Exceptions for Ukraine refugees

[myear]

I would genuinely be happy if someone can explain to me how IABU so I can feel less upset!

I am pleased for the Ukrainians that the EU is making exceptions for them so that anyone can come in, can get jobs straight away, no need for a visa for 3 years etc, but AIBU to feel bitter about my own treatment as an asylum seeker many many years ago? I can’t help but wonder why these exceptions are made for people fleeing the Ukraine, but not for people who fled my country to survive ethnic cleansing and what the UN found was war crimes against my people.

We had to lie to get a visa to Europe, lie to then get into the country when we were taken away for questioning at the border, apply for asylum 6 times as it kept being rejected, and only got approved on the basis that we had stayed too long to be kicked out, couldn’t work for a long time, and no exceptions were made to reduce bureaucratic hurdles. To be blunt, I question whether exceptions are being made for the Ukrainian refugees because they are white and people from my country are black.

My white DH, who is from the European country that took me in, is upset that the UK is not waiving visa requirements for Ukrainians and only allowing those with family in, rather than anyone seeking refuge. But, he doesn’t really see a problem with how I was treated by his country either, for reasons such as:

1. We fled a civil war whereas Ukraine is being attacked by another country. Countries need to deal with their own problems (but incidentally thinks it was right to intervene in NI / ROI - again white).

1. It’s not his country’s duty to help my country as they didn’t cause the war (but neither did his country cause the Ukraine war yet they are making exceptions for them).

1. Ukraine is geographically closer, although not a direct neighbour (so?)

1. Why am I not upset at the people who caused war in my country (but how is that relevant to the differing treatment I’m now seeing?)

1. Why am I not upset at neighbouring countries, they didn’t help either (again, how is that relevant?)

1. No exceptions were made for Kosovo, Bosnia etc so the Ukraine exceptions are not based on race (can't argue against that!)

I am very grateful that we were able to find safety in Europe and have a great life, but this seems to be upsetting me more than I can rationally explain.

just scepticism at the fact that OP freely admits to lying but somehow it doesn't matter

The OP was a small child when her family fled. Why are you stating she's lying? You're not really covering yourself in glory here.

@roarfeckingroarr

Ukraine is a neighbour with a similar way of life, culture, women as equals etc to us - and Russia attacking Ukraine is Russia attacking the West. I'm so glad we're opening up for Ukrainian refugees.

lol

@Jamboree01
I know when they were. I was referring to other comments.
You seem absolutely determined to misunderstand me.

The British created the conflict in the North of Ireland.

Educate yourself on the reason why there is a war in Ireland

These are the sort of comments I was referring to Jamboree01.

As you know, some of the reasons why there is trouble in NI go back much further than the partition of Ireland. It wasn't me who brought this timescale up.

^The British created the conflict in the North of Ireland.

Educate yourself on the reason why there is a war in Ireland^

How is this even related to this post?? Make your own aibu.

Yes, I know and I'm sorry, I'm way off the point now Sometimeswinning.

I queried a point earlier that the OP made re NI and ROI (it was point 1 of her opening post). The OP hasn't responded to my query but I've since been accused on this thread of not knowing the history of my own country. I was upset by this and was responding to those who questioned me. I should have shut up ages ago I know, but it's infuriating to be accused of not understanding a situation simply because you disagree with someone. Not the place though, I agree.

I'm very sorry, OP, for derailing. To answer your question again, NI is part of the UK - although at least one pp doesn't accept this - that's what makes the difference in the situations you describe.

@BessieFinknottle

The British created the conflict in the North of Ireland.

Educate yourself on the reason why there is a war in Ireland

These are the sort of comments I was referring to Jamboree01.

As you know, some of the reasons why there is trouble in NI go back much further than the partition of Ireland. It wasn't me who brought this timescale up.

The British first invaded over 800 years ago. I was referring to recent events and you most definitely did bring the timescale up.

You are the one who is determined to misunderstand.

@Sometimeswinning

^The British created the conflict in the North of Ireland.

Educate yourself on the reason why there is a war in Ireland^

How is this even related to this post?? Make your own aibu.

The OP used Ireland as a tool of comparison when it is non comparable. That was my point. The rest is just addressing other misconceptions that people have brought into the thread. I will address them. I don’t need your permission to do so. Thank you.

@BessieFinknottle

Yes, I know and I'm sorry, I'm way off the point now Sometimeswinning.

I queried a point earlier that the OP made re NI and ROI (it was point 1 of her opening post). The OP hasn't responded to my query but I've since been accused on this thread of not knowing the history of my own country. I was upset by this and was responding to those who questioned me. I should have shut up ages ago I know, but it's infuriating to be accused of not understanding a situation simply because you disagree with someone. Not the place though, I agree.

I'm very sorry, OP, for derailing. To answer your question again, NI is part of the UK - although at least one pp doesn't accept this - that's what makes the difference in the situations you describe.

The difference is that the British didn’t intervene- they invaded, occupied, murdered and brutalised.

Ah @BessieFinknottle I see your point now! Sorry for my comment. Yours is relevant. You've not derailed the thread at all.

Sorry @BessieFinknottle for not responding. It started to feel a bit heated and I didn't want to upset any more people by responding particularly on a matter that I don't know as much about as other people, and which would have detracted from my point anyway. I also started losing track of who asked what!

I realise I am not coming across well and didn't want to get people's backs up any further. On this thread, I have been told to admit I hate the Irish, despite saying absolutely nothing to suggest that. I have been told I don’t like the Ukrainians, despite me opening my home to a refugee. I have been questioned whether I am one of Putin’s cyber attackers trying to create negativity for the Ukraine, despite saying nothing negative about Ukraine. I have been told that it was wrong for us to tell lies in order to escape a war, even if telling the truth will lead to the death of an innocent mother and her children. I have been told that the system was correct to turn us away as victims of genocide and war crime, with our house bombed to ashes. Incidentally, the UK Home Office guidelines at the time was that asylum seekers from my country have a credible claim. The country we went to was much closer than the UK and had a different view.

But people have also kindly explained to me why I didn't get the same treatment as the Ukrainians, which has helped me to understand things a bit better. Sometimes when you are consumed by your own pain, it's hard to see things clearly, and AIBU has certainly helped with that!

I'm sorry for those who posted on this thread with their own stories and hope you have a peaceful life now.

@myear Your posts come across very sincere and I hope you’re ok. I know how painful this subject is.

Unfortunately there are too many people who don’t want to believe that racism exists, and that there is a reason for whatever is happening. These are the people who will try and bring you down by discrediting you and what you say. This is exactly what has happened on this thread. And I’m sorry if it has caused you any upset.

@myear

Sorry *@BessieFinknottle* for not responding. It started to feel a bit heated and I didn't want to upset any more people by responding particularly on a matter that I don't know as much about as other people, and which would have detracted from my point anyway. I also started losing track of who asked what!

I realise I am not coming across well and didn't want to get people's backs up any further. On this thread, I have been told to admit I hate the Irish, despite saying absolutely nothing to suggest that. I have been told I don’t like the Ukrainians, despite me opening my home to a refugee. I have been questioned whether I am one of Putin’s cyber attackers trying to create negativity for the Ukraine, despite saying nothing negative about Ukraine. I have been told that it was wrong for us to tell lies in order to escape a war, even if telling the truth will lead to the death of an innocent mother and her children. I have been told that the system was correct to turn us away as victims of genocide and war crime, with our house bombed to ashes. Incidentally, the UK Home Office guidelines at the time was that asylum seekers from my country have a credible claim. The country we went to was much closer than the UK and had a different view.

But people have also kindly explained to me why I didn't get the same treatment as the Ukrainians, which has helped me to understand things a bit better. Sometimes when you are consumed by your own pain, it's hard to see things clearly, and AIBU has certainly helped with that!

I'm sorry for those who posted on this thread with their own stories and hope you have a peaceful life now.

As one of the posters who questioned your point on Ireland, I have to say I didn’t see a comment telling you to admit that you hate the Irish. I may have missed that. The way you used your point is hurtful to myself and many, many others for a number of reason but I fully accept you may not have understood that.

My life is not at peace no as we are still fighting for truth and justice for two of my own family members- and are supporting thousands of others to do the same.

My door will always be open to anyone no matter where they come from. I would be hesitant if it were a British soldier I can tell you. I wish you well.

@myear I've come to this thread late and have just read your.opening post.
To me what you are saying about feeling upset at the situation you had to go through in the past compared to that which the Ukrainian refugees will go through is actually quite rational.
I would feel just as upset.

I really really hate to say this but a close relative said to me that seeing Ukrainian civilians getting hurt etc has really upset them. Well, I said, but didn't you feel the same about the Afghans & Syrians?
No, they said, the difference is that the Ukrainians look 'like us' (ie theyre White and dress in western clothes). They should be allowed to come here. What about the other refugees, I asked. Not them, just the Ukrainians, they can settle in easily & do the jobs that need filling they said.

This relative doesn't see themselves as racist mainly because they've had relationships with three Black men.

But they obviously are more racist than I had realised.

I think many British and White Europeans think the same way as my relative sadly regards refugees and where they originate from.

I'm glad you have found a safe home in the UK but I'm sorry it was such a difficult process for you to go through OP.

[quote SommerTen]@myear I've come to this thread late and have just read your.opening post.
To me what you are saying about feeling upset at the situation you had to go through in the past compared to that which the Ukrainian refugees will go through is actually quite rational.
I would feel just as upset.

I really really hate to say this but a close relative said to me that seeing Ukrainian civilians getting hurt etc has really upset them. Well, I said, but didn't you feel the same about the Afghans & Syrians?
No, they said, the difference is that the Ukrainians look 'like us' (ie theyre White and dress in western clothes). They should be allowed to come here. What about the other refugees, I asked. Not them, just the Ukrainians, they can settle in easily & do the jobs that need filling they said.

This relative doesn't see themselves as racist mainly because they've had relationships with three Black men.

But they obviously are more racist than I had realised.

I think many British and White Europeans think the same way as my relative sadly regards refugees and where they originate from.

I'm glad you have found a safe home in the UK but I'm sorry it was such a difficult process for you to go through OP.[/quote]
Things like this don’t happen in Europe, it’s reserved for developing nations in Africa and the Middle East.

As though people in those nations are deserving of it. As though it wasn’t Europe that has two world wars in the last 110 years, was embroiled in the Cold War and invaded other countries causing immense loss and suffering, including loss on Europe’s side.

Thanks Sometimeswinning.

Thank you too OP. Hope you're okay.

Exactly. Ww2 is still within living memory.. I looked after an elderly man the other day who actually had an 80 yr old gunshot wound he got in Europe during Ww2.

@myear

Sorry *@BessieFinknottle* for not responding. It started to feel a bit heated and I didn't want to upset any more people by responding particularly on a matter that I don't know as much about as other people, and which would have detracted from my point anyway. I also started losing track of who asked what!

I realise I am not coming across well and didn't want to get people's backs up any further. On this thread, I have been told to admit I hate the Irish, despite saying absolutely nothing to suggest that. I have been told I don’t like the Ukrainians, despite me opening my home to a refugee. I have been questioned whether I am one of Putin’s cyber attackers trying to create negativity for the Ukraine, despite saying nothing negative about Ukraine. I have been told that it was wrong for us to tell lies in order to escape a war, even if telling the truth will lead to the death of an innocent mother and her children. I have been told that the system was correct to turn us away as victims of genocide and war crime, with our house bombed to ashes. Incidentally, the UK Home Office guidelines at the time was that asylum seekers from my country have a credible claim. The country we went to was much closer than the UK and had a different view.

But people have also kindly explained to me why I didn't get the same treatment as the Ukrainians, which has helped me to understand things a bit better. Sometimes when you are consumed by your own pain, it's hard to see things clearly, and AIBU has certainly helped with that!

I'm sorry for those who posted on this thread with their own stories and hope you have a peaceful life now.

My parents both came here as refugees from the Nazis - many pf my relatives were murdered because no country would take in more than a small number of Jews. Israel didn't yet exist.

I'm very glad that the Ukrainians fleeing now are treated better than Jews were then.

Yes, it is racist that Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe, Syrians, and the many other non-white, non-Christian refugees were refused entry to the UK or treated badly. But that doesn't mean we should treat Ukrainians the same as they were treated.

It means we should use the West's new empathy for refugees to make sure than all future refugees, including non-white and non-Christian ones, get the same kind of treatment the Ukrainians have got, or preferably better.

@fenestrina

My parents both came here as refugees from the Nazis - many pf my relatives were murdered because no country would take in more than a small number of Jews. Israel didn't yet exist.

I'm very glad that the Ukrainians fleeing now are treated better than Jews were then.

Yes, it is racist that Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe, Syrians, and the many other non-white, non-Christian refugees were refused entry to the UK or treated badly. But that doesn't mean we should treat Ukrainians the same as they were treated.

It means we should use the West's new empathy for refugees to make sure than all future refugees, including non-white and non-Christian ones, get the same kind of treatment the Ukrainians have got, or preferably better.

Hopefully better treatment than some of the white Christians in the north of Ireland received too.

There have been parts of the UK with a large Ukrainian diaspora since Ww2. They are know, and have settling into the local community. Refugees from Iraq/ afghanistan are a more recent phemonena.

Worth listening to this. I’m glad people are creating awareness of this. It’s too blatant and silence is not an option

fb.watch/buEFKdhnBU/

And this www.independent.co.uk/world/ukraine-racism-refugees-russia-war-un-b2025771.html?amp

I’ve seen several people on this thread say that refugees must claim asylum in the first country they reach. That is most definitely NOT the case under international law (as interpreted by both international and domestic courts).

There is an arrangement within the EU for returning refugees to the country where they first claimed asylum (usually the point of entry to the EU), but that no longer applies to us as we’ve left the EU. It also doesn’t apply to Ukrainian refugees (the EU has put in place a separate and much more generous arrangement).

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-myopic-focus-on-racism-at-the-polish-ukrainian-border