AIBU to want my OH to earn more money?

[CafeNervosa]

AIBU?

I’ve been with my partner for 8 years (not married). We have two children, 1 and 4. And a mortgage. He is a great dad (and I mean this - much more present, sensitive) and does at least 50% of the housework, if not more.

But, I’m getting increasingly angry and frustrated at our finances and how id like more money for holidays and to save!

I work 30 hours a week in a professional job that earns a £32k salary. He is self-employed in a creative role, and I’m never exactly sure how much he earns a month/year because “it’s not that simple” and it also fluctuates quite a bit… and he needs to keep money in the business for expenses, tax etc so his clear take home income is not that transparent. And it’s difficult for me to challenge big purchases when he says they’re needed for my business.

His parents have always been terrible at managing money and as such he has huge anxiety about talking about money.

When we bought our house i got him to agree to a joint account, and we agreed to work out how much our bills and reasonable other spending would be, and split it in proportion to our earnings. And keep the rest in our own accounts. I agreed to do this on his worst case scenario month. Basically I paid 2/3 and he paid 1/3.

Then he got frustrated that he had v little disposable income, and I agreed (in a v stressful emotional conversation) to splitting it so that we instead have the same amount of disposable income each left. So I now pay more than 2x what he pays - so I pay £1250 a month, and he pays £450.

This is never really enough to pay for incidental stuff though, like Xmas and birthdays and new shoes for the children, new furniture for the house etc so I normally pay for these out of my own leftover money.

I’m getting increasingly frustrated that:
a) I’ve trained to be in a seemingly well-paid job but can’t really afford luxuries or to save anything for a holiday or the future, because he doesn’t earn enough money. Am I unreasonable that I want him to be a better business person and earn more money, even though he’s very good at what he does?
b) that he won’t be really transparent with me about his financial situation - for example, I paid off his overdraft when I came into some money that I later used for our house deposit, and then we went on a uk holiday and he went substantially back into his overdraft on the basis that I’d said it would be nice to go for lunch and other things, without knowing that would be the outcome, because he can’t talk about it because it stresses him out so much. If I’d known we could have changed to cheaper plans.

Does anyone have any advice about how I can help us be more organised and transparent with our finances so we can be more in control - especially with someone who has an anxious history with money? I’m never quite sure if it’s that we don’t have enough money or if it feels out of my control?

I cannot undrestand how people who have children together and a mortage do not know the full finances of thier partner.

Money is important in a relationahip, particuarly when it's scare, and you cannot operate if there are 'secrets' about money or thinsg that just don't get spoken about.

He shuold be prepared to gp through wth you all his business acounts, shwoing you his annual income, taxes and investments and futire plans etc.

You then disvuss whether these plans work for you as a family e.g. his has a few years where he inveests more, or he has to rethink his plan as his income is just too low to be sustainable, and you make these plans jointly.

Men with families who 'coast' not really pushing themselves to strive for the best for their family (in whatever way that might be) are not very attractive partners.

Men who are selfless, work hard priortising thier fanilies (in whatever way that might be) are sexy.

@CafeNervosa is he a limited company or sole trader? If limited then his turnover is available for anyone to see on companies house.
Sole trader is private though, however after 8years I'd think he should be earning more then he would being employed (that's usually the whole perk of being self employed) for the same hours - so minimum 30k. if not then he should up his fees.
Maybe take more of a role in helping him grow his business? Suggest you help look over the expenses etc.
You should definitely be paying 50/50 by now. Obviously in the first year of business things can be a struggle, but once established he should be contributing more.

I think it is probably unreasonable to ask him to earn more but not unreasonable to expect him to be transparent with you. I’d be twitchy if my other half was that bad with money and didn’t want to talk about it.

Surely he should get less disposable income if he earns left and you do equal housework. He's bringing less to the arrangement. Why should he get the same disposable income as you?

As many others have said he needs to be clearer on what he earns with you, it isn't fair.

And re the comments on expenses and tax - he should absolutely have a handle on these throughout the year. Yes tax is calculated at year end, but he should Eva me to estimate what the future tax bill will be for each month as he goes through the year - I used to do that and then put that amount in a separate account. Otherwise how can he possibly have a handle on the business finances? Similarly for expenses, yes they are variable, but he should be able to do some basic calcs either based on previous years, or some ratio of work done.

My suspicion is he doesn't have a veyy try good handle on the business finances (perhaps due to his past issues with money) and so buries his head in the sand about profitability because he knows he has you to cover any shortfall. I wouldn't be happy with this in your shoes - if he can't handle finances, he would be better to get a MW job based on what you have said. I hope you can get better clarity.

[quote Lookingforphev]@TheRealityCheque this isn't about what sex someone is. If your business does not make enough money to pay you a decent wage and your partner isn't happy or can't plug the gaps then you need to accept the business doesn't work.

Adults have financial responsibilities. You can't just say "oh my partner can fill the gap, while I get to do what I want" and expect the partner to be happy about it.[/quote]
Loads of women on here expect exactly that.

@zurala this is why I wanted to post here, to try to see if from the other side too.

Because he is self-employed and flexible, and because we rely on my income, if childcare falls through, he picks this up. But he also works 2-3 evenings a week, and I do pick up on 2 days so I do solo childcare 1 day a week and 2-3 long afternoons until bedtime. So he definitely picks up the slack in holidays but in a normal week we’re pretty equal.

This isn't about him earning more, it's entirely about communication. You need to see his business income and commitments for tax etc so you can jointly make a family budget.

I'm not sure I agree with each having the same to spend. I'd say it should be proportionate, which might encourage him to balance his books more carefully.

I have a DH who is self employed, and so I totally get the challenges of irregular income, planning for tax and outgoings and so on. I've really had to teach him how to do this as it didn't come naturally.

The key for us was doing regular accounts/bookkeeping/projections. So at least monthly he logs his income and expenses (I have set him up with a spreadsheet for this) so he knows what his profit is, and I've set up a tax calculation which effectively splits his personal allowance over the year and tells him how much he should have put aside to cover tax on the income already earned.

Similarly cashflow projections are now done at least monthly looking at projected income and outgoings. This was really important as his income has definite peaks and troughs so it was important for him to understand that money in the bank now isn't necessarily available, but the impact of taking it out now might not show up for a few months.

We've got to the stage through this process that he now draws out a consistent amount every month, regardless of whether its a hood or bad month, because our planning makes this possible. If he wants to take more for any reason he runs it through our cashflow sheet to see if it's ok. Similarly with business expenses - if he wants to spend on upgrading something then he needs to ensure that's affordable not just now, but when we hit a quieter period in a few months.

It's hard, and it's only possible with total transparency and a lot of financial common sense

I’ve been self-employed with a variable income previously for about five years but what you do is if you get to the middle of the month and you realise that you haven’t earned the £1250 required to pay the mortgage you up your game significantly and make sure that you have it’s just not optional there should be a minimum amount he needs to bring into the family to match your contribution otherwise you’re basically just keeping him like some sort of expensive cat

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing except he wouldn’t meet the turnover threshold actually…

Yes I was going to say, it depends on whether he’s over the threshold.

I know there are lots of ways to get paid from a company as a director but it might be worth looking into. The company still has to pay its tax, of course, but I think the company’s expenses would be more predictable, including his wages.

I’d get some expert advice though, from an accountant or similar

@SarahProblem if someone in a couple earns less but works the same hours, should they get less? Genuine question?

And yes, transparency and communication appear to be the primary issues here.

Loads of women on here expect exactly that.

Loads of men expect their wives to pick up the domestic slack on everything so they can carry out their very important man-job unhindered.

[quote Sunshinedreaming2022]@CafeNervosa is he a limited company or sole trader? If limited then his turnover is available for anyone to see on companies house.
Sole trader is private though, however after 8years I'd think he should be earning more then he would being employed (that's usually the whole perk of being self employed) for the same hours - so minimum 30k. if not then he should up his fees.
Maybe take more of a role in helping him grow his business? Suggest you help look over the expenses etc.
You should definitely be paying 50/50 by now. Obviously in the first year of business things can be a struggle, but once established he should be contributing more.[/quote]
That is incorrect, turnover does not have to be declared by a limited company if they’re a micro entity with a turnover beneath £632k which the majority of one man band companies are.

OP, does your partner use an accountant or are they preparing their own accounts/tax return? Sometimes it’s worth using an accountant to get everything tidied up and for them to suggest tax allowances that you may not know about.

It is more common than people think for self employed/one man band companies to totally bury their heads in the sand about financials. I’ve had grown men cry when I’ve told them their tax bills at the year end.

I know there are lots of ways to get paid from a company as a director but it might be worth looking into. The company still has to pay its tax, of course, but I think the company’s expenses would be more predictable, including his wages.

My DH takes a small monthly salary of his tax allowance. He then draws money out once a year in dividends.

@Bringsexyback big lol at expensive cat comment! I think you may have got to the root of something… I think he’s a bit of a victim about things. It’s because something doesn’t pay well enough, rather than thinking that’s how it is, how do I change myself to fit reality.

@CafeNervosa This sounds all too familiar to me! I agree that the lack of transparency is something that needs to be addressed.I think you have a right to see what his big company outlays are. But, I've been like your partner in that I think expenses should be budgeted for and then any leftover/disposable income should be split down the middle. This hasn't happened because my husband loves expensive luxuries, car, trips etc, and I do not get to make any decision on how any money is spent after essentials. This is very far from what I want, I am economical and want to live within our means! He is critical of me because my salary varies wildly - we both work in the same field which is unstable, but I work from contract to contract while he has had a well paid long term role for the last eight years. He considers the fact we never have spare money to be my fault for not working hard enough, when the reality is my career was interrupted to fit in around him and our child. Before children I earned more than him. I resent his criticism that my lower salary now is cramping his style. He expects me to be able to just suddenly pick up a higher paying job just like that.

This is where I think YABU. It may be impossible for your partner to just suddenly earn more money, and you could be putting pressure on him to do that when he simply does not have the ability to do so. If it's so easy to just earn more money, so you can have more disposable income, why don't you get a better paid job?

[quote GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing]**@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing except he wouldn’t meet the turnover threshold actually…

Yes I was going to say, it depends on whether he’s over the threshold.

I know there are lots of ways to get paid from a company as a director but it might be worth looking into. The company still has to pay its tax, of course, but I think the company’s expenses would be more predictable, including his wages.

I’d get some expert advice though, from an accountant or similar[/quote]
The only thing that would change is that he'd have to register with companies house (and re file every year) and submit his accounts annually. It's very sensible to use an accountant to do the accounts for you - mine only costs £400 a year.

The "company" expenses and his income will be managed by him, so there's no reason they would change at all from what he has now.

@CafeNervosa I know I’m being flippant but honestly I couldn’t bear it I couldn’t put up with it personally it’s a case of that’s what you need to bring into this house to contribute as an equal adult in this relationship, if it gets to the middle of the month and you haven’t while you’re going to need to pull your finger out aren’t you ?

I might be horrible but it would properly give me the ick I couldn’t sleep with a man who wasn’t pulling his weight.

My DH takes a small monthly salary of his tax allowance. He then draws money out once a year in dividends.

Yes that’s what I mean.

You should definitely both end up with same money left at end of month. But this should include saving for big things Xmas etc.

It is reasonable to want to know what he earns to make sure your finances are accurate.

Id do a monthly spreadsheet and have one day a month where you discuss finances and plan for the following month. His could be in lieu to make it more accurate.

Don't be distracted by the VAT thing - any business, whether he's a sole trader or a company, has to register for VAT when their turnover reaches £85,000 per year.

At a turnover level less than that though the tax benefits available to operating as a company, rather than a sole trader aren't massive, but he could mention it to his accountant and see what they say based on what they know about his actual finances.

It's a difficult one though - you've got to break through his barriers first before anyone can help him.

He probably needs some good business advice as well as personal finance advice.

@pepperpie he does have an accountant - I persuaded him to get one a few years ago and now he says he’d never not have one. And he’s incredibly meticulous about his accounting - too much so I think. I think he’s just so nervous about committing his money. I’ve tried to manoeuvre him into taking a monthly amount each month but it slips back when a month isn’t as good and he starts waiting for invoices to come in and trickles himself money.

I think he grew up witnessing hand to mouth paying for things.

"its not that simple"
yes it is. he has all the information about his business? Then he needs to give it to you. You are not stupid or a child and if he can understand it then you can. If there are things you don't understand then he needs to explain them including roughly how much he needs to set aside each year for tax and so on. The percentage of tax paid on earnings of any kind is not a secret...its the same with purchases to expand the business...does he not have any idea of how long it will take him to get his money back?
i do accept, i really do, that people can be anxious about money and not want to discuss it but in a partnership, any partnership, that is not an allowable luxury.