Exceptions for Ukraine refugees

[myear]

I would genuinely be happy if someone can explain to me how IABU so I can feel less upset!

I am pleased for the Ukrainians that the EU is making exceptions for them so that anyone can come in, can get jobs straight away, no need for a visa for 3 years etc, but AIBU to feel bitter about my own treatment as an asylum seeker many many years ago? I can’t help but wonder why these exceptions are made for people fleeing the Ukraine, but not for people who fled my country to survive ethnic cleansing and what the UN found was war crimes against my people.

We had to lie to get a visa to Europe, lie to then get into the country when we were taken away for questioning at the border, apply for asylum 6 times as it kept being rejected, and only got approved on the basis that we had stayed too long to be kicked out, couldn’t work for a long time, and no exceptions were made to reduce bureaucratic hurdles. To be blunt, I question whether exceptions are being made for the Ukrainian refugees because they are white and people from my country are black.

My white DH, who is from the European country that took me in, is upset that the UK is not waiving visa requirements for Ukrainians and only allowing those with family in, rather than anyone seeking refuge. But, he doesn’t really see a problem with how I was treated by his country either, for reasons such as:

1. We fled a civil war whereas Ukraine is being attacked by another country. Countries need to deal with their own problems (but incidentally thinks it was right to intervene in NI / ROI - again white).

1. It’s not his country’s duty to help my country as they didn’t cause the war (but neither did his country cause the Ukraine war yet they are making exceptions for them).

1. Ukraine is geographically closer, although not a direct neighbour (so?)

1. Why am I not upset at the people who caused war in my country (but how is that relevant to the differing treatment I’m now seeing?)

1. Why am I not upset at neighbouring countries, they didn’t help either (again, how is that relevant?)

1. No exceptions were made for Kosovo, Bosnia etc so the Ukraine exceptions are not based on race (can't argue against that!)

I am very grateful that we were able to find safety in Europe and have a great life, but this seems to be upsetting me more than I can rationally explain.

@Cablefable

This, except that many genuine asylum seekers have to lie to get into a safe country. I can’t understand why you needed to lie after that as you could claim asylum as soon as you were in first safe country

Ah bless you.

Yes just for a moment think about this. You are fleeing a war in the UK, you have close family or friends in say Poland, you speak Polish ( but don't have a polish passport) . You flee to France where you know absolutely no one and don't speak the language. You have to stay in France with your children . No help, no money, no support . You are traumatised by what has happened to you but will never be allowed to join the family and friends in Poland., your life and that of your children has been shattered and restarting your life will be ten times harder in France than in Poland Whilst this may be ' fair ' in your eyes it certainly is very hard to live with if it happens to you

I live in the South east and we have large numbers of refugees being held a couple of streets away from me while their applications are processed. Hundreds of boats have arrived from France landing on nearby beaches over the last few months with more arriving every day. My area has always been racist but these boats, and the men staying in my local area has really brought out the worst in people who were falling over themselves to protest about all these young men of colour living among us. It got very nasty at one point. Yet these same racists aren't protesting about helping white refugees and sending trucks full of clothes to the ukraine. It's racism, pure and simple.

Funnily enough I've experienced more aggression and fear as a result of actions from white British born men than i ever have from my new neighbours.

[quote Hshuznw]@Bonheurdupasse Considering the underlying tones of your post, you should be ashamed of yourself. You’re not worth even responding to.[/quote]
@Hshuznw you are not able to reply to my argument:

Women and children fleeing Ukraine are much less likely to cause a Cologne mass incident than the mostly young men from other regions that did cause it.

Please note i wasn't expecting aggression from the asylum seekers, that's badly worded. Just that that's one of the reasons the racists gave to try and block them from being housed here - that they were a threat to women and local women would be scared of them.

@Cablefable wrong again, I can guarantee that neighbouring countries would have taken them in. Even Syria itself (using as a recent example) took refugees. The biggest refugee housing countries are Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan.
However space + infrastructure is finite. Of course they were unhappy when nobpdy cared to give them money.
It would be better to fund neighbouring states. Saudi Arabia has room for half a million at least, so do Qatar, UAE?

A PP has stated that Europe’s constantly blamed for not taking refugees while other countries shit on them equally. I somewhat agree.

For countries with a colonial past like Britain, France etc and who are still the cause of wars probably theres some blame.
But countries like Poland, Romania etc. While it’s bad that they’re racist, I can’t blame them for not wanting refugees! They’ve spent most of history being bullied by the rest of Europe. It has nothing to do with them.

@Porcupineintherough

There is always war, there is always murder, there is always oppression and famine, drought and suffering. There are always people whose lives would be better if they could move from where they are to somewhere else.

With that as the backdrop either you believe countries should be allowed to limit who enters them or you think they should open their doors to anyone in need. I cant think of any country anywhere that does the latter.

Exactly. People already here shouldn’t be turned away of course but then how are you going to stop more from coming? Logical question, just answer.

Also would Europeans be happily welcomed in other countries? I think not. Especially not in the regions from which there are many refugees. Even I wouldn’t be welcome. lol

@Bonheurdupasse Ok, let’s talk about what you’re getting at.

Please break down your point more clearly. The men from other regions? What regions? Which men?

YANBU

I'd like to think this is a new way of dealing with refugees but we'll see what happens next time they're majority black or brown that are fleeing a war

Border control, refugee management everything involved in crossing borders is inherently racist. I'm 100% a foreigner but I'm white, I have a British passport as well as my birth country passport. When I go through border controls here I never really attract much attention. My OH who is 100% British, never lived anywhere else, but brown skinned OTOH attracts much more attention, if we travel together we're often stopped for additional questioning

The fact that "just letting them in" is something that seems to have widespread popular support tells you it's racist attitudes behind it rather than just a shift in govt policy.

They are white with blue eyes , not my words

Because we are better now. I'm sorry you were badly treated, but 2 wrongs don't make a right

We most certainly aren't better now. Look at the Facebook pages from South Eastern towns where we get boats from Calais landing. Lots of people are very much still of the opinion that the navy/coastguard/RNLI should sink the boats instead of helping them to land safely. Even with women and children aboard. So some people still don't care about women and children because they're not white.

I get it, as a white person it's hard to acknowledge that inside you, you do place more value on white lives. But that's for you to deal with yourself. Not to try and shut down the OPs experiences by telling her it's not the time or the place. Have you gone into any other threads about fluffy stuff and told them its not the time or the place?

@CarrieHughes, by your logic, brown and black people should not care one bit about what’s happening to fellow human beings in Ukraine? Because it has nothing to do with them and their historical past?

I do care deeply what’s happening in Ukraine even if we do not share a historical past. They are human beings, like me and on that basis alone, I care.

The regions which seem to mostly send young male refugees to Europe.

Va women and children from Ukraine which are less likely to cause a Cologne mass attack than the young men who did do that.

You may say that my answer is facetious but you are refusing to answer my basic point : women and children vs mostly young men. (See the poster mentioning the young men from Calais as more recent example.)

It's not facetious it's just kinda racist

@Calmitdownkermit

Because we are better now. I'm sorry you were badly treated, but 2 wrongs don't make a right

We most certainly aren't better now. Look at the Facebook pages from South Eastern towns where we get boats from Calais landing. Lots of people are very much still of the opinion that the navy/coastguard/RNLI should sink the boats instead of helping them to land safely. Even with women and children aboard. So some people still don't care about women and children because they're not white.

I get it, as a white person it's hard to acknowledge that inside you, you do place more value on white lives. But that's for you to deal with yourself. Not to try and shut down the OPs experiences by telling her it's not the time or the place. Have you gone into any other threads about fluffy stuff and told them its not the time or the place?

Tone policing is a tactic used by racists (even if they don't realise their own unconscious bias) to shut down any whiff that racism and prejudice exists and that people who are not white deal with it, amongst other micro aggressions on a daily basis.

Like I said, I am really grateful to be here and just to be clear, I came into the UK legally and am living here legally. I am grateful that the UK helped to try and bring some justice for my people in the international courts for the war crimes that were committed.

Asylum law states that you can only claim asylum once you are in the country, so in our case we had to lie that we are coming on holiday, and once in, we then claimed asylum. You can't claim asylum in the UK, while being in another country, wait for it to be approved, and then come here.

The European country we came to, we had to lie about our reasons for wanting asylum because it was deemed that our country was not unsafe enough to have to flee. That's despite up to 20% of people speaking my language having been killed for their race (there are multiple races in my country), bombs falling, people disappearing etc. This was pre internet but the ethnic cleansing and war crimes were big for a long time in Western news. So we lied to say were personally involved in peaceful protests for our freedom and that we were officially “wanted” by the government for it, in the hope that they would let us stay (as it was well known that “wanted” people would just “disappear”). And still we were denied. We only got to stay because they didn’t deport us quickly enough back into a war zone and as a result of the length of time we had stayed in the country, the law did not allow them to deport us. If you were in fear for your life and you could only get to safety by lying, wouldn’t you lie too?

I was a child so don’t remember all the details, but we couldn’t go to a neighbouring country as they didn’t want to get involved in helping us either, as they didn’t want to be seen as being against our government, for fear of repercussions. Of course it’s only the humane thing to do for neighbours to help each other and it’s right that Poland, Hungary etc help the Ukrainians. I am really pleased that the Ukrainians are being so welcomed by the whole of the EU, most of which are not neighbouring countries eg France, Germany etc.

But this brings back memories of my own painful past many many years ago, and I think it’s possible for my happiness to the world’s response to Ukraine to coexist with sadness about my own experience. I wish it was a case of lessons having been learnt about the past but hearing even my own DH justify the difference in treatment makes me think it’s not that. And I totally get not being able to take everyone in, and yet the EU is giving unlimited access to anyone in the Ukraine who wants to come, so I question why they are treated so differently.

I was a child. My mum was a young woman in her 20s. What made us less “worthy” of protection?

@Bonheurdupasse

The regions which seem to mostly send young male refugees to Europe.

Va women and children from Ukraine which are less likely to cause a Cologne mass attack than the young men who did do that.

You may say that my answer is facetious but you are refusing to answer my basic point : women and children vs mostly young men. (See the poster mentioning the young men from Calais as more recent example.)

Please explain which regions “send” young male refugees to Europe. Use your words. You happily refer to Ukraine but which regions in particular are you referring to?

Which regions men are you generalising here?

And why are you comparing men from one region against women from another?

If you have blond hair and blue eyes you'll probably be fine tbh.

@OneTC

It's not facetious it's just kinda racist

Kinda is understatement!

@OneTC

It's not facetious it's just kinda racist

How is “women and children vs mostly young men” racist? Unless some races have a greater preponderance of young men and less of women and children amongst them? In which case it would be a dog whistle type thing? While the point is that by definition people will be more open to women and children fleeing than mostly young men, as the former are less likely to cause something like that Cologne mass attack that the latter did?

How is “women and children vs mostly young men” racist?

I meant your not too subtle issues with Islam you disingenuous article

@Hshuznw
I am comparing them because my point is that people will be more open to women and children fleeing than to mostly young men as the latter more like to cause something like that Cologne mass attack that they did.

@myear

Like I said, I am really grateful to be here and just to be clear, I came into the UK legally and am living here legally. I am grateful that the UK helped to try and bring some justice for my people in the international courts for the war crimes that were committed.

Asylum law states that you can only claim asylum once you are in the country, so in our case we had to lie that we are coming on holiday, and once in, we then claimed asylum. You can't claim asylum in the UK, while being in another country, wait for it to be approved, and then come here.

The European country we came to, we had to lie about our reasons for wanting asylum because it was deemed that our country was not unsafe enough to have to flee. That's despite up to 20% of people speaking my language having been killed for their race (there are multiple races in my country), bombs falling, people disappearing etc. This was pre internet but the ethnic cleansing and war crimes were big for a long time in Western news. So we lied to say were personally involved in peaceful protests for our freedom and that we were officially “wanted” by the government for it, in the hope that they would let us stay (as it was well known that “wanted” people would just “disappear”). And still we were denied. We only got to stay because they didn’t deport us quickly enough back into a war zone and as a result of the length of time we had stayed in the country, the law did not allow them to deport us. If you were in fear for your life and you could only get to safety by lying, wouldn’t you lie too?

I was a child so don’t remember all the details, but we couldn’t go to a neighbouring country as they didn’t want to get involved in helping us either, as they didn’t want to be seen as being against our government, for fear of repercussions. Of course it’s only the humane thing to do for neighbours to help each other and it’s right that Poland, Hungary etc help the Ukrainians. I am really pleased that the Ukrainians are being so welcomed by the whole of the EU, most of which are not neighbouring countries eg France, Germany etc.

But this brings back memories of my own painful past many many years ago, and I think it’s possible for my happiness to the world’s response to Ukraine to coexist with sadness about my own experience. I wish it was a case of lessons having been learnt about the past but hearing even my own DH justify the difference in treatment makes me think it’s not that. And I totally get not being able to take everyone in, and yet the EU is giving unlimited access to anyone in the Ukraine who wants to come, so I question why they are treated so differently.

I was a child. My mum was a young woman in her 20s. What made us less “worthy” of protection?

YANBU.

I'm sorry this happened to you. You are allowed to express your feelings as you may have been triggered by recent events. Hope you are okay x

You do realise that refugees from non-European countries are not only made of men. There are women too. Do they not matter because they are not white women and children? Do you feel the same sympathy for these women and children who are not white? Who face unimaginable hardship and dangers to make their way to safety? Who face untold discrimination and racism as they journey through to safety?

I'd say its a combinations of reasons.Ukraines geographical proximity is one.Surely Chinese would welcome their neighbour Asians over let's say Lithuanians?
The fact that its women and children not young men.People have a hard time being sympathetic to those they believe should have stayed behind to fight for their country.
Also a while ago there were plenty of issues (for example sex assaults on Europe by migrants ) caused by difference in culture etc.It is easier to accept people we believe to be similar to us.Surely it would make sense to go to country with similar culture and religion.
Not even talking that there are many who are caught lying (age etc ) and therefore there is lack of trust for the reason they seek to stay (economic? ) and their validity (do they fit all the criteria ).

If you have blond hair and blue eyes you'll probably be fine tbh

🤔