To send my eldest to grammar school knowing it’ll be a squeeze?

[Troisfoisfilles]

So my eldest just won a place at a really good grammar school in our area to start year 7 in September which is great.
She did so well in the entrance exam and interview that she was offered a scholarship and we have been awarded a brilliant bursary. Only trouble is, the bursary doesn’t cover everything and even the transport and uniform are a huge expense! It’s going to be a massive squeeze on finances. I also have two younger children who will no doubt miss out on little treats and things that I won’t be able to afford any longer 😞.
She is very intelligent and would do well at any school but I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school.
I originally applied for a place for her at the school I teach at. It’s a great school and she would do ok there but I don’t want just ok for her. For a start, she’s really quite eccentric and mature for her age. Kids similar to this at my school don’t really go down that well and are singled out by the others - kids are horrid!
I really believe she needs the small classes, discipline and pushiness she’d get at a grammar.
So am I being unreasonable in sending her?

Just popping on to say that i am the youngest of 3. My eldest brother boarded at a fairly famous public school (with scholarships and bursaries). The second was coached/encouraged to do the 11+ and was sent to a selective school some miles away. I was a fair bit younger and went to the local comp.

It is only now that i have a teen in a selective Independent school and see how she is urged to try so many new things that i wonder "what if...". It's cool to be clever at her school. It isn't something you try to hide to avoid being bullied.

DD's school is very old and has a hefty bursary fund (bolstered by some of the richer parents during the pandemic). I seem to remember that at least 1/3 have some (a handful have all) of their fees paid.

Nearly everybody wears some secondhand uniform and there isn't that pressure to "buy new" each year. Yes a few kids have ridiculously flashy lifestyles, but most don't and the kids don't seem to care.

OP i should observe that quite a few parents go on to teach at their child's school. Is that an option later on?

I’d send her to the private school.
Many years ago, my twin sister and I sat entrance exams for a private girls school that is often mentioned on the secondary education forum.
I got a scholarship, my sister didn’t, so my parents decided to send us both to our local comp, rather than let me go the the girls school.

My sister thoroughly enjoyed her time at comp - she wasn’t bothered about grades - but I was bullied for being talented at music, and my time there was miserable.
I’ve never quite got over my parents choosing not to give me the opportunity to go to an amazing school.

I have 2 DC, the older of whom has ADHD. She started off on our local comp but was miserable, so we moved her to a private school, knowing that DS would be ok at the state school.
When it came to it, he asked if he could apply for a co-Ed private school. He got a scholarship and bursary, and then DD got the same when she chose to move there for 6th form.
DS has recently been offered 100% bursary for a specialist boarding school for 6th form.

You never know what doors might open in the future, OP.

[quote gogohm]@GraciousPiglet

Plenty of grammar schools are fee paying.

[/quote]
Are they? They might be called 'Bla Bla Grammar school' but I don't think they fall under the standard definition of grammar school.
OP is not in Scotland. I don't know about Wales.

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Completely disagree on costs and 'poor student'. My dd is at a selective independent with a 25% scholarship. In her year at least 15% have full bursaries (to qualify household income must be below 60k) for any bursary never mind full.

Extras are minimal - lunch is included as are clubs, after and Saturday school activities, trips (bar international which are limited - no jollies - and subsidised for bursary). Uniform is costly but there is a thriving secondhand market and as it is great quality - also good value.

It is obvious there is a wealth spectrum via the cars, houses, birthday plans but it has never been an issue. I imagine it differs per school but the extras a good independent offers for free cost a fortune to bolt onto state.

Of course they’re offering her a substantial bursary, they want her to boost their exam results and boast about her Oxbridge entrance success. And so another state comprehensive is deprived of teaching a bright pupil and showing what they can achieve. I know several children, now adults, who went to the local comp. The teachers were so pleased to have them that they went over and above their normal teaching duties to give them what they needed to achieve their full potential - masters degrees, doctorates, Oxbridge success. If only more parents had faith in state education there would be a better balance of pupils in our comprehensive schools and their exam results would reflect this.

That's a very cynical and misguided comment @bossyrossy. If the school requires prospective students to pass an entrance exam then the successful candidates must fall within a specific academic bell curve. One gifted pupil (or even a whole bursary cohort) won't distort the external exam results to any significant degree, especially when the cohort as a whole is already achieving a prescribed standard. Do you seriously think that fee-paying parents would be happy if their children weren't achieving or contributing to the school's exam success? Of course they wouldn't; they'd vote with their feet. and, if you weren't; aware, most independent schools (including faith schools) build in a bursary premium to their fees specifically to support the overall fund. In effect it means that every fee-payer is helping to support children in the school other than their own.

It’s a great opportunity for her. She sounds driven and determined. Quite frankly if I had this opportunity as a child and my parent didn’t pull out all the stops to make it happen I would struggle very much as an adult to forgive them. This could be a gamechanger for her.
Speak with the school about uniforms and things, they’ll be able to help out with secondhand things

I would send her. I have an awful relationship with my mother but the one thing I am eternally grateful for was for my parents scrimping and saving and suffering financial hardship for a few years so that I could go to an independent school (I had a scholarship but it didn’t cover everything).

sorry, may I also want to ask when a child gets bursary or scholarship is it until they finish secondary which is year 11? Or up to year 9 then they reconsider the childrens ability?

@bossyrossy

Of course they’re offering her a substantial bursary, they want her to boost their exam results and boast about her Oxbridge entrance success. And so another state comprehensive is deprived of teaching a bright pupil and showing what they can achieve. I know several children, now adults, who went to the local comp. The teachers were so pleased to have them that they went over and above their normal teaching duties to give them what they needed to achieve their full potential - masters degrees, doctorates, Oxbridge success. If only more parents had faith in state education there would be a better balance of pupils in our comprehensive schools and their exam results would reflect this.

Except that research by the Sutton Trust in 2016 found that 40% of 1600 state teachers "rarely" or "never" recommended their brightest students try for Oxbridge. A proportion that not significantly changed from the same study 10 years previously.

If you live in a poor, deprived area and the schools aren't great, I would send her to the private school.
I was fortunate to go to a private school in a deprived area - it's not just about the smaller class sizes and the academics; it's about raising life expectations and job routes that simply aren't covered at the local comp

I'd only send her if I could also afford to send the other 2 to an independent school (not necessarily the same one) too - even if they didn't get a scholarship or bursary.

I would lean towards sending her. But I would want to be very sure what was behind her motivation, is it the school being attractive, are there any issues with friends or other children going to the state school, does she want to avoid being at the school where her mum works? (I'd have hated that as a teenager). Could be worth floating the idea of you getting a job there to see how she reacts.

@VivX so you'd deny an academically gifted DC the chance to fulfil their potential unless you were earning a spare £30-40k p/a. It seems bonkers to me. If the other DDs are also that way inclined, they will get a bursary too, if not they go to state school.

[quote rookiemere]@VivX so you'd deny an academically gifted DC the chance to fulfil their potential unless you were earning a spare £30-40k p/a. It seems bonkers to me. If the other DDs are also that way inclined, they will get a bursary too, if not they go to state school.[/quote]
exactly this - if the daughter had been offered an amazing opportunity based on a different skillset rather than academia (modelling contract, football academy, space in a choir that performs internationally, olympic coaching, star in a film, whatever....) you think OP should say no because she couldn't guarantee her younger children wouldn't grow up to be equally attractive/sporty/talented/whatever?

@rookiemere Yes because the OP has 3 children. Doesn't seem fair that only of them gets to go to an independent school, even if the eldest is "academic" and the two aren't. There are plenty of independent schools with a different focus than straight "academics".

Independent schools are a different world to state schools for many reasons - better music and sports facilities, better extracurricular activities, smaller class sizes, more encouragement, the list goes on. Those are benefits for every child, so it is unfair that only the eldest get to benefit from that.

Seems bonkers to me to create an inequality between siblings that could potentially last a lifetime.

I would take this opportunity and grab it with both hands. Wow paid for better education for 7 years that could potentially have a lifelong impact over a few day trips and not as much spent on birthdays and christmas' - your younger dcs will have no concept over a trip to the beach or Alton towers for a while fun is fun for kids and time spent with a loving family is all they need. Opportunities and sacrifices are what children who grow up into adults remember about what their parents gave them/ did for them not how many times they went to Lego land, not material things .... obviously as long as they are all treat fairly with regards to opportunity's that arise or time spent furthering their skill set for the long term impact I can't see how anyone would care or know any different or have any resentment.

As you say your finances will hopefully improve and you can do more as the years go on!

If you can afford it she should absolutely go. Your other children may not want to follow her anyway. It's a fantastic opportunity. Well done to her for her achievement.

[quote VivX]**@rookiemere* Yes because the OP has 3* children. Doesn't seem fair that only of them gets to go to an independent school, even if the eldest is "academic" and the two aren't. There are plenty of independent schools with a different focus than straight "academics".

Independent schools are a different world to state schools for many reasons - better music and sports facilities, better extracurricular activities, smaller class sizes, more encouragement, the list goes on. Those are benefits for every child, so it is unfair that only the eldest get to benefit from that.

Seems bonkers to me to create an inequality between siblings that could potentially last a lifetime.[/quote]
That's not really true. Grammars provide comparable academic environments to private schools albeit with less funding. And some grammars and state 6th form colleges perform better in the league tables than many private schools.

It seems to me bonkers to deny DD1 an opportunity of a lifetime that she has sought out and worked hard for, on the basis that it might not be affordable for the other 2. They may get bursaries too, either to this school or another. If no independent school in the area would give them a bursary they might consider a means tested boarding school such as Christ's Hospital or a state boarding school like Cranbrook.

There are lots of options. The most important thing is that the school is right for the child - be it state or independent. Sometimes children are happier at state schools.

All children should get the same opportunities, whether they were born first or last.

@Clymene

All children should get the same opportunities, whether they were born first or last.

Which is why my older sister didn't get any opportunities - 'it wouldn't be fair on the boys'. The boys, being resolutely non academic and didn't want anything to do with the eleven plus, never mind private school. And they got all the sports activities and trips overseas with the school 'because they won't earn enough money to go on holiday when they're older'. Being fair, obviously, meant restricting the opportunities of the ones more able especially when female, not sporty and therefore of lesser value.

Nope that isn't what I said @NeverDropYourMooncup

@Clymene

All children should get the same opportunities, whether they were born first or last.

Depends what you mean. They should all get access to education. But that doesn’t necessarily mean then same school or the same type of education. It should be the most appropriate choice for them.

Equality does not mean the same.

Absolutely agree @TatianaBis
I'm not convinced that the OP plans to give her other children any boxes