To send my eldest to grammar school knowing it’ll be a squeeze?

[Troisfoisfilles]

So my eldest just won a place at a really good grammar school in our area to start year 7 in September which is great.
She did so well in the entrance exam and interview that she was offered a scholarship and we have been awarded a brilliant bursary. Only trouble is, the bursary doesn’t cover everything and even the transport and uniform are a huge expense! It’s going to be a massive squeeze on finances. I also have two younger children who will no doubt miss out on little treats and things that I won’t be able to afford any longer 😞.
She is very intelligent and would do well at any school but I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school.
I originally applied for a place for her at the school I teach at. It’s a great school and she would do ok there but I don’t want just ok for her. For a start, she’s really quite eccentric and mature for her age. Kids similar to this at my school don’t really go down that well and are singled out by the others - kids are horrid!
I really believe she needs the small classes, discipline and pushiness she’d get at a grammar.
So am I being unreasonable in sending her?

Not sure what that means. Unless you think she plans to block their access to education.

@TatianaBis

Not sure what that means. Unless you think she plans to block their access to education.

It means that she has very limited means. So it's a massive scrimping stretch to send one kid to this not very amazing private school. And given that, she's going to really bloody struggle for the next kid.

Full disclosure - I'm privately educated. I had the tennis courts and the rugby fields and the choirs. All that stuff. My kids are at state grammar. They're getting similar GCSEs and A levels to me. With all my super privilege.

I really don't get the massive drama about school on MN. No one gives a shit once you've gone to university. All you need to do is get into a decent one. All this handwringing is bonkers.

Well you wouldn’t would you - if you went to private and your kids are at grammars - which are pretty much like private school.

Of course grammars are getting results similar to private schools, some of them perform much better.

However, if grammars were an option for OP I doubt she’d be scrimping for this school. She quite clearly states there are none within 50 miles.

DD2 is equally academic, so a bursary may be an option for her too in time. OP may be earning more. DD3, if less academic, though the younger they are the harder it is to tell, could consider a means tested school like Christ’s Hospital or a state boarding school.

I was privately educated and had a bad experience. I flunked my A Levels (bullying/poor teaching). I am a teacher by profession and all my children went/go to the local big comp. They never have had less than an A at GCSE or A Level. Mostly A* at A Level.
There are no grammars nor private schools within 40 min drive so everyone goes to this school. There are a few that go to Oxbridge but it isn’t pushed - my eldest preferred the course at another Uni so didn’t even apply.
We are lucky that we are geographically isolated so that it is a proper comprehensive experience. I would say the facilities are similar to the ones I had at private school except sports and the teachers’ photo-copying budget. My children's school hasn’t got the sports fixtures or grounds but then the local town has and they all play there instead.

…what I wanted to finish on is that this thread shows a lot of people have talked about their own school experience and if it was bad, tried to do the opposite for their children ie switched private to state etc. Therefore you are never going to get a consensus as it’s such an emotive issue on many factors that are not relevant to you.

@Blogblogblogblog there's no guarantees in life no matter what OP bases her decision on. It's a gamble either way tricky situation

@MrsWinters

It’s a great opportunity for her. She sounds driven and determined. Quite frankly if I had this opportunity as a child and my parent didn’t pull out all the stops to make it happen I would struggle very much as an adult to forgive them. This could be a gamechanger for her. Speak with the school about uniforms and things, they’ll be able to help out with secondhand things

This is terrible. OP is a single parent to 3 kids = solely one income plus 2 other kids to consider.. kids become more expensive as they get older.

You can't always have your way in life. You also have to live within your means!

It's unfair but isn't life?

In a post Covid world, with less job security and increasing prices everywhere, I predict (1) fewer parents committing to private school, (2) schools increasing fees and offering fewer bursaries. I think it would be risky to sign up for a financial commitment that's currently just beyond reach and will only become less affordable as time passes

And I take exception to your blanket statement that you "know for a fact" that your DD would struggle at ANY state school, but that's a separate issue

Also, what if your younger DC want to go on a different type of course when they're older? Are you going to say no on principle because older DD wasn't allowed to achieve her goal? Or say yes because you've said no to DD, and no one gets to?

*Mangled sentence - the end should say - or say yes having said no to DD

This seems a no brainer. Obviously, send your daughter to this school.

You can make decisions regarding your other children when they are necessary and when they are 11 there will be other advantages in your life - from career progression to not having your attention divided by younger siblings.

Congratulations to your daughter. She sounds brilliant!

In your shoes, I'd send her to the independent grammar for all the reasons you've given. Can you supplement your income with things like marking exam papers and tuition?

You would be doing your child a disservice not to send them. It will change the course of their life.

There is a thing called 'goal contagion'. The goals people have match the goals of those around them. If you are in a deprived area, unfortunately, most of the time people repeat a pattern and the majority will remain living in the deprived area. Of course not everyone, but that will be 'normal'.

Going to school with people who have goals of travel, professional careers like those of people around them will inspire your child.

Are your wages going to go up that significantly in the next four years that you will go from having to cut treats, etc to send one child to this school to being able to afford to send three children to the school, should they wish to go and all pass the entrance exam? What happens if you don’t get the promotion you are expecting in the next few years?
Even if you don’t think your third child is as academically gifted as the first two, to be fair, you will still have to give her the opportunity to sit the entrance exam if she wishes to. You have already under estimated how well your eldest would do, so there is a chance you have under estimated what your youngest is capable of.
It is a very difficult dilemma and really something you should have thought about in great detail before allowing your eldest to sit the entrance exam but that’s by the by now. As it stands, your eldest may resent you if you don’t allow her to go; either one or both of your younger children may resent it if they are not given the same opportunity or everything may work out fine. Any of these situations are a possibility and it’s impossible to know which the future will hold.
I know someone who’s second child got a scholarship and was the only one out of four to go a private school and there were never any problems or animosity with this, as far as I’m aware of, but she would have already been at the school before the youngest two were born. May have been totally different if any of the other children wanted the same opportunity and they weren’t in the position to even let them try though.

@TatianaBis If you read my comments, I said "apart from academics" - like smaller class sizes, better facilities or better extracurricular activities etc (dependent on the school, as different schools focus on different things) these factors have an benefit regardless of whether a child is academic or not.

And actually, I said only do it if you could "afford to send the other two to independent school (not necessarily the same one) too..." because academics is not the only factor here.

I would let her go. Cross the bridge when it comes re the other children. In my experience, no child at private judges another for being less well off. It’s just insecurity if parents projecting what they feel. Kids are kids and they don’t care what size of house you have…it’s who they get on with. That’s my view anyway.

[quote VivX]@TatianaBis If you read my comments, I said "apart from academics" - like smaller class sizes, better facilities or better extracurricular activities etc (dependent on the school, as different schools focus on different things) these factors have an benefit regardless of whether a child is academic or not.

And actually, I said only do it if you could "afford to send the other two to independent school (not necessarily the same one) too..." because academics is not the only factor here.[/quote]
Well no you didn’t actually. But even if you had, grammar schools can still have good music, art, theatre and sports departments.

And in terms of pastoral support a young relative of mine who moved from independent to state grammar has found the pastoral care at the latter far superior.

There are no private (fee paying) grammars in the UK. Some private schools are better than others academically.

I think you need to do more research on the school and all the pros and cons before deciding.

A lot of people at private schools are very rich and your dd might be mixing with folk much richer than her. Will she feel like the poor relation?

From experience honestly don’t do it. Three years ago we made a similar decision, to send DD private knowing it would change our lifestyle and involve sacrifices and it’s awful. I have no fun and no joy in my life and I regularly contemplate suicide. If I could go back I d have gone state every time but now she’s over halfway through year 9 it would break her so I am utterly stuck in this misery. The school is amazing but it is not worth the impact on my mental health and our family life. I would advise anyone against this miserable situation I am in. We will never get this time back and it is my biggest regret. You can avoid this misery so please do!

@Coasterfan

From experience honestly don’t do it. Three years ago we made a similar decision, to send DD private knowing it would change our lifestyle and involve sacrifices and it’s awful. I have no fun and no joy in my life and I regularly contemplate suicide. If I could go back I d have gone state every time but now she’s over halfway through year 9 it would break her so I am utterly stuck in this misery. The school is amazing but it is not worth the impact on my mental health and our family life. I would advise anyone against this miserable situation I am in. We will never get this time back and it is my biggest regret. You can avoid this misery so please do!

I’m so sorry to hear this and hope things get better for you I think a decision like this needs to be taken on what works best for the whole family not just 1 members

@whiteworldgettingwhiter

There are no private (fee paying) grammars in the UK. Some private schools are better than others academically.

I think you need to do more research on the school and all the pros and cons before deciding.

A lot of people at private schools are very rich and your dd might be mixing with folk much richer than her. Will she feel like the poor relation?

Of course there are private grammars. Some grammars immediately went private as soon as the move to abolish them started. Many of them do have generous bursary systems to try to make access broad.

Unless you’re interpreting “grammar school” in some way other than “selective secondary open to all”.

Why are people being dicks about the use of the grammar school term, along with digs such as ‘I thought the whole point was they’re free’, ‘as a teacher I’m astonished you dont know this’ and ‘you must be French’

Depends how much money you are talking. If you need an extra £1k a year for transport and uniform then it’s probably very achievable through trying to boost your income slightly and cutting back. My kids have never been to Alton towers and I think they’d be a bit pissed off if I took them and said “this is instead of your school bus fare”. They’d think I was cracked. Also 2 weeks holiday is LOADS. They will be fine with less.
Most people are paying for more expensive uniform and trips and often transport for their older child while their younger ones are still in primary. That’s not unfair in itself. It’s only unfair if when dc2 comes along they aren’t allowed to go to the same school because you’ll only pay for dc1. Being part of a sibling group involves missing out financially and in terms of time and attention, sometimes winning, sometimes losing. That’s just how it is and we have to hope that the benefits of siblings compensate for it.
If you are talking transport and uniform plus 50% fees and the transport and uniform by itself is a stretch then it seems like a non starter. I’d also be hesitant in sending an eccentric kid into a very small year group.

Regarding the comments about wealthy kids, my DD’s best friend’s parents own a dozen race horses and live in a £million + with acres, one of my DS’s close friend’s parents own a castle and a helicopter.
It has made absolutely no difference to their friendships, other than demonstrating to my DCs where hard work can take you.
There are plenty of other kids in the school that live in average houses, drive ageing cars, with parents who work really hard to pay for them to be there - it’s not all 6 holidays a year and second homes in Cornwall.