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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Exceptions for Ukraine refugees

410 replies

myear · 03/03/2022 00:24

I would genuinely be happy if someone can explain to me how IABU so I can feel less upset!

I am pleased for the Ukrainians that the EU is making exceptions for them so that anyone can come in, can get jobs straight away, no need for a visa for 3 years etc, but AIBU to feel bitter about my own treatment as an asylum seeker many many years ago? I can’t help but wonder why these exceptions are made for people fleeing the Ukraine, but not for people who fled my country to survive ethnic cleansing and what the UN found was war crimes against my people.

We had to lie to get a visa to Europe, lie to then get into the country when we were taken away for questioning at the border, apply for asylum 6 times as it kept being rejected, and only got approved on the basis that we had stayed too long to be kicked out, couldn’t work for a long time, and no exceptions were made to reduce bureaucratic hurdles. To be blunt, I question whether exceptions are being made for the Ukrainian refugees because they are white and people from my country are black.

My white DH, who is from the European country that took me in, is upset that the UK is not waiving visa requirements for Ukrainians and only allowing those with family in, rather than anyone seeking refuge. But, he doesn’t really see a problem with how I was treated by his country either, for reasons such as:

  1. We fled a civil war whereas Ukraine is being attacked by another country. Countries need to deal with their own problems (but incidentally thinks it was right to intervene in NI / ROI - again white).
  1. It’s not his country’s duty to help my country as they didn’t cause the war (but neither did his country cause the Ukraine war yet they are making exceptions for them).
  1. Ukraine is geographically closer, although not a direct neighbour (so?)
  1. Why am I not upset at the people who caused war in my country (but how is that relevant to the differing treatment I’m now seeing?)
  1. Why am I not upset at neighbouring countries, they didn’t help either (again, how is that relevant?)
  1. No exceptions were made for Kosovo, Bosnia etc so the Ukraine exceptions are not based on race (can't argue against that!)

I am very grateful that we were able to find safety in Europe and have a great life, but this seems to be upsetting me more than I can rationally explain.

OP posts:
gerispringer · 03/03/2022 07:26

Of course lives matter, no one is saying that , but is taking in every refugee from wherever in the world sustainable? Surely supporting developing countries, more government foreign aid, donating to charities is as important.

Brefugee · 03/03/2022 07:28

It is, of course, entirely believable that colour plays a part in this. But if you look at any of the "coming over here claiming benefits" convos you will see time and time again that people are complaining about what they see as "economic migrants" who are often young men. And what they think is that when these young men say "fleeing a war" they think "why aren't they staying and fighting?"

What we are seeing here is that men between 18-60 (i think?) are not allowed, by the Ukrainian authorities, to leave the country, and that women and children are the only ones allowed to leave. To the racists that is entirely good and proper.

It is not my personal view. And this situation plays into racist hands because at some point there will be some kind of end to this. And then we'll be back to "bloody foreigners coming over here" and they will be almost certainly non-white.

Proximity always plays a part. And i hope that since OP got to their safe country, attitudes and rules have changed to make the world a more welcoming and compassionate place.

Bonheurdupasse · 03/03/2022 07:31

@Ladylornax12

Because these are women and children. People are more suspicious of young men trying to get in and their motives.
This. Amazingly how in other conflicts most of the asylum seekers that were seen were young men. Ukrainian women and children are less likely to cause a Cologne “incident”.
Housinghelp321 · 03/03/2022 07:31

@TheLovleyChebbyMcGee

Because we are better now. I'm sorry you were badly treated, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.
No we’re not. It was very recently that there were people saying they wanted to sink boats from Syria (as in within past couple of years). No way have we learned lessons from how we have treated refugees in the past.
Cablefable · 03/03/2022 07:32

I will caveat my posts with of course absolutely it's amazing what countries are doing and I think it's the right thing, just that I can see why there's some feelings evoked around it as to why others weren't treated the same who have been through similar.

Why2why · 03/03/2022 07:33

@gerispringer

Of course lives matter, no one is saying that , but is taking in every refugee from wherever in the world sustainable? Surely supporting developing countries, more government foreign aid, donating to charities is as important.
Always a “but”.

In any case, you are now talking about something different. How many refugees, asylum seekers we can accommodate. Whatever that number is, the OP is talking about the demographic makeup and ease of access and sympathy.

raspberryjamchicken · 03/03/2022 07:39

I think European countries (including the UK) should take more refugees from all conflict zones. However, I think because member states such as Poland and Hungary are on the border of Ukraine and therefore must expect vast numbers of refugees, something had to be done to expedite their arrival, in the same way that countries such as Lebanon and Jordan took the vast majority of refugees from Syria.

LakieLady · 03/03/2022 07:40

I think the UK govt only eased requirements for Ukrainian refugees because they were shamed into it, tbh. The first announcement, which excluded refugees with even close relatives here, was brutal and widely mocked.

And the invasion is an act of war, not an internal matter contained within one country. I don't agree with it, but I understand why governments these things differently.

Sinuhe · 03/03/2022 07:42

Another racist thread aiming to win the race to the bottom.

Allelbowsandtoes · 03/03/2022 07:50

@TheLovleyChebbyMcGee

Because we are better now. I'm sorry you were badly treated, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Are we, though? I think OP is well within their rights to feel upset. I'm in the UK and although it's heartening to see the solidarity for Ukraine, it is interesting that people aren't equally up.in arms about the annexation of Palestinian land by the Israelis, for example. I can absolutely see why OP has pointed out the race aspect.
Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 07:52

Because Ukrainians are white Christians.

That’s all there is to it.

People are going on about women and children, but that sympathy doesn’t apply to women and children from Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. It is (and always has been) so so hard for any woman or child from such a country to claim asylum.

It also has nothing to do with lessons learnt. No lessons have been learnt. It’s just a different county this time.

And people going on about how insensitive this is, it is very very very possible to feel terrible for what is happening in Ukraine, whilst also being disappointed in the double standards in the response by the western media and governments.

Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 07:54

@Bonheurdupasse What the fuck do you mean about causing a cologne incident?

Ylvamoon · 03/03/2022 07:56

We had to lie to get a visa to Europe, lie to then get into the country when we were taken away for questioning at the border ...
@myear - you needed to lie in order to get into your country of choice? Enough said.

Overthebow · 03/03/2022 07:56

I’m sorry for what you’ve been through op but I don’t believe the situations are the same. Ukraine is in Europe, they are our neighbors. We can’t take in unlimited refugees from all over the world but of course we are going to help our neighbors as much as we can. I would hope the countries close to your home would have helped you too, but if they didn’t that’s not really our responsibility.

GooGooMorning · 03/03/2022 07:58

And people going on about how insensitive this is, it is very very very possible to feel terrible for what is happening in Ukraine, whilst also being disappointed in the double standards in the response by the western media and governments.

I disagree the timing of this thread is in very poor taste, unbelievably self-centred.

Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 07:58

@Overthebow

I’m sorry for what you’ve been through op but I don’t believe the situations are the same. Ukraine is in Europe, they are our neighbors. We can’t take in unlimited refugees from all over the world but of course we are going to help our neighbors as much as we can. I would hope the countries close to your home would have helped you too, but if they didn’t that’s not really our responsibility.
What about the countries where Britain is directly responsible for the conflict? Is Britain not responsible for helping displaced citizens? Or is it not Britain’s responsibility because those countries are further away?
HRTQueen · 03/03/2022 08:00

Ukrainians are seen by many in Europe as one of us

Outside Europe (and not white) not one of us

So no YANBU

I think we have progressed but not as much as we like to think we have

Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 08:00

@GooGooMorning

And people going on about how insensitive this is, it is very very very possible to feel terrible for what is happening in Ukraine, whilst also being disappointed in the double standards in the response by the western media and governments.

I disagree the timing of this thread is in very poor taste, unbelievably self-centred.

Yes, ok sure. Let’s continue to ignore racism.

Highly doubt the response would be the same here if we were talking about sexism.

GooGooMorning · 03/03/2022 08:03

Yes, ok sure. Let’s continue to ignore racism. You go and focus on racism if you wish.

Bunnycat101 · 03/03/2022 08:04

There will be multiple reasons but given it was possible for women and children to board a train straight into bordering countries, it was a crossing that while no doubt was hard for many reasons, wasn’t as hard as crossing water etc. I can’t imagine how difficult it would have been to make the decision to stay or go especially for those with small children.

Why2why · 03/03/2022 08:04

@GooGooMorning

And people going on about how insensitive this is, it is very very very possible to feel terrible for what is happening in Ukraine, whilst also being disappointed in the double standards in the response by the western media and governments.

I disagree the timing of this thread is in very poor taste, unbelievably self-centred.

I believe you are unbelievably self-centred too and I strongly believe this is the most appropriate time to raise it because the double standards are on full display.

What is the OP to do? Hide her feelings? Make herself and the voice of people like her secondary? An inappropriate inconvenience? She is speaking for all those who are like her. Not just herself. She did not create the double standards. She is confronted by it.

It’s people who think like you that are creating the double standards and inflicting pain on people like the OP who have to witness it. You then have the audacity to tell her she should shut up and put up?

Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 08:06

@GooGooMorning

Yes, ok sure. Let’s continue to ignore racism. You go and focus on racism if you wish.
And you can carry on living in denial because the reality is too uncomfortable for you.
Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 08:08

It’s people who think like you that are creating the double standards and inflicting pain on people like the OP who have to witness it. You then have the audacity to tell her she should shut up and put up?

THIS!!!

Bonheurdupasse · 03/03/2022 08:10

[quote Hshuznw]@Bonheurdupasse What the fuck do you mean about causing a cologne incident?[/quote]
@Hshuznw I would call it the Cologne mass attack but the media obscured it enough (for fear of being seen as racist if they told the truth) that people don’t know about it.

What I mean is that the Ukrainian women and children are much less likely to cause something like that Cologne mass attack than the mostly young men from other regions who did cause it.

Woodnine · 03/03/2022 08:12

@myear you are not being unreasonable. It is entirely understandable that you notice and are hurt by the double standards you are being asked to bear witness to. All lives cannot matter, until Black Lives Matter - unfortunately there will be many on this thread that simply don’t understand the hypocrisy they are defending.