Exceptions for Ukraine refugees

[myear]

I would genuinely be happy if someone can explain to me how IABU so I can feel less upset!

I am pleased for the Ukrainians that the EU is making exceptions for them so that anyone can come in, can get jobs straight away, no need for a visa for 3 years etc, but AIBU to feel bitter about my own treatment as an asylum seeker many many years ago? I can’t help but wonder why these exceptions are made for people fleeing the Ukraine, but not for people who fled my country to survive ethnic cleansing and what the UN found was war crimes against my people.

We had to lie to get a visa to Europe, lie to then get into the country when we were taken away for questioning at the border, apply for asylum 6 times as it kept being rejected, and only got approved on the basis that we had stayed too long to be kicked out, couldn’t work for a long time, and no exceptions were made to reduce bureaucratic hurdles. To be blunt, I question whether exceptions are being made for the Ukrainian refugees because they are white and people from my country are black.

My white DH, who is from the European country that took me in, is upset that the UK is not waiving visa requirements for Ukrainians and only allowing those with family in, rather than anyone seeking refuge. But, he doesn’t really see a problem with how I was treated by his country either, for reasons such as:

1. We fled a civil war whereas Ukraine is being attacked by another country. Countries need to deal with their own problems (but incidentally thinks it was right to intervene in NI / ROI - again white).

1. It’s not his country’s duty to help my country as they didn’t cause the war (but neither did his country cause the Ukraine war yet they are making exceptions for them).

1. Ukraine is geographically closer, although not a direct neighbour (so?)

1. Why am I not upset at the people who caused war in my country (but how is that relevant to the differing treatment I’m now seeing?)

1. Why am I not upset at neighbouring countries, they didn’t help either (again, how is that relevant?)

1. No exceptions were made for Kosovo, Bosnia etc so the Ukraine exceptions are not based on race (can't argue against that!)

I am very grateful that we were able to find safety in Europe and have a great life, but this seems to be upsetting me more than I can rationally explain.

I have no idea what you have been through, this is not criticism of you but some points to think about. And I will look at your questions / comments in more detail.

When ever there is a war civil or otherwise countries near the conflict always take more refugees, there are arguments that it is better to fund those countries rather than encourage people to move further.

This is particularly true when people are wanting to return home after the conflict.

Refugees who can come to Britain and then be 'looked after' by families and organisations are easier to accommodate, and the UK has a lot of Ukrainian people and organisations. So a family may be willing to offer accommodation and food to a relative or a friend of a relative but not a stranger.

Someone arriving with nothing and no contacts is a more difficult person to help, and yes I know they are also in more need.

At the moment any Ukrainian can be seen to be in need of safety, that's not the case with every refugee it can be difficult to tell who is in genuine need eg in Uganda (and some other countries) it is illegal to be gay so a gay person may have need of refuge where their sibling isn't at risk but how do you tell if someone is gay or not?

It feels like it is predominantly about who is attacking and what Europe thinks about the war. I don't think it's about the Ukrainian people themselves.

Europe condemns the war in the strongest terms, therefore we want to help the civilians affected. Citizens in Europe are also given a lot of news coverage and therefore can see and understand the effects of the war. Furthermore, it is easier to comprehend the effects when the initial lifestyle is so similar to your own.

All of this is to say that it's understandable, but wrong, that people from peaceful European countries have different reactions to this war compared to other wars of recent times.

Your husband likely can't really comprehend what happened in your country. He is seeking to logically justify something that isn't actually logical.

YANBU.

[quote Nahnanananahna]@Greeceisthebest

What about the U.K. opening doors to people from Hong Kong? They’re not white. It’s because we have a shared history and connection with them. We feel we owe them greater help.

We should have given Hong Kongers citizenship in 1997 instead of just dumping them with no protection and running. If they were white we would have done. This is a small step to correcting that.[/quote]
We did.
To many many people.
I was part of the team seconded to HK to fast track it.
In the years prior to 1997 any BDTC (the British Citizenship held by HK citizens) could come to the UK and then apply for full BC status. BDTCs had fast-tracked paths to BC status since 1983.
Everyone knew that 1997 was going to happen and the Home Office had systems in place for years to allow anybody who wanted to the opportunity to do that.
We weren't talking about a "backward"nation where people didn't know what was coming. We're talking about what was one of the wealthiest little corners of the world at the time.

Any HK citizen not coming to the UK was entitled to BNO (British National Overseas) status, and since 1997 further possibilities for those who didn't take up any of the possibilities before 1997 have been put in place. No other people in fairness have been given as many possibilities to not lose their British status.
In a flip of the coin- not this time because they are white, but because they are generally wealthy and educated. And of course, because they were British to start with, allbeit without ROA at the time.

Because these are women and children. People are more suspicious of young men trying to get in and their motives.

Yanbu op. I do think we should do all we can for Ukrainians but I don't see how we can be so hard nosed about other refugees. I think there are a lot of factors here (white Ukrainians, Putin bring seen universally as the enemy, lots of media coverage, etc) but essentially it is unfair. People will tie themselves in knots trying to justify it because they want to feel like good, generous people but we are not generous people. This story appeals to us...luckily for Ukrainians. Others haven't been so lucky to attract our fancy.

Lessons have been learned. It's not fair but that's the way it is. I think social media and the instant-ness of news nowadays plays a big part. If the Cyprus conflict had come about in times of social media then Turkey would not have been allowed to illegally occupy half the island and steal peoples homes.

Would it make you feel better if Ukranian women and children were refused entry to EU countries and had nowhere safe to go?

People can't help how they feel - I think to me what this is is you need some counselling to process your past. This is not about them its about you. I hope you get the help you need.

If I had to flee my London home, I’d first try neighbouring countries - Ireland, Scotland, France , Italy , all places where I have relatives. I wouldn’t consider Africa or South America . Most refugees want to go to familiar or nearby places. You didn’t choose that route for your own reasons, instead chose to come to a place that you consider racist. Yes, racism exists universally but we are work in progress on that front I I would suggest, but do two wrongs make a right? Should we deny entry to Ukrainians.?

Because its a white, European country.

Wow YAB v v v U.

What a badly timed post, so badly timed that it's hard to believe.

@Greeceisthebest

What about the U.K. opening doors to people from Hong Kong? They’re not white. It’s because we have a shared history and connection with them. We feel we owe them greater help.

Poland and other Eastern EU countries are doing more to help Ukraine refugees than the rest of the world because they’re neighbours.

I think that makes sense, that you will go further to help those fleeing countries where there are stronger connections.

You should apply that logic to the Commonwealth countries who fought and died in wars for the UK. Whose wealth and people were plundered by the UK. Who are expected to worship the Queen? Is there no connection there to help them in their times of need?

@GooGooMorning

Wow YAB v v v U.

What a badly timed post, so badly timed that it's hard to believe.

I don't know, can't you imagine how jarring it is to see the world value the lives of others much more highly than those of your country? I think that must be hard to deal with, although of course albeit should be happy others aren't facing the same challenges re getting to safety.

YABVU.
Ukrainians are simply doing what refugees should - fleeing to the nearest safe country!
Do you think Saudi Arabia, China etc would welcome boatloads of Ukrainians with open arms?
I don’t deny that racism exists (I’m a brown immigrant myself). As an individual I can understand people doing the best for their families, and we think Europe is some kind of human rights haven. Also some wars are caused by Great Powers so fair enough.
However for an unrelated civil war lots of people arriving, traumatised, different culture etc etc a lot of work is required. Why should Europe be encouraging them to come here instead of giving money to ‘nearer’ countries?

It’s a genuine logical question.

Why didn’t you flee to a nearer country?

@GooGooMorning

Wow YAB v v v U.

What a badly timed post, so badly timed that it's hard to believe.

I don't agree.

We are told there's no racism in the UK (not like there is in the US and that we should be grateful), we are told there's no need for Black Lives Matter awareness here, but we see time and time again examples of white lives holding more value.

OP is allowed to hold 2 emotional spaces, I know I do. My heart breaks for the people of Ukraine, the mothers who must be frightened and the children who maybe aren't getting the food they need, people leaving everything behind, I cannot imagine the terror.

However I am also saddened as when there have been media conversations about black/Asian/ethnic minority refugees there has never been a big public outcry to let more in. There has been portrayal of them as 'men trying to get across','lazy benefit seekers', 'system scammers' and worst of all an exodus of 'cockroaches'. Even at some of the worst points such as seeing a child drowned, many people still blamed them for trying to come across. So yes, it is a valid feeling and not ill timed for those of us who have the ability to feel more than one thing at once

@Cablefable bit disingenuous to say that ‘the world’ values X perspective more highly. You don’t know what the world thinks. You only what the English speaking media thinks(sorry for assumption). And to you most powerful countries speak English therefore their coverage is ‘international’.
Newspapers in several languages I speak cover lots of news read by billions of people, never mentioned in ‘Western’ media.there are even ‘English language’ versions. Everyone in the regions know it. However because Europe/US don’t know it, the ‘whole world’ doesn’t know? My country doesn’t recognise Israel by the way, my passport bans us from going there.

It’s illogical for the entire world to be aware of everything, at every single moment in time. People should know what’s happening in their own backyards.
The way to help is to funnel resources to ‘developing’ countries so they can rise. Not have ‘Europe/Us’ as the great arbitrator and solution to everything.

@GooGooMorning

Wow YAB v v v U.

What a badly timed post, so badly timed that it's hard to believe.

I honestly think this too

These people need our help right now. And because they are getting what they need and we support it, we are now racist?! You can fuck off with that thought, you honestly can!

What's happened in the past is not relevant.

@GalactatingGoddess wrong. There was certainly a big push for Afghanistan refugees!
People falling over themselves to help.
But then again the ones coming were members of the British consulate, English speaking, and we ‘owed’ them.
The comments about a child drowning were disgusting yes, and frankly Britain and whoever else prolongée the war in Syria owes them to. A lot of people don’t realise that had we not interfered it wouldn’t have been as drawn out as it was.

But it’s not illogical to acknowledge that having refugees is a an effort that requires resources. Thus people aren’t rushing to acquire refugees that put long term pressure on housing etc as well need support for a long time.

@GooGooMorning, you are making the OP’s point even more reasonable.

When would be an appropriate time to talk about her experience and to highlight the unfairness, and the difference in how we care about the lives of those who are not white? Or those who are not “similar” to us?

Human beings have the capability and capacity to care and discuss different issues at the same time. We can support Ukrainians as well as condemn unfair treatment of others. It’s not necessary to deprioritise some lives until a more appropriate time. The OP and people like the OP matters. Their lives matter too and should not be something to care about at an appropriate time.

You lied to get into a country and wonder why the red carpet wasn't rolled out? Hmmm.
I am glad you're safe and i am always shocked when people fleeing conflict aren't allowed in then checked for visa applications. Even civil war, although i do think attacking a sovereign country is something else entirely. And with Putin you have to stand up to him or he'll do it again and again. Where is next? The baltic countries?

This stood out though (given you fled a civil war i find it a bit weird) We fled a civil war whereas Ukraine is being attacked by another country. Countries need to deal with their own problems (but incidentally thinks it was right to intervene in NI / ROI - again white)

Nothing to do with the colour, but entirely to do with the fact that an organisation (not a nation) was committing terrorist acts (bottom line it is WAY more complicated than that) on within a soverign nation (UK) what do you expect a government to do? Nothing or something? We can argue until the cows come home about NI but that is the bottom line, it wasn't a civil war it was (supposed to be) a police action (that got completely out of hand and suffered hugely from mission creep)

In addition: Nato and other nations (including Russia) got Ukraine to give up their nuclear capabilities in return for protecting them. They are calling that help in.

We are talking about a European country. It is part of our continent here, of course we are giving help/visa free entry (for now).

The fact that the UK is turning away other refugees is a different point and not a bargaining chip here.

When did you come to the UK OP?

In Europe we have had many east europeans coming to the UK to work and some stay and live, for the past 10 years. I imagine that makes them seem more like us and less foreign.
There is also an impression that they the Ukrainians will return to Ukraine (they seem so patriotic) when they can.
Lastly I think we are more resigned to immigration as it seems to be impossible to stop it (more crossed the channel than ever this last year).

[quote CarrieHughes]@Cablefable bit disingenuous to say that ‘the world’ values X perspective more highly. You don’t know what the world thinks. You only what the English speaking media thinks(sorry for assumption). And to you most powerful countries speak English therefore their coverage is ‘international’.
Newspapers in several languages I speak cover lots of news read by billions of people, never mentioned in ‘Western’ media.there are even ‘English language’ versions. Everyone in the regions know it. However because Europe/US don’t know it, the ‘whole world’ doesn’t know? My country doesn’t recognise Israel by the way, my passport bans us from going there.

It’s illogical for the entire world to be aware of everything, at every single moment in time. People should know what’s happening in their own backyards.
The way to help is to funnel resources to ‘developing’ countries so they can rise. Not have ‘Europe/Us’ as the great arbitrator and solution to everything.[/quote]
Where were the countries helping OP then? Did any? Guess its likely a no. Okay not the world then, but a large number of countries many who have waived all red tape to allow reguees to flow freely in.

100m refugees have been displaced in the last few days, they are close neighbours (how dare you say 'so what' OP, don't you care for your neighbours? ) people who were living in relative peace are being murdered by Putin who, as it happens, is holding the civilised world to ransom by threatening to annihilate all Western countries. It's a hugely charged situation and a humanitarian criss of epic proportions. OP, who has been granted asylum and who is presumably writing this from the safety of her own warm home, had nothing better to do than start a thread about how racist Europe is?

I find this thread and its timing very hard to believe, but then again .