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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who’s in the wrong? Unsociable or sociable?

541 replies

ShittyFingers · 02/03/2022 08:26

Person A is pretty unsociable. She gets on the bus and looks forward to time alone to sit and think/daydream during her 1 hour journey.

Person B is sociable and looks forward the her 1 hour journey to chat.

Bus has lots of empty seats. Person B decides to sit next to Person A and try to strike up conversation. Person A is polite but makes it obvious she doesn’t want to talk. Person B is a little offended and thinks Person A is a miserable sod. After a few more attempts to make light conversation, person A moves seats. Person B now very upset and this plays on her mind all day.

Let’s say Covid isn’t a thing.

Who is unreasonable?

YABU - person A could have made more effort, it wouldn’t have killed her to chat

YANBU - person Bs wish to socialise doesn’t trump person A’s wish to not socialise

OP posts:
Michellecanfuckoff · 02/03/2022 18:00

Michelle can fuck off
Indeed Grin

Grinling · 02/03/2022 18:06

@WisherWood

It simply looks like spite directed at people who don't struggle socially.

This thread is starting to remind me of the expression that if all you've ever known is privilege, equality starts to look like oppression. From the OP Person A is pretty unsociable. She gets on the bus and looks forward to time alone to sit and think/daydream during her 1 hour journey. That's the OP herself describing her own behaviour as 'unsociable'. That's how ingrained the prejudice against introverts is, that something that is in fact perfectly normal and valid becomes 'anti-social'.

As an introvert, I have no problem making friends. I'm happy socialising. I'm not socially awkward. In fact, friends will push me forward as the person who doesn't mind going first, speaking first, entering a public space they're worried about being in. In your own attempts to stand up for extroverts, you imply that introverts all 'struggle socially'. See how embedded your opinions are?

And yet I do not, as an introvert, struggle socially. That's not what the definition of an introvert is. To recharge my batteries I require down time away from people. That's it. I'll give public addresses to hundreds of people. I'll go to parties. I'll chair meetings. And then I want to go home and not chat to people. That's not 'struggling socially'. So if you're going to get your arse in your hand about the way extroverts are being described on MN, maybe have a closer look at your own prejudices first.

What we need to recognise more is the extent to which needing to be around people to recharge is normalised, whereas needing downtime is stigmatised. Needing downtime does not make you socially awkward, or inept. If you struggle, it's because the world is organised for temperaments other than yours, not because there's something innately wrong with you.

I've never suggested introverts struggle socially I agree that this is an inaccurate view, based on a misunderstanding of introversion and extroversion. But it is this view which predominates on here the people who, by and large, self-identify as introverts, explicitly say that that they are socially awkward/reluctant/struggle with friendships, or alternatively, don't have any friends by choice. This is not MY prejudice, or my misunderstanding, it is the prejudice and misunderstanding of the majority of Mners who identify as introverts.

Like you, I am a social, socially-confident introvert. Like you, I give lectures to hundreds of people at a time, chair meetings, have lots of friends who make my life a better place. You would have no idea whether I was an extrovert or an introvert from my social presentation, The difference, as you say, is in the way you recharge. I need significant solitude to balance.

I don't think that needing downtime to recharge is at all stigmatised, actually. I think the issue is that people, including those who believe themselves to be introverts, rightly or wrongly, misunderstand what introversion is, and confuse it with social awkwardness. That misunderstanding is frequently seen on here, on a forum that seems to have an unusually large number of people who struggle with friendships, regard the school run with fear and horror, can't function in group situations or one-on-ones, or who claim they don't want friendships at all, because they're 'too much drama'. Those people identify as introverts, but they are likely to be a mixture.

My point in relation to the encounter between A and B on the bus is that we have no idea whether Person B is an introvert or an extrovert. There are introverts who will nervously babble in this kind of situation (my mother is one), or introverts who are thoroughly 'recharged' from a period of solitude, and who feel like being sociable, regardless of the situation, just as there are extroverts who will be unable to understand someone's desire for solitude. All we know about B is that she did not read social cues.

And my general point is that we should not be stigmatising either introverts or extroverts. Poor social skills and tactlessness are a different matter.

phoenixrosehere · 02/03/2022 18:12

I think Person B is in the wrong. It took some balls for you to get up and move and I can see why this upset them but who on earth thinks it's acceptable to sit next to a person you barely know and try to engage them when they clearly don't want it? I tend to get on the bus with the same few people but apart from "no, you get on first" or a rare comment about it being freezing we don't speak to each other.

Agree.

For some of us, the only moment of undisturbed silence we get until the late evening is on the bus. I often sit in the very back of the bus in the corner with my headphones on staring out the window so no one talks to me. I do help people if asked directions but other than that I am not looking for a conversation.

2DogsOnMySofa · 02/03/2022 18:18

Neither is wrong, B just picked the wrong person to chat to. Some people like to talk (B), some like to, not talk (A). I can be both A and B some weeks

2pinkginsplease · 02/03/2022 18:21

Person B needs to learn the signs that not everyone wants to chat. Some people do like their own company and like to sit and read a book or day dream rather than chat.

It’s like my staff room, I enjoy the peace and quiet for an hour and get irritated when people try and chat. If that happens I go and sit in the car,

hauntedbillybass · 02/03/2022 18:29

Why do people all suggest that introverts are either spiteful or envious???

As OP has stated this is not a one time thing, B is a frequent traveller who often tries to chat. A does not want to chat.

Why does that make the introvert envious or spiteful? Should people who do not wish to chat for an hour on a bus journey be forced to, in order to not be labelled spiteful?

ALongHardWinter · 02/03/2022 18:52

I hate it when this happens. I like to just sit quietly on the bus. Apart from the fact I'm a little hard of hearing when there's a lot of background noise going on,I use my bus journey time as a chance to catch up on stuff on my phone,like reading emails. Does my head in if someone keeps yakking at me!

Jux · 02/03/2022 20:40

"sorry, not up for chatting, busy preparing myself for work, lots to think carefully about." If asked what, say it's classified.

hauntedbillybass · 02/03/2022 21:01

I straight up say "I have autism. I don't like chatting on public transport."

Perhaps im giving ND people a reputation. I don't give a shit tbh.

hauntedbillybass · 02/03/2022 21:03

And, it's not my responsibility to educate people on why autistic people may or may not want to chat. I'm not all autistic people. I've been accused of giving ND people a bad reputation in the past.

It's like saying why are white/northern/large footed people are not chatty. Not everyone is the same.

lljkk · 02/03/2022 21:06

Do you live alone, OP?

Is time on bus your only time away from other people?

I'd regard B as my charitable deed of the day.

Never under-estimate how lonely a lot of ppl are.

Elphame · 02/03/2022 21:10

Why’s is there a backlash against certain extroverts? Because of utter shite like that. Because plenty of people, like you, obviously believe you are a better person than someone like me. Why the absolute fuck would I be envious?

I am not shy.
I am not socially awkward. I don’t ‘struggle socially’. If I choose to, I can slip on a mask and seamlessly join in with most social situations.

I’m not unsociable because I’m rubbish at being sociable.
I’m unsociable because I find many people, particularly those randomers who like to prattle on with small talk, very dull. I would rather be reading, listening to something, or even thinking.

I could be lonely in a large group of people. I could never be lonely with books to read, animals to look after or mountains to climb. I’m an introvert. I don’t need fixing.

THIS x1000

DuesToTheDirt · 02/03/2022 21:11

Lots of you saying B is rude, but I find A incredibly rude for moving seats.

JustLyra · 02/03/2022 21:14

@DuesToTheDirt

Lots of you saying B is rude, but I find A incredibly rude for moving seats.
It’s not rude to move away from a stranger annoying you.

If B was male no-one would think A rude for moving, yet B isn’t any less rude just because she’s female.

fairylightsandwaxmelts · 02/03/2022 21:22

@DuesToTheDirt

Lots of you saying B is rude, but I find A incredibly rude for moving seats.
Nope, A isn't rude at all.

B was rude because she plonked herself down next to a stranger and assumed it was okay to talk at her. A clearly wasn't interested and B didn't pay attention.

Since when was it rude to enforce your boundaries? Would you say the same if A was a lone woman and B was a strange man, out of curiosity?

fairylightsandwaxmelts · 02/03/2022 21:22

Ha, x-post @JustLyra :)

hauntedbillybass · 02/03/2022 21:23

If a man was persistently trying to engage you in conversation that you didn't want would you think it's rude to move away from them?

KarmaStar · 02/03/2022 21:28

Why are you bothered about it?

LittleWins · 02/03/2022 21:36

I’m person A too often but interested to know how this person A made it obvious they didn’t want to talk?

I doubt I would ever switch seats unless it was a man trying it on but I have said ‘I’ve just got to listen to this audio message’ pop in ear phones and hit play on a podcast or not & enjoy the silence.

Nietzschethehiker · 02/03/2022 21:39

I'm person A as well and there is a reason for it (also in my defence I go to great lengths to be able to drive alone before and after meetings etc for this exact reason).

I'm neurodivergent and an introvert but you wouldn't know that if you met me professionally or even personally in situations like school pickup etc.

I work very hard at masking because I am aware very keenly it will impact my career and things like making my dc look odd if I behave like me . I support dc (one of which is ASD) to be who they are but truthfully as a middle aged mother and professional I don't have that luxury. To succeed I have to mimic other people or they decide arbitrarily that I'm "rude" because I don't act exactly how they want and in many situations there is a negative consequence for me.

To achieve the above it takes everything I've got when I have to be "on". I train and speak to hundreds of people so it takes everything to mimic and mask during this. Those quiet moments are not just pleasant they are essential.

The consequences of me functioning are extreme sensory responses when my mask comes off and the pressure is released (in a scenario I can sit and breathe... if I don't get that I regress quite severely so time to deal is a set in stone period in the day) so "chatting" to me at that point would feel like someone screeching their nails down a blackboard, bottling the sound and managing to inject it directly into my brain. The discomfort would cause my skin to physically crawl , my head to pound and my eyes to feel like they were breaking while my ears were ringing. It's not personal to that person it's anyone.

I'm really not joking. I do in fairness deliberately (if forced to be in that situation travelling around others etc ) give very clear warnings non verbally that I don't want to talk , headphones in (without noise because I can't cope with it) book in front (which I can't read because my brain is interrupting itself). Turned away from any other human being. When I can get away with it sunglasses (partly because any light above a candle hurts).

I don't hate extroverts at all. I do however wonder why their need to validate themselves comes , quite often, before my need to not physically be in pain. And why it's socially acceptable for them to do it (someone above said about A being rude moving) but it's not for me to get out of the situation. Why are they more important than anyone else?

I guarantee you would never know if you met me. However I know more than a few in my situation who feels the same. So people need to leave others alone unless they know they welcome interaction.

ChubbyMorticia · 02/03/2022 21:40

Person A is not B’s obligatory entertainment.

lljkk · 02/03/2022 21:43

If sex difference matters then "what if B was a man" is very bad rhetorically. Irrelevant, actually.

ohfook · 02/03/2022 21:50

I am person A and I fucking hate running into people on public transport. My first thought upon seeing someone I know is always can I sustain a conversation with this person for the length of my journey? The answer is usually no.

I've never been brave enough to make it obvious to a B person but I wish I was.

RampantIvy · 02/03/2022 21:58

Headphones and book/kindle/phone?

More difficult on a bus though. The constant stopping and starting would make me feel sick if I was trying to read.

hauntedbillybass · 02/03/2022 22:03

@Nietzschethehiker Same! On all levels 💚

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