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Original poster

Are we able to discuss the Black students trapped in Ukraine on here?

421 replies

EddyF · 01/03/2022 17:55

I think I have read most threads on here about Ukraine/Russia but have not seen any discussions on this issue here.

I saw on TikTok (yup, TikTok has so much information/videos on what’s going on) that Jamaica has now managed to get its people out. It’s the majority of African students that are facing problems getting out. I’m wondering what African leaders are doing about it? A lot of the African-American blogs/comments are furious about this issue (rightly so).

OP posts:
Bonheurdupasse · 02/03/2022 09:31

The issue is.
There may have been x such incidents.

However Russian trolls / propaganda (and don’t forget how good they’ve been at spreading fake news Re Brexit or Trump) are mis-representing them at being X times 100.

To make the western media concentrate on this and change the discourse to Ukrainians are nazis and they deserve the invasion (denazification in Putin’s words).

forinborin · 02/03/2022 09:34

@UniCred1

The student who took the knife out was thrown on the floor and sworn at for DAYS. I'm not saying it's the right thing but I would urge you to think of your son or brother in his place. To think the priority is only given to women and young children is a naive fallacy. Students watched everyone allowed to board but not them. If you're not white they won't even listen to you. If you try to speak up they'll violently push you away. My sister watched a Ukrainian girl crying and kissing her Tunisian boyfriend goodbye before boarding as they didn't let him go with her. The student who took the knife out has had enough of feeling like the scum of the earth for days. Imagine being somewhere where people are ignoring you, belittling you and you don't matter because of your skin colour or the language they heard you speaking over the phone. It's not just the transport staff but the locals cheered when these students were denied boarding. Stop acting as if everything is peaceful and la vie est en rose. It's chaos at the moment. You don't want violence then don't use it in the first place. Lead by example they said.
If you take out a knife at an armed member of local police who are running the evacuation effort during the war - yes, expect to be thrown on the ground irrespective of your skin colour.

My young female relative is a year behind your sister (pharma, not dentistry) and has been enlisted, no doubt using her white privilege, as a medic into the local field hospital (and she's just at the very start of her clinical phase). Your sister is safe in Romania. Let's keep a sense of proportion of what is happening there. I wasn't the one insisting everything is rosy there.

Bluebellsunderthetrees · 02/03/2022 09:42

@Bonheurdupasse

The issue is. There may have been x such incidents.

However Russian trolls / propaganda (and don’t forget how good they’ve been at spreading fake news Re Brexit or Trump) are mis-representing them at being X times 100.

To make the western media concentrate on this and change the discourse to Ukrainians are nazis and they deserve the invasion (denazification in Putin’s words).

The far right and Nazi element in Ukraine army has been discussed regularly in the UK, nothing to do with Putin. I believe FB did actually ban any discussion of the far right/neo Nazi Ukrainian battalion. However now you are allowed to refer to then on Fb as long as it's just saying how well/brave they are fighting the Russians.
Bluebellsunderthetrees · 02/03/2022 09:43

To make that clear FB banned them because of their Nazi views

RitaJosephina · 02/03/2022 09:55

@UniCred1
Yet you don't extend the same level of sympathy to Ukrainians running away from war? I'll repeat that again. This is not normal situation. It's life and death. I'm not denying that there were racist instances. But for every board guard that behaved in that way there were many people helping all people cross the border. This thread doesn't allow for a dialogue. I don't agree that Eastern Europeans are racist. There are racist people in every country. But to label the whole country as racist is a bit much and adds to prejudice that is already deeply rooted in this country. The Nigerian student that was interviewed said that she had a lovely time in Ukraine before and that Ukrainians are friendly people (before the war broke). Does that invalidate her experience? Of course not, but it's not as black and white as it's painted on this thread.

kingat · 02/03/2022 09:55

@spittycup

*But it was inclusive enough for all these people to live there? How are they stuck there if its such a horrible place, they should have left ages ago.*

Sorry @kingat, but why should they have to bow down to racists. Let them get their degrees, let them live with their families in Ukraine. How can you deny racism like this, it's shocking. If someone suffers a racial attack in the UK do you also imply they should go back to where they were before rather than address the issue? Hmm

No, I am saying EE is not such a horrible place as some posters are trying to paint hence why people are happy to go there to study. If it was so bad they wouldnt go there or they would leave. There are incidents, as there are in the UK. It doesnt make the whole huge place made up of a number of countries racist. The thread was supposed to be about incidents at the border and I still have not seen any evidence of a black child being unable to leave for being black. It is all about young single students ans I am saying children should be given priority. Previous poster said their sister was taken off the train to give space to a baby and yes as horrible as it is it is right.
UniCred1 · 02/03/2022 09:56

@forinborin You don't want to listen do you?
The transport staff as well as the police were throwing, pushing, swearing at the students for the DAYS before the knife incident. BEFORE THE CHAP TOOK OUT THE KNIFE. B E F O R E. F O R D A Y S.

It was a reaction after feeling invisible and worthless for days.

But carry on thinking it's the fault of the barbaric non whites as always for refusing to bow to racist acts and taking matters into their own hands. Please enlighten me on what students who are STILL there and are STILL denied boarding should do?

REMEMBER: IT'S NOT BECAUSE THERE'S A QUEUE OR THAT PRIORITY IS GIVEN TO WOMEN AND CHILDREN. It's because they don't deserve to be saved when the place can be taken by a white Ukrainian who's of course much worthier of surviving.

CheshireChat · 02/03/2022 09:56

@forinborin I don't think this thread is doing you any good all things considered.

I'm really sorry about you (and your sister) are going through, there's no words.

RitaJosephina · 02/03/2022 09:58

@spittycup

I’m from Eastern Europe and lived in Africa: in Botswana I was stared at, my hair touched, by random strangers because they had never seen a white person before. I wonder if that counts as racist to the PP? Or not racist because I’m not black? I’m jewish btw.

It's not racist. They do it because yes, they've never seen a white person im real life. White people get treated BETTER when they go to Africa, I'm slightly offended you'd compare that to racism black people get.

I'm willing to bet you got a lot of marriage proposals and admiration. That is not the same as people viewing you as inferior and tearing you badly for your tone.

There is being treated different and being treated badly.

Yeah, 'friendly stare' , heard that before. I lived in Asia and was treated unfavourably purely because of my white skin. I was charged more for the same food that locals ate, I was ignored even though I spoke local language. In Japan people stood up and left the train when I sat next to them. Is that racist or it can never happen to white people?
spittycup · 02/03/2022 10:01

@RitaJosephina

That's not racism babe. They think you have money because you're western. My Nigerian mum gets the western rate til she puts the accent on.

You know it's not racism. You can't really think being touched or being admired for your white skin is racist. It's the leftovers of imperialism and it works in your favour.

RitaJosephina · 02/03/2022 10:09

[quote spittycup]@RitaJosephina

That's not racism babe. They think you have money because you're western. My Nigerian mum gets the western rate til she puts the accent on.

You know it's not racism. You can't really think being touched or being admired for your white skin is racist. It's the leftovers of imperialism and it works in your favour. [/quote]
Maybe not racism, but definitely xenophobia and prejudice. Widespread in UK.

emuloc · 02/03/2022 10:13

You are really reaching now, RitaJosephina.

forinborin · 02/03/2022 10:13

Please enlighten me on what students who are STILL there and are STILL denied boarding should do?
They should do exactly what the rest of people there do. When the sirens are on, head to your nearest shelter. If there are spaces on any of the evacuation transport, jump on. There's no other sensible advice at the moment.
I am glad your sister is safe now, and hope your family will forget it as a bad nightmare.

spittycup · 02/03/2022 10:19

@RitaJosephina

What prejudice? Your seriously sitting there thinking "this is so racist" as your given free food, told you have nice hair and skin tone, and are charged the equivalent of £2 extra because people want a bit more money from tourists? There's no pleasing you.

As @kingat said, don't go if it's so badWink

forinborin · 02/03/2022 10:21

[quote CheshireChat]@forinborin I don't think this thread is doing you any good all things considered.

I'm really sorry about you (and your sister) are going through, there's no words.[/quote]
You're right, it just hits way too close. Didn't want to offend anyone.

sqirrelfriends · 02/03/2022 10:31

It's awful, surely it doesn't matter if people are Ukrainian or not, they're still people.

I really struggle to understand the viewpoint that Ukrainians (or let's be honest, white people) are prioritised in regards to getting to safety. They're must be some complex mental gymnastics that my little brain doesn't get.

ABitBesotted · 02/03/2022 10:33

Can we agree it's abhorrent (and possibly murderous in the circumstances, given the conditions at the border as desperation increases) for Polish border guards to send black people to the back of the queue, and also wrong for a white woman to be pawed, ogled, assaulted? It's not as though only one can be wrong. Many Slavic women of my acquaintance have been harassed or assaulted in Turkey, where "Natasha" is slang for prostitute. It happens and it's fucking shit.

zoeFromCity · 02/03/2022 10:34

As a person from Eastern Europe, I am totally horrified by this thread and level of nastiness in it.
Not totally surprised thought, as Brexit campaign has shown, how hating Poles based on their nationality is a fair game in the UK.

It is a war. Whole region is massively stepping up to help people fleeing Ukraine, official structures which provide professional help and individuals who provide the help they are able to.

Borders aren't open in a total anarchy - both sides have registrations and are verifying identities (all adults 15+ have their IDs issued by default in the area), the border agencies still have all standard duties to protect the Schengen area borders (internationally seeked for gangsters, smuggling, this kind of stuff).
All capacity is increased as possible (and the EU side is coping quite well), but it isn't racism, if the second queue works only for simple cases, or is technically less equipped.

All countries around the border are cooperating when embassies of 3rd countries want to pick up their people.

Yes, this region has less experience with people of colour, partially because we never occupied/colonised them, so haven't got the incoming wave back.
It is ok to summarize information and point to missing procedures.
Yes, there were definitely real issues as well as the propaganda made ones.
It is normal to be angry about what is happening.
It is ok to be worried about all individual lifes
I see many people in this thread are of colour themselves. Just, please, try to be a bit more fair in your anger.

It is Russia, who created the situation at the first place, Ukraine didn't started it, nor did the eastern EU countries.
It is Putin who don't care about lives of white, black or brown.

Motherofgorgons · 02/03/2022 10:50

@zoeFromCity

As a person from Eastern Europe, I am totally horrified by this thread and level of nastiness in it. Not totally surprised thought, as Brexit campaign has shown, how hating Poles based on their nationality is a fair game in the UK.

It is a war. Whole region is massively stepping up to help people fleeing Ukraine, official structures which provide professional help and individuals who provide the help they are able to.

Borders aren't open in a total anarchy - both sides have registrations and are verifying identities (all adults 15+ have their IDs issued by default in the area), the border agencies still have all standard duties to protect the Schengen area borders (internationally seeked for gangsters, smuggling, this kind of stuff).
All capacity is increased as possible (and the EU side is coping quite well), but it isn't racism, if the second queue works only for simple cases, or is technically less equipped.

All countries around the border are cooperating when embassies of 3rd countries want to pick up their people.

Yes, this region has less experience with people of colour, partially because we never occupied/colonised them, so haven't got the incoming wave back.
It is ok to summarize information and point to missing procedures.
Yes, there were definitely real issues as well as the propaganda made ones.
It is normal to be angry about what is happening.
It is ok to be worried about all individual lifes
I see many people in this thread are of colour themselves. Just, please, try to be a bit more fair in your anger.

It is Russia, who created the situation at the first place, Ukraine didn't started it, nor did the eastern EU countries.
It is Putin who don't care about lives of white, black or brown.

I am not angry with EE people. Black people are treated horrifically in my own country of origin: India. So am not going to sit here saying all EE are racist as I haven't a leg to stand on. However I don't think discussion of how colour plays a part in international travel, even in normal times, should be shut down. There is a hierarchy and black people are at the bottom ( brown people possibly slightly higher).
kingat · 02/03/2022 10:51

@zoeFromCity

As a person from Eastern Europe, I am totally horrified by this thread and level of nastiness in it. Not totally surprised thought, as Brexit campaign has shown, how hating Poles based on their nationality is a fair game in the UK.

It is a war. Whole region is massively stepping up to help people fleeing Ukraine, official structures which provide professional help and individuals who provide the help they are able to.

Borders aren't open in a total anarchy - both sides have registrations and are verifying identities (all adults 15+ have their IDs issued by default in the area), the border agencies still have all standard duties to protect the Schengen area borders (internationally seeked for gangsters, smuggling, this kind of stuff).
All capacity is increased as possible (and the EU side is coping quite well), but it isn't racism, if the second queue works only for simple cases, or is technically less equipped.

All countries around the border are cooperating when embassies of 3rd countries want to pick up their people.

Yes, this region has less experience with people of colour, partially because we never occupied/colonised them, so haven't got the incoming wave back.
It is ok to summarize information and point to missing procedures.
Yes, there were definitely real issues as well as the propaganda made ones.
It is normal to be angry about what is happening.
It is ok to be worried about all individual lifes
I see many people in this thread are of colour themselves. Just, please, try to be a bit more fair in your anger.

It is Russia, who created the situation at the first place, Ukraine didn't started it, nor did the eastern EU countries.
It is Putin who don't care about lives of white, black or brown.

Yes, there is also that, they have to check who is coming in
ginghamstarfish · 02/03/2022 11:13

I am only surprised to learn that there are numbers of Asian and Black students in Eastern European countries, as let's be quite honest, it has surely been known for a long time that they are not as diverse or welcoming to other non-white people as the more western European countries.

emuloc · 02/03/2022 11:37

So, it is okay for white people to travel to where ever, but black and brown people should just stay where they may be tolerated, if they are lucky.

RitaJosephina · 02/03/2022 12:37

@emuloc

So, it is okay for white people to travel to where ever, but black and brown people should just stay where they may be tolerated, if they are lucky.
No one said that. These students were actually treated well in Ukraine before the war broke. Racism is despicable and should be condemned, but it cannot be extended to whole countries/nations. This thread is a great platform for all xenophobic and prejudiced people to hate Eastern Europeans. We can have a civilised discussion without generalising and offensive remarks.