Are we able to discuss the Black students trapped in Ukraine on here?

[EddyF]

I think I have read most threads on here about Ukraine/Russia but have not seen any discussions on this issue here.

I saw on TikTok (yup, TikTok has so much information/videos on what’s going on) that Jamaica has now managed to get its people out. It’s the majority of African students that are facing problems getting out. I’m wondering what African leaders are doing about it? A lot of the African-American blogs/comments are furious about this issue (rightly so).

@Theluggage15

My Polish friends’ families are opening their own houses to refugees, while you’re whining on mumsnet that they’re racist. And poor Bruno, ‘so shattered’ by it all. Just another let’s be nasty about Eastern European threads.

There are loads of individuals who are nice people. Racism exists everywhere I don't get the defensiveness. Naturally as the only black person in town you'll attract more negative attention than in London. Why deny it exists?

Personally, I believe a lot of it is simply ignorance from lack of exposure to different people.

@Theluggage15

My Polish friends’ families are opening their own houses to refugees, while you’re whining on mumsnet that they’re racist. And poor Bruno, ‘so shattered’ by it all. Just another let’s be nasty about Eastern European threads.

I'm sorry, are you suggesting that a black woman can't feel shattered by reading page after page of denying the racism that is being experienced by black people? Or can you only feel any emotion on the Ukraine situation of you are speaking on Ukrainian nationals? Are you not aware that the two are not mutually exclusive and you can feel outrage at both? How bizarre.

@Theluggage15

My Polish friends’ families are opening their own houses to refugees, while you’re whining on mumsnet that they’re racist. And poor Bruno, ‘so shattered’ by it all. Just another let’s be nasty about Eastern European threads.

No just talking about the way poc are being treated in Ukraine while trying to leave. Is that ok with you?

@spittycup I'm not offended. I'm baffled at your logic. Not everyone in EE is like that are they so it's ok to generalise in way one, but not in the other? Based on your experience you could say that all EE are educated and pleasant, but that wouldn't be true. I just don't understand judging people by where they come from, it contributes to prejudice and that's what people are supposedly fighting against? Unless it doesn't apply to EE?

OP asked a question and yet again we have thread that proves the answer is no. You can't have any conversations about topics concerning racism without apologists and deniers rushing in to feel offended at the near thought of dialogue on the topic taking place. I remain shattered.

[quote RitaJosephina]**@spittycup* I'm not offended. I'm baffled at your logic. Not everyone in EE is like that are they* so it's ok to generalise in way one, but not in the other? Based on your experience you could say that all EE are educated and pleasant, but that wouldn't be true. I just don't understand judging people by where they come from, it contributes to prejudice and that's what people are supposedly fighting against? Unless it doesn't apply to EE?[/quote]

My viewpoint is pretty balanced but you seem dead set on accepting any criticism. There are certain attitudes. You are more likely to experience racism die to the fact you stand out more in an all white place.

How is that controversial? Racism exists everywhere including EE. There is a lack of exposure there, so there will be some hostility from some people because their only experience of non white people is indirectly through media

If you didn't get that, I can't be bothered wasti any more characters explaining

It's not dialogue when you don't want to hear what other side wants to say.

I have much sympathy for what the Ukraine people are going through

But racism can not be excused or justified and we should at times just listen to other peoples experiences

@RitaJosephina

It's not dialogue when you don't want to hear what other side wants to say.

Ironic isn't it.

@WeDontTalkAboutBrunoNoNoNo

OP asked a question and yet again we have thread that proves the answer is no. You can't have any conversations about topics concerning racism without apologists and deniers rushing in to feel offended at the near thought of dialogue on the topic taking place. I remain shattered.

I thought everyone tried to discuss the topic, not act offended.

You can talk about racism without being xenophobic.so far no one denied that racism is a reality. However, to say that Poles can be civilised by Americanisation is also outrageous.
People discussing cultures and countries they have no idea about is ridiculous.

@deragod

You can talk about racism without being xenophobic.so far no one denied that racism is a reality. However, to say that Poles can be civilised by Americanisation is also outrageous. People discussing cultures and countries they have no idea about is ridiculous.

American pop culture influence will impact how black people are viewed.

I’m shattered by the blatant xenophobia on this thread. It’s disgusting.

Not every country on this planet has the same race relations like America.

@spittycup Ironic isn't it I didn't reply to your comment.

[quote RitaJosephina]**@spittycup* Ironic isn't it* I didn't reply to your comment.[/quote]

So? I find it ironic and relayed that to you, that is all.

Of course there is plenty of racism in both Ukraine and at the borders with its western neighbours. Just as there's plenty of racism in the UK. Yes, people in the UK are more used to black and brown people than those in Eastern Europe, thanks to their history with colonialism. Meanwhile, they're more prone to racism against Eastern Europeans than Eastern Europeans, obviously....

That said, I imagine there are administrative reasons why Ukrainians and non-Ukrainian citizens coming from Ukraine are being treated differently at the border. The former are automatically classified as refugees, whereas the latter come from countries whose migrants have long been denigrated as 'economic refugees' etc etc. They're an oddity and must make administrators' heads spin. I'm not saying that's right, but after years of buildup of 'fortress Europe' (and fortress Britain) it should surprise nobody.

Meanwhile, it took me no more than three hours on facebook and whatsapp this afternoon to find accommodation with friends of friends in Budapest for a German friend's husband's cousin, who is Tanzanian and had to flee from Charkiv, where he had been a medical student. It's 20 years ago that I lived in Budapest and I had not seen most of them in years. But they were already busy organising support for refugees before I came along, and didn't care one bit where this guy came from. So there is hope.

@Theluggage15

I’m shattered by the blatant xenophobia on this thread. It’s disgusting.

Apparently it's not xenophobia, just stating the facts. All Eastern Europeans as racists ignorants living in awful countries that no POC wants to visit. Seems fine to me

People feel more comfortable helping people like themselves. It is called unconscious bias

@Madwomanuptheroad29 - actually, I think it’s often conscious bias and deliberate intent

VladmirsPoutine
I can't understand why saying Eastern Europe is racist is so controversial. The UK itself is a racist place so imagine that but on battery acid. Most of the world is racist. Anti-blackness is one of the few principles that unites the world

Exactly. Eastern Europeans in UK are racist to Black people, there are plenty of Black people in London where I am so, its not because they haven't seen Black people before is it?

They bring their racist attitudes over here. They are White, so racists in denial of anti-Black racism will of course try to pretend its because they see "difference". As if that somehow makes it ok.

I didnt comment on previous thread as too many silly Whitesplainers with no direct experience of anti-Black racism, were spouting nonsense.

They do appear to be everywhere as if they're on a mass-mission to be Black people's unasked for uneccessary mouthpiece but then, that in itself is nothing new

When dh and I met 30 years ago in Czechoslovakia one of the more startling things he was called was “a clean Jew”. Being a black man would have been worse.

The thread seems to have moved on again.
Polish news report today that the reason for this is a) children go first (rightly so) they are waiting for hours in cold, they are less capable than adult person of any sex/nationailty of making this journey b) men are not allowed out, it takes manpower to check peoples passports c)it is total chaos there, so they want to get the children out first.

Where I have been living the last three months (not Europe or in the West), the Ukraine conflict does not get the 24/7 rolling coverage I see on CNN, BBC etc.

It is seeking to extract its student citizens in Ukraine via Poland. And is offering accommodation and comfort to Ukrainians AND Russians temporarily stranded in ther country.

But doing the rounds on social media are memes to the effect of ‘look, white people are refugees with Netflix’ - a sardonic comment on the contrast between the horror of war involving ‘people like us’ compared with the casual disinterest (or worse) for (non white) conflicts elsewhere

I don’t understand why there is so much energy and effort expended to deny that racism exists in Eastern Europe or that people of colour are being discriminated against as they try to flee Ukraine. Can someone explain why this is happening on this thread?

And why is there so much energy and effort to deny the clearly reported experience of these people and to downgrade this violent experience as not being as important as the experience of white Ukrainians?

Can some explain why in this war black and brown people’s lives do not matter?

I occasionally come on MN. This thread has made me jump. As a privileged light skinned POC who gets stared out in Devon..(much to the disgust of my N American partner) I have black family friends and colleagues from many nations. The idea that they could be held back from fleeing a bloody war zone due to the colour of their skin doesn't suprise me sadly. It isn't about nationality. It's skin colour. To add its also about money.