AIBU to expect my daughter to be a tad more independent?

[Cloudsandrainbows]

First off let me start by saying my daughter has ASD. She is bright and in mainstream school. Her issues are mainly social emotional and anxiety related. She relies on visuals for knowing what's happening daily, and has set routines, she is naive and takes everything literally. However at 7 and a half years old, I am now getting frustrated at her lack of ability to perform self care tasks. Yes I expect to still supervise and support with washing and brushing teeth etc but she literally gets out the bath after me asking 10 times and stands there saying she's cold until I dry her. She will not pick up a towel and wrap it round herself, even if prompted. Should she understand and be able to do this by now? What can your children manage alone and what do they need help with? Or am I missing something that she finds hard about this task?

@Cloudsandrainbows

Can't say I've read all the posts but had a quick catch up....I'm surprised by how many people seem to expect autistic people to not be able to do simple tasks. Ok there are challenges in the form of sensory issues and executive function, but these can be overcome with support, can they not? Why should my expectations be any lower for her, compared to a NT child?! I will do whatever I can to help her to manage and cope with any issues she faces in any aspect of her life, so that she can have the same opportunities as everyone else, and in doing that I want to help her to vocalise, and recognise what she may be experiencing differently to help educate those around her. I have done an awful lot of reading about autism, and am currently completing my second 12 course, but without actually being autistic I will never truly understand. Autistic or not she is an individual, and as autism is a spectrum and we are all individuals, her autism is unique to her, therefore her experiences, positive and negative, in any situation are never going to be the same as someone else's. I thank all of you who have given practical ideas and support. I will crack this, one step at a time. Then I'll move onto riding a bike .....giving myself till 2045 for that one 🤣

I think you have now answered your own question. Your daughter is on the spectrum and everyone is affected differently.💐

Kids with ASD can find things like this very hard.

Do some reading and get some support if necessary. Do you belong to ASD parenting organisations? It’s good to encourage independence of course, but you are being unreasonable not to make more of an effort to understand ASD.

OP - Would you expect someone who is blind to be able to “overcome” it and be able to see? Maybe if they just tried a bit harder.. A bit harder to be like their seeing peers perhaps.

Please don’t try to make your autistic daughter behave in a way that gives her “the same opportunities as everyone else” by trying to make her more like her peers.

That will not equal success and inclusion and acceptance from others for her.

@Cloudsandrainbows

Can't say I've read all the posts but had a quick catch up....I'm surprised by how many people seem to expect autistic people to not be able to do simple tasks. Ok there are challenges in the form of sensory issues and executive function, but these can be overcome with support, can they not? Why should my expectations be any lower for her, compared to a NT child?! I will do whatever I can to help her to manage and cope with any issues she faces in any aspect of her life, so that she can have the same opportunities as everyone else, and in doing that I want to help her to vocalise, and recognise what she may be experiencing differently to help educate those around her. I have done an awful lot of reading about autism, and am currently completing my second 12 course, but without actually being autistic I will never truly understand. Autistic or not she is an individual, and as autism is a spectrum and we are all individuals, her autism is unique to her, therefore her experiences, positive and negative, in any situation are never going to be the same as someone else's. I thank all of you who have given practical ideas and support. I will crack this, one step at a time. Then I'll move onto riding a bike .....giving myself till 2045 for that one 🤣

So you have read about autism, are on your second course about autism and have heard from autistic adults about how we are affected by things like having baths/showers but you still don't get it?
No we cannot 'overcome' autism!!
Her 'coping' with issues like this isn't actually coping, it's called masking and would be for your benefit alone.
Support your child for God sake.

The way I would think about it is this. Clearly there is something missing in terms of her understanding the job. It's a reasonable and even necessary thing for her to learn, it's basic self care. So what you need to do is maybe think of another way to approach it.

Chances are that eventually she'll get there.

I wonder - has she ever seen you wrap a towel around yourself out of the bath, or anyone else? Maybe she can't quite picture what would happen - in her mind, towels, for her and her sibling anyway, are wrapped around by someone else.

My DD is NT and when she was 7, I was still wrapping her in a big fluffy towel and lifting her out of the bath, then we always had a quick cuddle- it was just part of the whole bathtime thing and we both loved it.

Wow I'm a twat for wanting to support my daughter? The question was really help me establish what is expected at this age, I only have ND children, I simply wasn't sure if the issue was age typical or an autism issue

@Cloudsandrainbows

Wow I'm a twat for wanting to support my daughter? The question was really help me establish what is expected at this age, I only have ND children, I simply wasn't sure if the issue was age typical or an autism issue

I think that poster was referring to the ableist pish about how autistic people can 'overcome' things that many of us have told you we can't.

Oh and the answer to your question, from multiple posters, is to stop having age related expectations of your child. She has a disability. Work with her, not against her. If she needs you to wrap her in a towel you wrap her in a towel - it doesn't matter what the rest of the 7 year olds in the world are doing, if yours needs you then you simply be there for them.

I'd suggest putting this on the Nd board or sn children.

I'm an ASD adult and I need helping with bathing.

I get sensory overload from drying so can only drip dry.

Maybe focus on another task to develop.

I'm struggling to see what people can't understand about what I want for my daughter. She will always be autistic, she will always find some things difficult in life, as a child or adult, but doesn't mean she should let those difficulties stop her doing things. There are ways around thing. A good suggestion from one person about the bath temperature and temperature of the room, if there wasn't such a stark change then the sensory element could be less severe, a towel robe or poncho another good idea, a time of adjustment before drying etc. How is that not supporting and masking the problem? She should expect for allowances to made in life for her as they would for a wheelchair user, what's wrong with that? No she cannot be fixed or made the same as everyone else, nor would I want her to be. To me she is absolutely perfect, but in spite of all the reading and learning I have done, I will never be able to get it right for her first time, although I wish I could. Separate bath times would be easier but we are a working family, and currently her getting a bit cold and having a sensory overload from that is far less than the sensory overload she experiences if I leave her brother unattended, as he screams very loudly which upsets her far more than getting cold. She may still be a bit young to master some of these tasks but she has to learn at some point as I will not always be there for her, and it may take her longer to learn these skills so I don't see the harm in starting now? So forgive me if I am causing offense to some of you but I am honestly trying my best, and if that's not good enough then go ahead and call social services. I never said I knew it all, but I am really trying!

Can we stop with the 'sorry to cause offence' when someone disagrees? I'm not offended I just thought your perspective was wrong. I'm allowed to say so.

My ds has asd and I often find he struggles to make links between what he is feeling e.g. cold when he gets out of the bath and doing something to change that e.g. getting dry. He tends to just get stuck on the feeling so needs prompting (quite a lot). As he has got older he has got better though. One thing that struck me was that you say your daughter doesn't want to hold a towel as you dry her hair. Does she have sensory issues about the towel and if so would a smooth travel towel be better?

You seem quite full on xxxsuper and like you're having a go at the OP because she isn't thinking like you.

@Doveyouknow she doesn't seem to take issue with the towel itself, she selects mainly by colour with things like that. She can hold it round her, but for some reason doesn't like to when having hair dried, but won't put PJ's on until her hair is dry. On the odd occasion at a weekend if I get time with me and her alone, she likes it if I wrap the towel round under her arms and tuck it in making a dress like I do to myself, obviously she can't do that herself and wouldn't expect her to. It's just on a weekday when I'm tight for time, and on my own I find it hard to cut myself in half and if I could just help her to be able to keep the towel round her would everyone a lot of distress. I can wrap the towel round her myself, and she just let's it drop. Some times she holds it while walking to the bedroom but I have to tell her to.

You sound resentful that you are having to do these tasks. Autism aside, seven is still very young and I'd expect most children to still need some assistance with bathing. I think you are expecting too much and you seem fed up of parenting. Children aren't independent at 7 and still need a huge amount of input. You can't expect to be free of these tasks just yet.

@Cloudsandrainbows

Can't say I've read all the posts but had a quick catch up....I'm surprised by how many people seem to expect autistic people to not be able to do simple tasks. Ok there are challenges in the form of sensory issues and executive function, but these can be overcome with support, can they not? Why should my expectations be any lower for her, compared to a NT child?! I will do whatever I can to help her to manage and cope with any issues she faces in any aspect of her life, so that she can have the same opportunities as everyone else, and in doing that I want to help her to vocalise, and recognise what she may be experiencing differently to help educate those around her. I have done an awful lot of reading about autism, and am currently completing my second 12 course, but without actually being autistic I will never truly understand. Autistic or not she is an individual, and as autism is a spectrum and we are all individuals, her autism is unique to her, therefore her experiences, positive and negative, in any situation are never going to be the same as someone else's. I thank all of you who have given practical ideas and support. I will crack this, one step at a time. Then I'll move onto riding a bike .....giving myself till 2045 for that one 🤣

No autism can't be overcome. If you have read about it you will know that. You shouldn't have the same expectations for both your children, even if they were both NT, because all children are different. Your eldest DD has autism, you need to support her not moan because she can't do a "simple" tas6. It's clearly not simple to her. You must adapt for your DD not expect her to change. It's fucking hard having an autistic child, I know that because I have one. There are things we can't do as a family because she couldn't cope. We don't expect her to get over it. Austic people can't just change. Not because they are difficult but because they can't.

Our son is still awaiting asd assesment, been over a year now. He started having showers at that age, after being shown what you do he was fine to get on with it. Our twins are almost 7 with no asd and have started doing showers with minimal help from me, I make sure shower curtain is where it should be and window opened but the rest they can manage.
Our 9 year old was bloody awkward and did this later on, she couldn't (more wouldn't) open the car doors until gone 8 when the twins who are almost 3 years younger could manage to do it (eye twitching frustration level).

@WTF475878237NC

You seem quite full on xxxsuper and like you're having a go at the OP because she isn't thinking like you.

No, just an autistic adult sick of the ableist 'it can be overcome' attitude I read every day about autism. It's not ok. I was not 'having a go' I was suggesting that OP treats her child as an individual and helps her when she needs help rather then comparing her to other 7 year olds and expecting her to overcome her disability to suit.

Are they both bathing every night? What about alternating them? Would the one not being bathed be able to sit in the bathroom and play on an iPad, so you can concentrate more on bathing and drying the other child?

@Cloudsandrainbows

I never said it was her fault?! Maybe this is the wrong thread. If it's age appropriate then fine, but from friends and family it seems a lot of peers her age are capable of a lot more, and as her mum I want to support her to overcome the things she finds hard. I can't do everything for her forever. I am usually quite good at decoding her behaviours but her reluctance on this one has me stumped. I'd never not help her, but when I'm helping her younger sibling and she's complaining she's cold and I hand her a towel, she cannot comprehend what to do with it, although she has seen over and over how I wrap it round her and dry her. I don't expect her to do it all, just hold the towel round herself for a second, but if I'm not holding it round her it's on the floor and she's complaining she's cold 🤷

She is autistic, as harsh as this sounds you need to step away from comparing her to NT children (of any age). My almost 12yo still needs reminding (several times) that he needs to go for a wee when he wakes up. He still needs walking through every little step of getting dressed.

I know how hard it is watching the little one starting to "get" things before an ASD child. There's just about the same age gap with my youngest 2 and yes it is hard not to compare when the little starts gaining the independent living skills the bigger one has no clue about.

@Cloudsandrainbows

I'm struggling to see what people can't understand about what I want for my daughter. She will always be autistic, she will always find some things difficult in life, as a child or adult, but doesn't mean she should let those difficulties stop her doing things. There are ways around thing. A good suggestion from one person about the bath temperature and temperature of the room, if there wasn't such a stark change then the sensory element could be less severe, a towel robe or poncho another good idea, a time of adjustment before drying etc. How is that not supporting and masking the problem? She should expect for allowances to made in life for her as they would for a wheelchair user, what's wrong with that? No she cannot be fixed or made the same as everyone else, nor would I want her to be. To me she is absolutely perfect, but in spite of all the reading and learning I have done, I will never be able to get it right for her first time, although I wish I could. Separate bath times would be easier but we are a working family, and currently her getting a bit cold and having a sensory overload from that is far less than the sensory overload she experiences if I leave her brother unattended, as he screams very loudly which upsets her far more than getting cold. She may still be a bit young to master some of these tasks but she has to learn at some point as I will not always be there for her, and it may take her longer to learn these skills so I don't see the harm in starting now? So forgive me if I am causing offense to some of you but I am honestly trying my best, and if that's not good enough then go ahead and call social services. I never said I knew it all, but I am really trying!

Just ignore it. It's the same on a lot of the autism support groups, people attack you all the time. I know plenty of people that no longer join them or ask anyone for thoughts online because of it. Which is too bad.

Just ignore it. It's the same on a lot of the autism support groups, people attack you all the time.

OP hadn't been attacked. Telling someone their approach isn't what their autistic child needs is not attacking. People have lived experience and are trying to help. Most so called 'support groups' are full of comments of a similar nature - how to get the autistic child to 'overcome' their disability. It's not ok to do this and it's not attacking to point it out. OP will help her DD much better by accepting she needs a bit of support, rather then thinking she should be able to do things based on her age.

My two dc are both autistic, one 12 and one 8, my eldest will get out of the bath/shower and put his pjs or clothes straight on his drenched body. He also wouldn’t actually wash using soap/shampoo without my encouragement or doing it for him.
I still wipe my 8 year olds bottom as it’s just not something she can do (she also has learning disabilities and other disabilities alongside autism) she ends up covered in her own mess when she has tried.

It’s just part and parcel of autism in our experience, things take much longer to grasp and independence is going to take longer. I can understand your frustration though, some days I just wish life was a bit easier.

Only suggestion I have is to perhaps create a visual routine for bath time that she can follow or tell her what the next step is in the routine as you’re doing it. “Ok dd, I’m going to get you out of the bath now, here is your towel, I want you to wrap it around yourself” then actually physically show her what you mean and demonstrate the actual process of drying your body and get her to copy it.

I asked dd to help me set the table last night and it was literally one fork at a time, then one knife at a time, a glass then another and they were just piled in the middle of the table but she did it and she helped me and I then showed her how I set it up properly. I know this will take many times before she could do this task independently.

I don’t think the op was suggesting that autism can be overcome, but more just that despite her autism this child has to learn everyday tasks such as bathing. Most children, unless quite severely disabled, will have to learn these tasks, although it may take them longer or be more difficult for them.

My son is autistic and struggles with dressing himself but the answer isn’t for me to just dress him forever since he enjoys it and it is easier. That would be doing him a disservice, since he attends mainstream schooling and clubs and he needs his independence too. The answer is to support him to be able to handle that task independently. He might have to learn the skills differently but he does have to learn them.

I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable for op to question how she can get her child to learn this task.