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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To send my eldest to grammar school knowing it’ll be a squeeze?

493 replies

Troisfoisfilles · 03/03/2022 22:37

So my eldest just won a place at a really good grammar school in our area to start year 7 in September which is great.
She did so well in the entrance exam and interview that she was offered a scholarship and we have been awarded a brilliant bursary. Only trouble is, the bursary doesn’t cover everything and even the transport and uniform are a huge expense! It’s going to be a massive squeeze on finances. I also have two younger children who will no doubt miss out on little treats and things that I won’t be able to afford any longer 😞.
She is very intelligent and would do well at any school but I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school.
I originally applied for a place for her at the school I teach at. It’s a great school and she would do ok there but I don’t want just ok for her. For a start, she’s really quite eccentric and mature for her age. Kids similar to this at my school don’t really go down that well and are singled out by the others - kids are horrid!
I really believe she needs the small classes, discipline and pushiness she’d get at a grammar.
So am I being unreasonable in sending her?

OP posts:
TheOrigRights · 04/03/2022 14:40

I know a woman with 5 kids and they’ve done a mix of private and state depending on what goes for each child. Some also went to different state schools.

I think this is the best approach. I have a 10 year age gap between my 2 sons. DS1 (now 23) went to private 6th form and that was a great fit for him.
Whether that will be right for DS2 I don't know. But if it is I will know that I will be able to send him.

BuffyFanForever · 04/03/2022 14:41

Make sure to take into account the rise in fees each year, usually around 6% . Will your scholarship etc cover this ongoing? If so then go for it. It sounds like your daughter has worked really hard and deserves the place she has won. Just because you teach in another school dos absolutely not mean that school is the right place for each of your children. Please ignore the nasty comments “fine for other but not yours” they are nonsense. As any decent teacher knows what works for one child won’t necessarily work for another! Good luck

2DemisSVP · 04/03/2022 14:49

Oh good, glad @Mummyoflittledragon already tackled the fallacy. Am in an area of one grammar. Many bright kids opt to go to local comp instead. But they are not stretched like they are at the grammar. They may do fine, but large proportion def seem to gradually become embarrassed about being seen as “sweats”. Even if they still get straights As, they would have gained broader and deeper understanding at the grammar. But comes down to how important the academics are. Are we talking aiming for top competitive courses and careers, or just standard graduate level. If just standard, maybe comp is better as less pressure ? And you can’t know that about your child in Year 6 … total empathy, such a hard choice to make.

CowboyJo · 04/03/2022 14:51

If you can't pay for it, don't send her there. Private schools are a load of snobby poppycock as far as I'm concerned.
She'll still reach her potential at a state school.

CowboyJo · 04/03/2022 14:53

I remember back in the 2000s there was a story on Corrie when Sally sends her daughter Rosie to private school because she thinks she's too good for state school.
To cut a long story short, it doesn't do her any favours Grin

Wishihadanalgorithm · 04/03/2022 14:54

Send her. Figure out ways to pay for the extra so it doesn’t impact your other children. Can you do additional tutoring to bump up your income? What about exam marking?

Children don’t need to be treated the same to be treated fairly and equally. Your school sounds like a lot of comprehensive schools which fight against social issues to get the best from the children. I have no doubt that your DD will do better at the grammar/indie.

JustMarriedBecca · 04/03/2022 14:55

For everyone saying 'give each child an equal chance' if they sit the entrance and get given a bursary is that also not the chance?
Don't penalise the eldest because of other siblings. If you can afford for all 3 to go (on bursaries like the eldest) yes.

CowboyJo · 04/03/2022 14:56

@Wishihadanalgorithm

Send her. Figure out ways to pay for the extra so it doesn’t impact your other children. Can you do additional tutoring to bump up your income? What about exam marking?

Children don’t need to be treated the same to be treated fairly and equally. Your school sounds like a lot of comprehensive schools which fight against social issues to get the best from the children. I have no doubt that your DD will do better at the grammar/indie.

which fight against social issues

What are you talking about? Children in less fortunate families? Children with incarcerated parents? Children with mental illness or special needs?

Nevermakeit · 04/03/2022 14:57

I would put her in the grammar school (and I say this as someone who has had to face a very similar situation).
As you say, there is no guarantee the others will have the same potential, or the same need. I think it would be madness to hold one child back 'in case' the same situation were to come up for another one, 5 years down the line! Your finances might change, the others might not get in, someone might get knocked down by a bus, or whatever.... I mean, you never know what life will bring, good or bad, so you need to make the best decision for now and the foreseeable (which in the current environment means the next couple of years at most).

I think if you don't send her, you will always have that regret and worry and wonder 'what if' - especially at moments when she is not happy, or things are not going well, which will invariably happen anywhere. And at that point it will be too late to change things.
If you can afford the fees that is all that matters - the rest can be managed: there are always 2nd hand uniform sales, so that needn't cost a fortune. And for the extras, my advice would be not to get carried away: they don't NEED to do the music lessons, or the ski trips in the holidays and the like. I have told my DS that he will not be doing these things, but he WILL be getting a fantastic education, and enjoying it (a lot of nice things are included within the fees already, more than he would have got elsewhere). And he is fine with that.
And don't feel the pressure to keep up with the other parents. I see so many people on MN making themselves miserable worrying about that, when it really doesn't matter - what matters is that at 18 your child will have reached her full potential, and whatever happens you will know you did the best by her.
And for the other children, you can deal with this as it gets closer to their turn: start earning additional income, putting money aside, etc etc. If you are still able to afford holidays (not necessarily abroad), and quality time as a family, they will be fine.

StrychnineInTheSandwiches · 04/03/2022 14:58

Don't penalise the eldest because of other siblings. If you can afford for all 3 to go (on bursaries like the eldest) yes.

Likewise don't penalise the younger two because the family budget is being squeezed by paying for the very basic extras such as uniforms and travel. Not even getting on to the school trips and sports equipment etc.

Chessie678 · 04/03/2022 15:00

I disagree with the "bright kids do well anywhere" mentality. A bright child will probably get good exam results at a state school. That doesn't mean they have reached their full potential. From experience, a good selective independent school will provide a syllabus which goes way beyond the exam syllabus and stretches all children. When everyone in a class is capable of getting As or A*s you can teach the class to that level and take out groups who are working at higher than that level to do higher level work. The subject choice at independent schools also tends to be wider so, for example, you take 4 or 5 A levels instead of 3 if you're capable of it or continue to take a second language even if not doing an exam in it.

I went to a selective independent girls' school on a scholarship after being very unhappy at a state secondary. I applied myself without my parents knowledge because I wanted to go so much.

I was by no means the brightest at that school. There were some children who were real geniuses and that is a special need which needs specialist teaching and attention in my view which state schools will find it difficult to give. Some of those children may have been fine at state school because they would have taught themselves but some may have coasted or become despondent and demotivated. It was actually very good for me to know that even though I was getting good grades and had been one of the top students at my state school, there were many children who are much brighter than me and it pushed me to achieve.

Obviously there is still bullying at independent schools. I can only speak for my experiences but I found that eccentricities and being very academic were tolerated much better at independent school than at the state school I went to and that behaviour was generally better. At highly selective independent schools there tends to be a culture of working hard and wanting to get good grades so it isn't behaviour which is usually bullied (though the atmosphere at these schools can also be pressured).

I would also say that my own experience was that people didn't generally know how much money other children's parents had and who had bursaries etc. Unless you are talking about one of the prestigious public schools, a lot of children who go to private school are quite ordinary - at mine 10% were on bursaries or substantial scholarships and in many cases fees were paid from inheritance or grandparents and children lived in very ordinary houses and parents had ordinary jobs. There may be more of an expectation that you can afford expensive foreign trips and uniform and so on though.

So I think there's a good chance it will benefit your daughter but it's not an easy decision taking into account your other children and the cost.

Most independent schools have a second hand uniform shop though so you could ask about this.

ElIie · 04/03/2022 15:02

You should definitely send her.

I went to a private school on a 100% scholarship and it changed my life.

It seems like it will be a really good fit for your DD and it will be heartbreaking for her to have got this far having done so well only for her to be denied the opportunity.

As for concerns about additional costs, I found that if the school really wants your DD they will go out of their way to keep her once she is there.

When I was there my parents couldn't really afford the horse riding lessons so the school paid for them, and another scholarship girl had a family breakdown so they let her board for free. If your DD is capable of bolstering their results they will do all they can to keep her. My friend's sister was on a 90% scholarship but after her mother lost her job they upped it to 100% and covered the cost of the school bus. Absolutely zero bullying when I was there.

Also, as an incredibly shy kid (I was selectively mute at primary) being in smaller classes helped me develop more confidence and get my voice heard.

The alumni networks are also very helpful.

londonmummy1966 · 04/03/2022 15:03

I think that you should ask for an appointment to meet the school bursar and talk through your concerns over meeting additional costs and future fee rises with them. They are the expert on what happens/has happened in a range of scenarios. It might also be the case that if you get a bursary you get an allowance for uniform/school bus and trips or that there are items that are donated in full to the PTA uniform sales which can be given away to pupils where the families struggle with the costs. (I used to run 2nd hand uniform at a private school and would occasionally get taken to one side and asked to find items - sometimes I'd meet the parent/child and sometimes I'd be asked to drop items of a specific size at the school office for passing on and never knew who they were for.)

Acesup · 04/03/2022 15:11

Similar to others, I think at this point you should send her. If she wants to go and has aced the exam, if you don't send her, anything and everything that goes wrong in the future will be because she couldn't go to this school.

Acesup · 04/03/2022 15:11

(In her mind that is, which then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy)

ittakes2 · 04/03/2022 15:13

If she has achieved a scholarship ignore people who are saying you need to treat the younger the same. If they also get a scholarship to the same school than they are on the same page.
You other children are so young - she will be in the last year of her A levels when the middle child starts school.
I have twins - one who goes to a private school (her choice) and the other a local free grammar school (his choice). He doesn't want to go private - I threaten him with private if he doesn't do well enough to stay at the grammar because I know he wants to stay there. He would hate the idea of catching a bus to school - he prefers to walk.
You have no idea what your other children will be like now. And you said yourself you hope to be better off when they are older. This is her chance to follow a life dream I can't see how you can turn her down.

CowboyJo · 04/03/2022 15:14

@Acesup

Similar to others, I think at this point you should send her. If she wants to go and has aced the exam, if you don't send her, anything and everything that goes wrong in the future will be because she couldn't go to this school.
Uh...no?

It's what she makes of herself, private school or not. A person's life doesn't just rest on what school they go to.

Womanofcustard · 04/03/2022 15:15

I passed my 11-plus and went to Grammar School, 5 miles away. I hated it. My parents couldn’t afford the uniform either. My 2 younger sisters went to the local Secondary Modern. Despite myself and my mother pleading for me to be allowed to go to the local school with the Headmaster, I was forced to stay there. I walked out of my Grammar School at age 15 (giving my age away there!) with no qualifications. I honestly think I would have done much better at local school with other family members.
OP, you have a difficult decision to make, and your daughter’s feeling about going to this Independent school may change when her siblings go to the local school. Good luck.

Blossomtoes · 04/03/2022 15:19

and your daughter’s feeling about going to this Independent school may change when her siblings go to the local school

Why would that happen? She’ll be halfway through her GCSE course with an established friendship group by then.

Fromthebirdsnest · 04/03/2022 15:20

1000% send her ...

DillDanding · 04/03/2022 15:25

I’m all for independent schooling, but not if it means treating your children unequally.

There are some fabulous state schools out there. But even if there aren’t in your area, you should only consider independent school if you can afford to send all of your children.

Troisfoisfilles · 04/03/2022 15:28

So by missing out, I mean that they ALL might only get £50 each spent on them for Xmas instead of £100, or that instead of going to legoland or Alton towers for the day, we might just go to the local beach, or that we might only go on holiday for a week instead of 2.
It’s not day-day stuff I’m worried about. It’s about the big treats.
And the other two will 100% be given the same opportunities as DD1. For instance, when it comes to it, DD2 will be allowed to take the entrance exam for the school too. And if DD3 improves academically, she will also. Or if she wants to continue her favourite activity to a higher level, I’ll put the extra costs involved into that too.
In regards to ‘me putting her forward for the exam knowing I wouldn’t be able to afford it’ that’s unfair. She was desperate to try out for it. I sat down with her and gave her all the details about whether I thought I could afford it, how she’d need to have a scholarship and bursary for it to even be a possibility, about how she’d be ‘the poor kid’, about how I might not be to afford all the school trips etc etc. She is very mature for her age and thought about it very carefully beforehand. She really wanted to give it a go.

OP posts:
LampLighter414 · 04/03/2022 15:31

I think if you can scrape by for now that's fine.

But longer term if your other DC may follow suit then what are the career prospects and earning potential for both yourself and your DP (if you have one living with you - sorry I couldn't spot it from a quick flick through your posts). You can't bank on the other DC being awarded such big scholarships/bursary so might have to pay significant fees in the future

couldhave · 04/03/2022 15:32

Other options instead of cut-backs affecting all the children would be to earn more? Can you or other adults with parental responsibility take on more hours, apply for promotion etc?

Get second-hand uniform/equipment, but make sure it's the proper regulation stuff so she doesn't feel different.
Explain in advance before she starts that certain school trips won't be possible (even in state schools, the ski trips etc are not affordable for most families).

TatianaBis · 04/03/2022 15:33

I'm assuming you're French OP - not just the username but you spelt independent the French way with an a. (And an accidental acute accent), which explains the confusions over private/grammar.

It's a no brainer, of course she must go.

Bear in mind that some private schools have the flexibility to increase bursary value should the need arise in the future.