likely levels of motivation and parental support. The extra curricular opportunities are also astonishing and they don't cost you anything, ditto the range and potential combination of subjects at GSCE and A-level.

@Photolass

Absolutely send her. She has passed the exam without being tutored, which immediately means she must be very bright. The majority of children who pass the independent school exams are heavily tutored for at least a year and often more, despite the fact that they might not admit it. It simply isn't true to say that a bright child will do well anywhere. The level of education is more robust in the private system. It has to be. Parents are paying for it. Generally the teachers are highly qualified and enthusiastic about their subjects, and pastoral care is excellent.

@Photolass - my mum used to tutor children from prep schools and non prep schools for independent school exams. Most children need the extra prep as it's not a given you'll just get in!

Even my school which was a private convent had entrance exams (easy though they just wanted the money!).

I think that’s a brilliant deal OP re the bursary amount. I would absolutely go for it.

Really bright kids who get sent to state school are usually just left to rot while the teachers concentrate on the ‘slower’ students. 1,000% go for it! As you said, you’ve got years to figure things out financially before the younger two are secondary age.

@Loopytiles

Agree that fair doesn’t have to mean the same, but here we’re talking £100k+ being spent on one of three DC.

Hard to balance that up!

You wouldn’t have to balance it up. It’s not OP’s money.

@madeittofriday

Well this could have been me. I was awarded almost full scholarship for Y7 private school, with the alternative school both my parents taught at. They decided not to send me to the private school mostly because they were worried about paying my DB fees later.

I resented my DP, absolutely hated having them teaching at the same school, was picked on by other pupils and some staff who did not like my DF in particular. I stopped trying to do well and spent as little time at home or school as I could.

I applied again for Y9 entry and got a partial scholarship, smaller than before but everyone had realised it was for the best and off I went. Best thing that ever happened to me. My DB was perfectly happy at the local state school - had none of the same issues and we're now in our 40s with no issue at all about the different schools we ended up at.

Your DD sounds very bright and I would give her every chance to take the opportunity she has made for herself.

This.

Although my story is different, it may also help. My parents didn't let me sit the equivalent of the 11+ where I grew up (ideological reasons, although I doubt they could have afforded it either - left wing academic parents) and sent me to a local "very highly rated" comprehensive (although they picked - I was not consulted). I was absolutely miserable there, unbelieveably lonely and picked on for getting top grades - the school, for the first time, had a "girls" and "boys" science prize, because otherwise that would have meant a girl getting the top prize - which I think was their attempt to head off some of the bullying. We had ridiculous situations like me getting 100% in maths tests and the next top mark was 60%.

The only thing in my favour was that I was technically too young for the year - and age wise, fell within the age criteria (just) for the following year's 11+. So I pursuaded my parents to let me sit the scholarship exams (because it was based on age, not year), for an academic private school - we phoned around the schools to check that if I won the scholarship, they would let me go into Year 8, not Year 7, and while most said no, one said yes, I sat the scholarship, won it, and on the basis that I had "earned" my way into the school, my parents let me go. Undoubtedly the best thing that happened to me ever. I don't think I would ever have forgiven them if they had insisted on my staying for another 6 years of purgatory in the school in which they enrolled me.

BTW, after my experience, my parents let my DB sit the scholarship exams for the equivalent boys private schools. My DB won the scholarship - and decided to turn it down in favour of a new state grammar that they were just setting up (it was not selective in my time, three years later, it was). You never know what siblings will or won't want (or what opportunities might be available to them that were not available to the older ones). But there was no question that if he hadn't won the scholarship, they would have sent him to the private school anyway, just because I had. In their view - it was like I had financially contributed the amount of the scholarship (which in those days was full, and not means tested). In a way, it was not their money to throw away, it was effectively money I earned. Just as I would not take my adult child's earnings to subsidise my younger children, it would not have been right to take away what I earned just because my DB might or might not earn the same.

I think, given how much her heart is set on it, you really must let her go.

I'd say yabu if you don't let her go. She sounds like she will thrive there and she deserves that chance.