Who’s in the wrong? Unsociable or sociable?

[ShittyFingers]

Person A is pretty unsociable. She gets on the bus and looks forward to time alone to sit and think/daydream during her 1 hour journey.

Person B is sociable and looks forward the her 1 hour journey to chat.

Bus has lots of empty seats. Person B decides to sit next to Person A and try to strike up conversation. Person A is polite but makes it obvious she doesn’t want to talk. Person B is a little offended and thinks Person A is a miserable sod. After a few more attempts to make light conversation, person A moves seats. Person B now very upset and this plays on her mind all day.

Let’s say Covid isn’t a thing.

Who is unreasonable?

YABU - person A could have made more effort, it wouldn’t have killed her to chat

YANBU - person Bs wish to socialise doesn’t trump person A’s wish to not socialise

We have this on our train line as many regulars get the same train and start to recognise each other and/or loosely know each other from somewhere else.

A quick 'hello, hope all ok', at the platform, followed by 'right, reports to do' and moving elsewhere when the train arrives usually sorts it.

I had a person B do this to me, B stank of BO and vomit and I ended up getting off the bus and calling a taxi.
I guess some people either can’t recognise, or cheerfully ignore, social mores.
B should have asked A if they could sit next to them before doing so imo.

Person A is entitled to not talk but physically getting up and moving was very rude and Person B isn’t unreasonable to upset by that. Person A should have been normal and brave and just said - “sorry do you mind if I just read? Need the quiet - thanks! :)”

I suggest person A has a book or is plugged in to a pod cast (even if it is on mute), for her journey in future. It's a bit much to plonk yourself next to someone and want to chat without asking first if it is all right. I would say, "Fine for you to sit here if you want but I do relish the peace and quiet of being on my own for the journey".

@YanTanTetheraPetheraPimp

I had a person B do this to me, B stank of BO and vomit and I ended up getting off the bus and calling a taxi. I guess some people either can’t recognise, or cheerfully ignore, social mores. B should have asked A if they could sit next to them before doing so imo.

Christ I would have immediately got off the bus too, can’t be doing with mucky folk

Person B is unreasonable!

@Allsorts1

Person A is entitled to not talk but physically getting up and moving was very rude and Person B isn’t unreasonable to upset by that. Person A should have been normal and brave and just said - “sorry do you mind if I just read? Need the quiet - thanks! :)”

Op says they made it very clear they didnt want to engage. Its not remotely rude to move away from a person you find annoying, persistent or someone overstepping. The " be nice/ its rude" is always always aimed at women. Stop with be nice, its manipulative.

Boundaries. Person A has them, Person B lacks them.

Person B can fuck right off. Other people owe her nothing, and don't exist solely for her entertainment.

@Eastpoint

This explains why so many MNetters say they have no friends. Practice saying ‘sorry I haven’t got the headspace to chat today’ and B will understand & leave you alone. B will also still take you to hospital when your partner can’t or babysit when there’s an emergency. Being surly isn’t the way to go.

Haha that’s quite the nice little story you’re writing for yourself there! OP, next time ask Michelle for a lift to the hospital and do let us know how you get on

I’ve spent time on transport with an extremely chatty colleague recently who CANNOT take the hint that I would like the quiet right now no matter how clear I make it. She doesn’t want me to chat back, she just wants a receptacle for her chatter and in fact any time I try to respond and have an actual two way conversation (saying something like ‘oh yes, I’ve been there, it’s nice isn’t it…) she just cuts me right off and just carries on talking. She’ll ask me a question and not even wait for my answer before changing the subject on to something about herself. As someone with very limited mental energy right now I’m not even exaggerating when I say that I come in from these journeys and need to lie down from the exhaustion of listening to her talk for an hour straight!

Person B is massively overstepping and would drive me mad. I'd find her extremely rude.

Person B is in the wrong and needs to learn social skills, unless someone has made it clear they want you sitting next to them then don't (if there's other free seats) and if they're showing they don't want to talk then leave them alone. No reason to be offended by it, it's probably not a slight on Person B but they should have moved and either found someone willing to talk, phoned someone who was willing to talk or just endured the silence.

Antisocial? No, just selective!

I am person A. I would rather no speak to anyone on my journey and spend that time having a snooze. So YNBU

B is unreasonable for not getting, or choosing to ignore, the message that A doesn't want to engage.

I am a person A so I tend to just put on my earphones, whether or not I'm actually listening to something, and shut my eyes . Problem is that once you've had a conversation with someone once, if it's a regular bus or train journey with the same faces every day, it becomes an expectation to sit together after that. I'm happy to nod or say hello but that's as far as it goes.

Sometimes that's the only quiet time some people get in the midst of a busy day.

Person B is BU
They obviously cannot read body language and should not foist themselves on people. We have a woman like this at work and she bloody chases after you even though you've given her the 'must get on' 'I am really busy' sorry I must get back to work' 'I am LEAVING now'....... turn round and she's still bloody there!

Gosh, I am really surprised by the responses here. I come from another country where the social norm would definitely be Person B’s behaviour. It would be frowned upon to behave like Person A. This thread may be giving me personal insight into behaviour I have encountered in the UK that I have been surprised by.

@FuckThatBullshit

A classic example of a needy extrovert not being able to understand or respect a quiet introvert. They are so fucking irritating.

I'm totally in the Person B is an arsehole camp.

But why are these threads always open season for people to kick extroverts?

It's become totally acceptable these days for people who are introverted or have social anxiety to lash out at people aren't as "needy"/unable to read a room/selfish etc etc.

In this case this absolutely applies but why do people feel that having any degree of social confidence whatsoever or any appetite for socialising is an opportunity for a blanket insult? I'm really tired of the fact that this passes without any challenge. COVID really amplified this and I've count of the threads on here which basically call out non-introverts as arseholes/stupid/needy/vain/lacking in social radar etc.

We all understand that some people find indiscriminate social interaction harder than others. We all totally get that everyone has a right not to want to chat to strangers etc. Why is it necessary to be so unpleasant about people who have a different temperament?

I love your balls to actually move! We're you in the window seat and have to get passed her? 🤣

Unfortunately extroverts seem to think think they're polite and sociable and introverts are rude and ignorant. Like you don't have a right to not want to chat or hug.

@thepeopleversuswork
Honestly because introverts have been called rude and antisocial and nerds and loners and a million other things. By most of society for God knows how long and are actually a bit sick of it and I think lockdown gave them the breathing space they needed to realise what life could be like if you could just tell the extrovert on the bus to leave you alone instead of sitting there while they talk your ear off for the next hour and sit too close and talk too loud but you can't be rude.

I think person B was just being friendly.

However, they overstepped the mark and should have quickly realised that you didn't want to talk.

I also think person A is entitled to sit quietly, but getting up and moving seat is rude.

If I was person A I would probably have said something to person B, such as "please don't think I'm being rude but I'm feeling tired so am going to sit quietly".

Gosh, I am really surprised by the responses here. I come from another country where the social norm would definitely be Person B’s behaviour. It would be frowned upon to behave like Person A. This thread may be giving me personal insight into behaviour I have encountered in the UK that I have been surprised by.

This is Mumsnet where people spill out their whole life to strangers but won’t even open their front doors to their family unless the family member has made an appointment first. I am in the UK but no one I know behaves like this irl.

Yeah this isn’t an introvert/extrovert thing, it’s a social cues and etiquette thing. I’m an extrovert and a right chatterbox when I’m in the right mood. Sometimes an unexpectedly deep and meaningful chat with a stranger is the thing that makes my day. I once shared a bottle of wine with two strangers after striking up a conversation on a long train journey and had a great time.

I’d still be horrified if someone wanted to make small talk with me for my entire commute and wouldn’t leave me alone. I’d find that exhausting and upsetting. Even as an extrovert!

@thepeopleversuswork
Extroverts dont ignore other peoples social cues though.
They would chat to the person who was interested and leave the person alone if they werent.
This is someone who is completely ignoring the feelings, needs and social cues of another person.
Talking at them for an hour
Clearly the person has serious issues with how they relate to others,possibly ND.

We however are entitled to maintain our own boundaries about how we interact with others.

@Gizacluethen

Yes and by God did we get to hear about this during lockdown. All the endless threads about how wonderful it was not having to deal with the hated "people" etc. Stealth competition for the smallest amount of people you could have seen in a year.

Up to a point I get this... society does reward extroverts at some level and I can see its nice for people to have been able to establish some boundaries and signal that they can be happy just being who they are.

But the anti-extrovert rhetoric has become pretty extreme and quite vindictive now. That poster upthread basically said all extroverts are "needy"... imagine turning that around and saying "all introverts are dull and have no social graces." We'd rightly get shot down in flames for this.

Can we not just agree that a lot of this is temperament, its not political and that there are pros and cons of both approaches? Instead of treating like a long social revenge note by introverts....

I think Person B is in the wrong. It took some balls for you to get up and move and I can see why this upset them but who on earth thinks it's acceptable to sit next to a person you barely know and try to engage them when they clearly don't want it? I tend to get on the bus with the same few people but apart from "no, you get on first" or a rare comment about it being freezing we don't speak. to each other.