AIBU to want my OH to earn more money?

[CafeNervosa]

AIBU?

I’ve been with my partner for 8 years (not married). We have two children, 1 and 4. And a mortgage. He is a great dad (and I mean this - much more present, sensitive) and does at least 50% of the housework, if not more.

But, I’m getting increasingly angry and frustrated at our finances and how id like more money for holidays and to save!

I work 30 hours a week in a professional job that earns a £32k salary. He is self-employed in a creative role, and I’m never exactly sure how much he earns a month/year because “it’s not that simple” and it also fluctuates quite a bit… and he needs to keep money in the business for expenses, tax etc so his clear take home income is not that transparent. And it’s difficult for me to challenge big purchases when he says they’re needed for my business.

His parents have always been terrible at managing money and as such he has huge anxiety about talking about money.

When we bought our house i got him to agree to a joint account, and we agreed to work out how much our bills and reasonable other spending would be, and split it in proportion to our earnings. And keep the rest in our own accounts. I agreed to do this on his worst case scenario month. Basically I paid 2/3 and he paid 1/3.

Then he got frustrated that he had v little disposable income, and I agreed (in a v stressful emotional conversation) to splitting it so that we instead have the same amount of disposable income each left. So I now pay more than 2x what he pays - so I pay £1250 a month, and he pays £450.

This is never really enough to pay for incidental stuff though, like Xmas and birthdays and new shoes for the children, new furniture for the house etc so I normally pay for these out of my own leftover money.

I’m getting increasingly frustrated that:
a) I’ve trained to be in a seemingly well-paid job but can’t really afford luxuries or to save anything for a holiday or the future, because he doesn’t earn enough money. Am I unreasonable that I want him to be a better business person and earn more money, even though he’s very good at what he does?
b) that he won’t be really transparent with me about his financial situation - for example, I paid off his overdraft when I came into some money that I later used for our house deposit, and then we went on a uk holiday and he went substantially back into his overdraft on the basis that I’d said it would be nice to go for lunch and other things, without knowing that would be the outcome, because he can’t talk about it because it stresses him out so much. If I’d known we could have changed to cheaper plans.

Does anyone have any advice about how I can help us be more organised and transparent with our finances so we can be more in control - especially with someone who has an anxious history with money? I’m never quite sure if it’s that we don’t have enough money or if it feels out of my control?

@Birkenshock

He pays £450 towards all household costs A MONTH and that's it?! Yes, he needs to earn more. Even on minimum wage an adult should be able to contribute £1K a month towards housing/all bills/food/household costs, and still have a couple of hundred left for their own costs a month.

Agree with this! That's nothing. I don't thinknyou should have changed from the original arrangement - if he doesn't have much left over then that's a consequence of not working a well paid job! What does he think single people do,or couples where neither earn much?

Do not get married or have kids with this guy. What will you do if you're on maternity leave and trying to support 3 people on 450 quid!

[quote CafeNervosa]@SarahProblem if someone in a couple earns less but works the same hours, should they get less? Genuine question?[/quote]
I think if they both have the option to earn more but they have made the decision to not go for the higher paying wages because the don't want the extra responsibility etc, then why should they have the same fun money as someone who does go for that promotion?

My dh is my partner but I am not responsible for him financially. If he wants more money then he should get a better paid job and earn more. I don't see why I should have to fund his lack of drive and ambition - fwiw I put myself through a degree as a single parent and have now set up my own business to be more financially successful, dh is very content to stay in his minimum wage but hugely flexible job. We still pay all bills 50/50.

[quote CafeNervosa]@pepperpie he does have an accountant - I persuaded him to get one a few years ago and now he says he’d never not have one. And he’s incredibly meticulous about his accounting - too much so I think. I think he’s just so nervous about committing his money. I’ve tried to manoeuvre him into taking a monthly amount each month but it slips back when a month isn’t as good and he starts waiting for invoices to come in and trickles himself money.

I think he grew up witnessing hand to mouth paying for things.[/quote]
Then he should be able to sit down with you every fortnight, for example, and let you know what his income is so that you can plan accordingly as a team.

He should be open with you about his earnings. Okay, it's not a comfortable conversation, but I'm self employed with a lower and more flexible income than DP, but I am upfront about what I'm earning and we consider our money to be almost all for both people, apart from essentials like petrol and a bit of spending on hobbies. Everything that's left goes into the joint account, where I divvy it into savings and bills and spend it in the best way for the household, including holidays and the odd luxury item. It's.really.not fair on you and I say that from being more in your DP's shoes than you own. I'm aware of not equalling my partner's earnings, so I save mkney by shopping cheaply and keeping a Hawkeye on bills and comparisons constantly, so in a way by saving money it's a bit like earning more and just spending it!

You have split the bills in a way that presumes he is earning £10k a year. If indeed that's what he's bringing home from self employment, then he needs to acknowledge that his little venture didn't really get off the ground, and it's time to look for a proper job.

I'm self employed myself, working from home in quite a silly job, but I earn enough from it to fully pay my half for everything, and more often than not, I contribute a lot more than that.

£450 for 30 hours x 4 (ie February- a short month) is £3.75 an hour, less for the 11 other months of the year. I know you said he has some disposable income and puts some money back in the business plus he earns more than this... but not much from what you say, unless he’s squirrelling it away.

Even if he earns say £12k annually, that equates to around £7.69 an hour - I’m calculating 30 hours over 52 weeks btw. National minimum wage for those in his age group is £8.91 and going up to £9.50 gross in April. He would be paying a few hundred pounds annually on tax, less if he pays himself less and buys things for the ‘business’. Thus meaning he’s paying himself less than minimum wage.

As others have said, his business isn’t viable, it’s a hobby he should be pursuing in his free time. Additionally only working 30 hours a week to take home this amount is pretty insulting to you.

@Chocolatefreak I’m sensitive to this issue. I’ve been thinking of going full time because we’d be better off even with more childcare, but my little one is so young it feels important to spend time with her. In a couple of years it will be more comfortable for me to work more hours so I probably will.

[quote CafeNervosa]@pepperpie he does have an accountant - I persuaded him to get one a few years ago and now he says he’d never not have one. And he’s incredibly meticulous about his accounting - too much so I think. I think he’s just so nervous about committing his money. I’ve tried to manoeuvre him into taking a monthly amount each month but it slips back when a month isn’t as good and he starts waiting for invoices to come in and trickles himself money.

I think he grew up witnessing hand to mouth paying for things.[/quote]
But he should be able to get ahead and then smooth out payments.

I don't pay myself from my co account but there's currently £16k in there and £10k outstanding invoices, plus some uninvoiced work lined up.

If I wanted to pay myself the tax allowance, say £1k pm, I can do that from the £16k without worrying about the rest because it's coming. And if the whole £16k is used as pay, there no tax on the company as it's a genuine expense. (There would be NI to pay and tax if over £12,500)

Dividends are paid after corporation tax though, so that's different. Pension payments are company expenses so tax free too. What pension provision is he making?

@Oblomov22

"The tricky bit would be agreeing how much he needs to hold on to for his tax and expenses, where this is calculated at the end of the year."

Err no, it's not. You work it out monthly. You know what your income is for the month, what your expenses are. So you can work out your profit for each of the 12 months as you go along. So you then can work out how much you need to put away each month, for your tax return. Easy.

Not totally true. You can guess the tax but it’ll actually be based on the full year earnings so on a month by month based it is sometimes guesswork as to how much to put aside, and therefore what your “take home” is.

It’s not impossible to guess relatively close though, but it can be a bit fiddly to work out. Accountants will recommend an estimated % based on your expectations

A self employed person who doesn't even make minimum wage has a hobby not a business. He needs to get a part time job instead - he'd earn a lot more.

@Mummyoflittledragon I think he’d be quite ashamed if I laid this out… and probably knows it which is why he doesn’t like talking about it.

@SarahProblem

Surely he should get less disposable income if he earns left and you do equal housework. He's bringing less to the arrangement. Why should he get the same disposable income as you?

That never gets said in threads where the woman is the lower earner!

DH is in a similar position, but my income is a lot lower. We've talked about him getting a job, but while that would give us more money, it wouldn't work with my hours/ school pick up times or a chunk of the extra money would go on paying for after school club which would have knock on effects as DS has problems going to school and I think after school club would exacerbate this.

I think it’s fair enough to ask him to contribute more financially as your household is struggling. But I say that when the sexes are reversed too. Why should anyone who is not financially contributing get a free ride when the other party isn’t happy?

@Sunshinedreaming2022 My dh is my partner but I am not responsible for him financially.

This statement is a really helpful mantra.

@Clymene

A self employed person who doesn't even make minimum wage has a hobby not a business. He needs to get a part time job instead - he'd earn a lot more.

I agree with this. He can be airy fairy in his spare time. He has a family and responsibilities that are priorities. You are doing your part and he really needs to step up. Agree with pp about not getting married. It is a JOKE that he only pays in 450 a month.

[quote CafeNervosa]@Mummyoflittledragon I think he’d be quite ashamed if I laid this out… and probably knows it which is why he doesn’t like talking about it.[/quote]
Ok but as adults, especially if parents, we have to grow up and have uncomfortable conversations because that's just real life. You're pandering to his refusal to face reality and in the process increasing your own stress levels, sense of responsibility and mental load.

Why do you think that's fair on you? Or productive? Or sustainable?

You can't have a healthy relationship with someone if you can't discuss sex and money with them. Those two subjects require clear communication and genuine listening from both parties.

You can guess the tax but it’ll actually be based on the full year earnings so on a month by month based it is sometimes guesswork as to how much to put aside, and therefore what your “take home” is.

Yeah, let's be honest, it doesn't sound much like he's going to go into the 40% band, does it!?

So, assuming he makes over £12,500 he can pay himself a twelfth of that each month, set aside 10% for NI (it's not as much as that abd it's not on all of it) and pay himself the rest that month minus 30% to be on the safe side.

If he's not making more than £12,500pa he needs to get a sensible job. And he needs to stop "investing" in his business and just consolidate where he is and put in the hours to make some money.

I haven't read all of the answers, but what jumps out at me from your opening post is that it's not about equality (as you are happy to pay more into the bills etc) - but that you feel there is an unfair burden being placed on your "discretionary" money since you reduced what DH is required to put into the bills.

So in order to have equal spending money, you pay almost 3 times what he does on the household bills, but then you ALSO pay for discretionary family spends on things like birthdays/Christmas, holidays, etc, and also NON-discretionary family spends on things like DCs shoes. So I am surmising from this that things like schoolbooks, extracurricular activities etc are also non-discretionary but paid out of your pocket rather than the joint account - that the JA is seen more as covering the mortgage/rent, household utility bills and groceries only, rather than any other household expenses.

And does DH contribute anything to savings for emergencies, ongoing maintenance, having funds for replacing car/washing machine etc when needed?

Or is it a case that you pay 73.5% towards the "joint household expenses" account, and of your remaining "discretionary" money for entertainment - you spend a fair chunk of that on other household expenses. Whereas DH is paying 26.5% towards the "household expenses", not taking into account the other expenses involved in running a house and having a family, and his "discretionary" money just disappears.

There is an element of fairness needed if you are the higher earner, which is fine in terms of inputting to the joint account.

But there is also fairness required in what you can actually spend YOUR remaining money on.

The solution may need to be a greater amount of spending coming from the household account, and DH putting more into it to cover what's needed, so that you both still have an equal amount of discretionary money but that it is ACTUALLY discretionary for both of you. AFTER ALL of the household expenses have been paid. Including some money going to savings towards household needs in the future (eg. boiler repair, replacement tumble dryer, updated car etc, as well as family holidays).

It's not about parity - everything being 50/50 - you accept that as the higher earner.

But it is about equality and fairness at the same time - that you should each have a fair amount of money to do what you want with.

What a find tricky is that when we talk about earnings he says that we’re ok. And we are. We have a nice house and the children have what they need. I’d just like a bit more money to save and go on adventures with!

There's a couple of thinks that don't seem quite right
Personal allowance before you get taxed is £12,570 which is just over a 1k per month - if his wage is about £450 of this then he shouldn't be taxed , if he's putting all other earnings back into the business as running costs or expansion they they will be tax deductible to the business and not count as personal earnings
It might be good to check all this with the accountant , ( or get a new accountant )might also be a good thing to learn about business management , lots of small businesses fold due to lack of business skills rather than effort and expertise in the chosen field

I'm self employed with variable income and partner was higher earning employed. Used to pay an agreed % a month, then at the end of the financial year, used to look at profit and do a lump sum to partner if needed. We worked out % based on paying total household bills and expenditure and being left with equal disposable income.

Would it be possible for him to reduce his SE and have a part time minimum wage job (or more) as well?

Seems like after x years the SE just isn't earning enough to be financially viable.

Has he looked into getting help to grow his business? Universities and county councils offer various funded things to help SMEs.

@BiddyPop amazing post. You’re really astute.

I think I need to go through my spending and work out what I’m buying that isn’t really my own fun spending, but rather household stuff. And maybe he has some too. And we increase our total monthly value into the joint account. And I try to stick to only using the joint account for this, and not stray. If we need something else and there isn’t enough money, then we need to adjust our shared amount.