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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Exceptions for Ukraine refugees

410 replies

myear · 03/03/2022 00:24

I would genuinely be happy if someone can explain to me how IABU so I can feel less upset!

I am pleased for the Ukrainians that the EU is making exceptions for them so that anyone can come in, can get jobs straight away, no need for a visa for 3 years etc, but AIBU to feel bitter about my own treatment as an asylum seeker many many years ago? I can’t help but wonder why these exceptions are made for people fleeing the Ukraine, but not for people who fled my country to survive ethnic cleansing and what the UN found was war crimes against my people.

We had to lie to get a visa to Europe, lie to then get into the country when we were taken away for questioning at the border, apply for asylum 6 times as it kept being rejected, and only got approved on the basis that we had stayed too long to be kicked out, couldn’t work for a long time, and no exceptions were made to reduce bureaucratic hurdles. To be blunt, I question whether exceptions are being made for the Ukrainian refugees because they are white and people from my country are black.

My white DH, who is from the European country that took me in, is upset that the UK is not waiving visa requirements for Ukrainians and only allowing those with family in, rather than anyone seeking refuge. But, he doesn’t really see a problem with how I was treated by his country either, for reasons such as:

  1. We fled a civil war whereas Ukraine is being attacked by another country. Countries need to deal with their own problems (but incidentally thinks it was right to intervene in NI / ROI - again white).
  1. It’s not his country’s duty to help my country as they didn’t cause the war (but neither did his country cause the Ukraine war yet they are making exceptions for them).
  1. Ukraine is geographically closer, although not a direct neighbour (so?)
  1. Why am I not upset at the people who caused war in my country (but how is that relevant to the differing treatment I’m now seeing?)
  1. Why am I not upset at neighbouring countries, they didn’t help either (again, how is that relevant?)
  1. No exceptions were made for Kosovo, Bosnia etc so the Ukraine exceptions are not based on race (can't argue against that!)

I am very grateful that we were able to find safety in Europe and have a great life, but this seems to be upsetting me more than I can rationally explain.

OP posts:
GooGooMorning · 03/03/2022 08:12

Women and children in Ukraine are bing murdered right now, the op is sitting safely at home because she has been granted asylum by a country she says she finds racist, bemoaning the fact that the Ukrainian people who are fighting a lots battle and are fleeing from murder are being supported.

OP, which is your home country and which country was it that you fled to from your home country and who did you lie to in order to cross borders?

Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 08:12

@Bonheurdupasse Considering the underlying tones of your post, you should be ashamed of yourself. You’re not worth even responding to.

Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 08:13

[quote Hshuznw]@Bonheurdupasse Considering the underlying tones of your post, you should be ashamed of yourself. You’re not worth even responding to.[/quote]
It’s not worth…Freudian slip there.

Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 08:14

@GooGooMorning

Women and children in Ukraine are bing murdered right now, the op is sitting safely at home because she has been granted asylum by a country she says she finds racist, bemoaning the fact that the Ukrainian people who are fighting a lots battle and are fleeing from murder are being supported.

OP, which is your home country and which country was it that you fled to from your home country and who did you lie to in order to cross borders?

What about women and children from other countries that have been murdered in their own homes and own land? Why did the UK not step up and allow them to claim asylum? Why did the UK make it really hard for them to claim asylum, accusing many of lying when they were explaining why they had to flee?
Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 08:16

The reality is, as with any suggestion that the UK is racist, people find that idea absolutely offensive, and resort to either shutting down the conversation with insults or coming up with weak arguments as to why racism isn’t the answer, as seen by many PPs on this thread.

HRTQueen · 03/03/2022 08:17

What lengths some people go to to argue for the right to be racist and others not to call it out

Racism should always be acknowledged regardless of the situation

Motorina · 03/03/2022 08:19

I am absolutely confident that racism informs our foreign policy decisions, decisions about border security and immigration, both on an individual level and on a country by country level.

I am also confident that we are reacting the way we are to Ukraine because these are white Europeans who look and live like us. Another role of the dice, and it could be us. Plus it taps into the ongoing national emotions aroudn WW2 and the holocaust.

However, OP, you lied repeatedly to get in. You had six attempts to argue that you should be entitled to stay, and all were unsuccessful. Yet you are here. You haven't shared where you fled from or why, and, whilst that's understandable, it means there's no context to your comments. But, on the face of it, it's not hard to see why you were treated differently from those who have fled an invasion and have not lied to gain asylum.

Kendodd · 03/03/2022 08:20

I see this refugee crisis as different to Afghanistan and Syria, in that I don't think people even need asylum, they just need temporary shelter for their women, children and elderly. Ukrainian men aren't even allowed to leave Ukraine. Afghan and Syrian refugees needed permanent resettlement.

GooGooMorning · 03/03/2022 08:22

I give up @Hshuznw, you carry on, you have your priorities and I have mine. I am off to help sort donations at school. My dc have both said they want to donate some of their pocket money to charities supporting Ukrainian refuges, which is so lovely. Keep whatabouting if it makes you happy.

Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 08:25

However, OP, you lied repeatedly to get in. You had six attempts to argue that you should be entitled to stay, and all were unsuccessful. Yet you are here. You haven't shared where you fled from or why, and, whilst that's understandable, it means there's no context to your comments. But, on the face of it, it's not hard to see why you were treated differently from those who have fled an invasion and have not lied to gain asylum

I’m not at all defending lying to get in, but telling the truth doesn’t help massively either. I have worked with several women fleeing war, death threats, etc in countries devastated by Britain’s actions, and they have still had their claims for asylum refused. This is why it is shocking for those with direct experience of this…the reaction to Ukrainians is very different to women from other countries.

Bagadverts · 03/03/2022 08:25

@Motorina

I am absolutely confident that racism informs our foreign policy decisions, decisions about border security and immigration, both on an individual level and on a country by country level.

I am also confident that we are reacting the way we are to Ukraine because these are white Europeans who look and live like us. Another role of the dice, and it could be us. Plus it taps into the ongoing national emotions aroudn WW2 and the holocaust.

However, OP, you lied repeatedly to get in. You had six attempts to argue that you should be entitled to stay, and all were unsuccessful. Yet you are here. You haven't shared where you fled from or why, and, whilst that's understandable, it means there's no context to your comments. But, on the face of it, it's not hard to see why you were treated differently from those who have fled an invasion and have not lied to gain asylum.

This, except that many genuine asylum seekers have to lie to get into a safe country. I can’t understand why you needed to lie after that as you could claim asylum as soon as you were in first safe country.
Hshuznw · 03/03/2022 08:27

@GooGooMorning

I give up *@Hshuznw*, you carry on, you have your priorities and I have mine. I am off to help sort donations at school. My dc have both said they want to donate some of their pocket money to charities supporting Ukrainian refuges, which is so lovely. Keep whatabouting if it makes you happy.
What whataboutery? This debate is about the response to Ukrainian refugees compared to other refugees. How can you compare responses if you don’t talk about other refugees. If you are struggling to come up with a logical response to what I’m saying, then say that, instead of going on about whataboutery and your charity to Ukrainians.

For the record, I have also been sorting donations for Ukrainians. As I said, it is possible to want to help Ukrainians whilst also being disappointed with the lack of empathy for those from other backgrounds.

DaisyWaldron · 03/03/2022 08:27

I think our country's attitude to asylum seekers is dreadful and something of which to be deeply ashamed. But I can also see how if you do hold the belief that people should only seek asylum in nearby countries, that you would then think that it's up to European countries to take in all the people escaping from a neighbouring country which has been invaded. So in the case of Ukraine, you get the people who always think we should take in more refugees and the people who think that people should seek asylum in nearby countries agreeing that it's Europe's responsibility to offer asylum to people fleeing Ukraine.

bumblingbovine49 · 03/03/2022 08:29

Op. I haven't read most of this thread as I think it would incense me too much. One or two of the posts were enough to start me being angry. I will start by saying I am white and have never been a refugee so can't know how you feel but I am so sorry for what you had to go through to get here and so very sorry for the awful things that happened in your country. The trauma fro those events must be very hard to live with.
I am so sorry you had to lie to get here and that you ( probably very accurately) believed that telling the truth would mean you were refused help. I am almost as certain as I can be that I would have done the same if I was frightened and desperate enough and believed lying would save my life. Anyone who says differently is fooling themselves and incapable of empathy. I am also very glad it worked out in the end for you .

As to why we are treating Ukrainian refugees differently, it is because we are scared at the moment, it is fear that we could find ourselves in a similar situation and more people are easily able to picture ourselves in the same situation

The reason for this is a combination of:
-the refugees being white ( so yes racism,) ; --the country involved being nearer to us;

-our culturally still strong association with and group memory of WW2 caused by a mad dictator;

  • belief that refugees from other poorer countries are somehow using the wars and violence they are fleeing as an excuse and that they want to come for economic reasons as well whereas the Ukrainians are less likely to do this
-the potential ( albeit small) of nuclear war.

I don't think it has anything to do with us having learned or being better people . In fact quite a few people ( those who are less able to imagine this war will affect us much and hence therefore probably less concerned by it) who don't want to treat the Ukrainian refugees any differently that they do other refugees

As

Cablefable · 03/03/2022 08:29

This, except that many genuine asylum seekers have to lie to get into a safe country. I can’t understand why you needed to lie after that as you could claim asylum as soon as you were in first safe country

Ah bless you.

Motorina · 03/03/2022 08:30

@Hshuznw agreed. Which is why without knowing anything of the OP's story - where she came from, why, which country she is now in - it's super hard to make any sort of judgement about whether or not she was treated unfairly.

Whereas for the Ukrainians the position is abundantly clear.

Sometimeswinning · 03/03/2022 08:31

Surely this whole post is whataboutary (Stupid, ridiculous word, however its already been mentioned!). The op could easily come in and put their question as aibu without using Ukraine. People are focusing on this at the moment, they are concerned a mad man with access to missiles and bombs is doing whatever he pleases! Plus the op hasn't really given much detail away about themselves either!

lemongreentea · 03/03/2022 08:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

abcdefggrant · 03/03/2022 08:34

@HRTQueen

What lengths some people go to to argue for the right to be racist and others not to call it out

Racism should always be acknowledged regardless of the situation

This...
lonelydad2022 · 03/03/2022 08:34

@blueberryporridge

Because they are white and their way of life looks quite similar to ours?
They are indeed white but their way of life is completely different.
lemongreentea · 03/03/2022 08:35

@deragod

And you will still deny your own xenophobia...

Poland alredy had special measures for Ukrainians, there is long and complicated history. That's all. Many of Ukrainians living in Eastern Ukraine alredy had 'polish card'

this!
bumblingbovine49 · 03/03/2022 08:39

@CheeseTown

Yanbu op. I do think we should do all we can for Ukrainians but I don't see how we can be so hard nosed about other refugees. I think there are a lot of factors here (white Ukrainians, Putin bring seen universally as the enemy, lots of media coverage, etc) but essentially it is unfair. People will tie themselves in knots trying to justify it because they want to feel like good, generous people but we are not generous people. This story appeals to us...luckily for Ukrainians. Others haven't been so lucky to attract our fancy.
Exactly
Canyouhearmehello · 03/03/2022 08:43

OP why did you have to lie to get into the Country. I don't understand your frustration. IMO nobody should be turned away from seeking asylum and as pp have stated times have now thankfully changed for the better and it is easier for asylum seekers today.

RoastedFerret · 03/03/2022 08:45

@HRTQueen

Ukrainians are seen by many in Europe as one of us

Outside Europe (and not white) not one of us

So no YANBU

I think we have progressed but not as much as we like to think we have

But do people in Asia not see their neighbouring countries as 'one of us', people in Africa not see their neighbouring countries as 'one of us' etc? Why should we(europeans) feel guilty for seeing our neighbours as 'one of us' just because they happen to be white?

And I'm not even sure what the OP is talking about when she talk about the conflict in NI. Who is she talking about when she talks about 'intervening'? The UK? Who NI is a part of? The EU? Who NI was a part of? Is she talking about people from NI and ROI claiming asylum because that didn't happen? Did her country of origin step in and help out in NI and she is pissed they didn't help back?

I absolutely agree that the asylum process needs to be more streamlined. It shouldn't drag on for years, there shouldn't be 6 appeals there is no need, the case should be heard, 1 appeal then you either fit the criteria for asylum or not. It is wrong to having people living in limbo for years.

Porcupineintherough · 03/03/2022 08:45

There is always war, there is always murder, there is always oppression and famine, drought and suffering. There are always people whose lives would be better if they could move from where they are to somewhere else.

With that as the backdrop either you believe countries should be allowed to limit who enters them or you think they should open their doors to anyone in need. I cant think of any country anywhere that does the latter.