Pre-teen daughter suddenly identifying as 'non binary'.

[PatButchersEarring]

Such a first world problem, particularly in light of recent world events, but our pre-teen (12 year old) daughter has recently decided that she's non binary, has asked us to call her by a different name and refer to her as they/them.

It is all out of the blue. Up until 1 year or so ago, she was 'tom boy' ish, but generally happy in her own skin. Before this, quite typically 'girly', in the way little girls often are. I would add though, we are aware of gender stereotyping and have always actively sought to make her aware that gender stereotypes are no more than just that.

Now, we have discovered she is self harming and wants to be known by a different (non gendered) name with neutral pronouns etc.

Several of her same age friends are also identifying as the opposite gender from their biological sex. One of her female friends is declaring herself to be a 'gay male' i.e. her biologically female friend identifies as a boy and is attracted to boys. 'He' has already had several (non official) name changes.

Parents of aforementioned children seem to be in support of this.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but my stance is that if you're not comfortable with your 'gender' then it's the perceived gender roles which need to be changed, not the person's identity.

I don't know what to do for the best. Why oh why is this even an issue for a child who has not even gone through puberty?

I really hope this is just a phase. Is it a fashion? The new rebellion? 2022's equivalent of smoking behind the bike sheds?

Anyone else been through this? We have sought counselling for her BTW, specifically in light of the self harm.

Sorry- not really an AIBU.

Wow, are you ok?

@Momicrone

Migrainebythedozen, I agree with bearinatree, it's a difficult balancing act, have a bit more compassion for families going through this. Your posts sound very shouty with your use of bold and undelining

@Momicrone Bold and underlining is for emphasis, so I don't use the caps lock. It is accepted netiquette practice. The whole point is it isn't shouting, it is emphasis. But do continue to obfuscate out of desperation. I unlike you do have compassion for the families going through this, that's the irony reading your posts you don't have any compassion for them.

@Ballcactus

Wow, are you ok?

@Ballcactus Still waiting on your (made up by yourself) stats.... You made the claim, so where are they.

Oh OK then, thanks for clarifying where my compassion lies . Maybe lay off the bold and the underlining though.

Unfortunately it now seems to be a thing especially amongst secondary schoolers not to identify as a straight person of CIS gender;yes identifying as the gender you were born as now has a name.It's essential seen as uncool.I think a lot of it is peer pressure and pressure of their generation.The amount of teenagers with mental health issues has also risen dramatically.

The pressure on kids these days is ridiculous.

That guardian article is very irresponsible. Breaches the Samaritans media guide on reporting suicide.
www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/media-guidelines/10-top-tips-reporting-suicide/

I do believe there is a condition called gender disphoria which can only be treated through allowing the individual to transition
@Aishah231 This isn't true, lots of people with gender dysphoria live as adults with the condition (and therapy for other issues and for this helps a lot - most have other issues too); and most children (up to 80%) with gender dysphoria feel happier in their sexed body - so don't need to transition - after puberty.

@thenewduchessoflapland

Unfortunately it now seems to be a thing especially amongst secondary schoolers not to identify as a straight person of CIS gender;yes identifying as the gender you were born as now has a name.It's essential seen as uncool.I think a lot of it is peer pressure and pressure of their generation.The amount of teenagers with mental health issues has also risen dramatically.

The pressure on kids these days is ridiculous.

This classification of everyone who doesn't identify as either trans or non binary as "cisgender" infuriates me.

I'm not cisgender. I do not have a gender identity for pretty much the same reason that I do not have a religion. I do not believe that most people have either a blue soul to match their penis or a pink soul to match their vagina and that only trans and non binary people are special and different, because that is ridiculous.

I have a sex, which is female, and a personality, which is unique to me.

Someone needs to let these kids in on the big secret, which is that by far the most rebellious thing you can do these days is refuse to be labelled according to the cult of gender identity, and just get on with living your life.

Hi op. I'm glad that when I was a teenager the worst i had to worry about was how much a can of hairspray was going to cost me for the weekends youth club disco night.

I think the internet has a lot to answer for!

My youngest is in her teens. Approached me last year about her sexuality and then when she felt comfortable enough she confided that she wasn't happy being female.
We made sure she always had a listening ear and no judgement. We called her by the male version of her name, she started to dress as a boy.
She's ASD and goes to alternative provision school. They have in school councillors and the one she trusted most helped her open up a bit more.

Turns out she is just absolutely terrified of men, she started to want to be a boy when she started getting unwanted male attention. Wants to just blend in and not be noticed really. Doesn't feel ready for puberty, the changes to her body are making her anxious. Quite common in ASD children. But I'm guessing it's similar for most girls. I remember grown men pestering me and being inappropriate and just feeling quite scared.

We carefully monitor her internet use. She willingly atm only uses it for school work and chats to a few friends from school. That's helped. I think when we were kids we found our own identities from life experience, going out with friends, experimenting with fashion etc. nowdays they are looking for their identity online. And it's a sodding cesspit.

Anyway ten months on she's herself again. Happy to use her real name, doesn't label herself either way but is happy for me to refer to her as a girl. She's giving herself time. Not pressuring herself either way. Some days she's full boy mode, next she's all rainbow makeup and cute dresses.
She's happy.

Hope my experience of this helps. Best of luck x

Turns out she is just absolutely terrified of men, she started to want to be a boy when she started getting unwanted male attention. Wants to just blend in and not be noticed really. Doesn't feel ready for puberty, the changes to her body are making her anxious. Quite common in ASD children. But I'm guessing it's similar for most girls. I remember grown men pestering me and being inappropriate and just feeling quite scared.

Nail on head.

I suspect this is why a lot of teenage girls don't want to be women.

@babyjellyfish

Turns out she is just absolutely terrified of men, she started to want to be a boy when she started getting unwanted male attention. Wants to just blend in and not be noticed really. Doesn't feel ready for puberty, the changes to her body are making her anxious. Quite common in ASD children. But I'm guessing it's similar for most girls. I remember grown men pestering me and being inappropriate and just feeling quite scared.

Nail on head.

I suspect this is why a lot of teenage girls don't want to be women.

Yes, that plus the whole pornified culture. One of my dd’s friends (17, think just turned 18) followed me on Instagram so I politely followed her back, I get a jolt whenever I see her photos though, all heavily posed with cleavage pushed together with arms, pouting, tongue out etc. There can be a big contrast between this and a friend next to her simply smiling, like the teens of my era , as most of the other girls do the same poses. Clearly they feel this is the way to look attractive to boys/men . It is depressing to see and makes me worried. I can see that some girls who don’t feel they fit into the hyper sexualised images, might think they align more with the boys.

I do not believe that most people have either a blue soul to match their penis or a pink soul to match their vagina and that only trans and non binary people are special and different, because that is ridiculous.

Quite. And that is what some of these people believe, and what we're (especially women) expected to go along with like our own lives are mediocre and irrelevant and only fit to prop up these special, more highly evolved people.

'I suspect this is why a lot of teenage girls don't want to be women.'

And I don't blame them in the slightest for feeling this way, but adults absolutely have to hold the line on what is reality and what is not. Get them off social media (as much as possible) and into the three dimensional world where they have a chance of seeing that women come in all shapes and sizes and personalities

@Beamur thanks, an interesting read

@Hollyhead

Tell her everyone is non binary because gender is a social construct and to stop thinking she’s so special.

Wow. I sincerely hope the OP is more sensitive in her parenting than to take this approach. Depressing to see so many people agreeing with the sentiment. Invalidation of kids' and young people's feelings/realities can stay with them for a very long time afterwards, though no doubt I'll be deemed a snowflake for saying that.

It's actually your attitude @strawberryapricotpie that is responsible for damaging children and turning them into adults that can't cope in life without being mollycoddled, told they are special and need validation. It's sad you can't see how damaging and detrimental your attitude is. People who say what Holly says are wise, and want children to grow up well-adjusted.

I think going in gung ho on any number of issues would be harmful to anyone's relationship with their child. We really do need to remember that their life is viewed through their own experience and in context with their peers. As parents we know that their experience is still incredibly narrow but our kids don't know that yet.
As a parent, gender ideology scares me because I want my child to make choices whilst they are still growing up that help them develop and discover themselves, but without harm or irreversible damage.
I do still remember the absolute certainty I had in myself and my choices as a teen and how life and experience has taught me that life is actually rather more complicated.
I do agree that we have to listen and not invalidate children's feelings, but we do have a balance to find between choices and boundaries.

I completely agree with you @strawberryapricotpie
It is possible to be a GC feminist and help your daughter through this at the same time without completely belittling her feelings

Wow. I sincerely hope the OP is more sensitive in her parenting than to take this approach. Depressing to see so many people agreeing with the sentiment. Invalidation of kids' and young people's feelings/realities can stay with them for a very long time afterwards, though no doubt I'll be deemed a snowflake for saying that.

I agree the sentiment should be expressed more sensitively, but that doesn't make it untrue.

It is extremely damaging for children to believe that their own personal identity has anything to do with whether they are a boy/girl/man/woman.

I would say social media has a lot to blame and if your kids have access to it without any supervision then that won’t help. It’s a huge (want to say fad) that many teenagers are experiencing but all you can do is support and tighten up on any devices they have access to. The self harm is the thing to worry about. Self harming vids are also all over TikTok. Really needs removing.

@Migrainesbythedozen

It's actually your attitude *@strawberryapricotpie* that is responsible for damaging children and turning them into adults that can't cope in life without being mollycoddled, told they are special and need validation. It's sad you can't see how damaging and detrimental your attitude is. People who say what Holly says are wise, and want children to grow up well-adjusted.

It was the 'stop thinking she’s so special' bit I was primarily objecting to. Trust me, after a lifetime of parental invalidation about my feelings (over a different issue) that continues on even now I'm in my 50s, I can assure you it's as damaging as any words or actions around the gender debate could be. I guess that makes me a snowflake too in some people's eyes, but hey ho.

IMO children can only grow into secure adults in the first place if they are listened to and, yes, validated within reason, in childhood. That's not 'mollycoddling', it's being a loving parent.

Everyone is special, though. Not just these specific children. It's a parent's job to bring up children with a healthy sense of perspective, and good boundaries around other people.

It was the 'stop thinking she’s so special' bit I was primarily objecting to. Trust me, after a lifetime of parental invalidation about my feelings (over a different issue) that continues on even now I'm in my 50s, I can assure you it's as damaging as any words or actions around the gender debate could be. I guess that makes me a snowflake too in some people's eyes, but hey ho.

IMO children can only grow into secure adults in the first place if they are listened to and, yes, validated within reason, in childhood. That's not 'mollycoddling', it's being a loving parent.

As a parent, I think it is my job to teach my son that he is the most important person in the world to me and his dad, but that he can't expect the rest of the world to agree that he is special or that rules which apply to everybody else should not apply to him.

Ultimately, we divide people into men/boys and women/girls in a very limited set of circumstances: in general it's toilets, changing rooms, prisons and sporting categories. It is done for reasons of safety and fairness. By encouraging people to believe that their gender identity (which only exists inside their own head) entitles them to choose whether they are considered a man/boy or a woman/girl (or "non binary" ), we are telling them it is OK for them not to respect the rules that apply to the rest of society because they are unique and special.

On an individual level, that is how to raise an obnoxious brat rather than a well adjusted adult who understands that not everything is about them. On a societal level, it is a recipe for mayhem. Just look at Lia Thomas trampling over the rights of the female swimmers just because Lia's special identity must be validated.

As a parent, I think it is my job to teach my son that he is the most important person in the world to me and his dad, but that he can't expect the rest of the world to agree that he is special or that rules which apply to everybody else should not apply to him.

Exactly. There's a fine line.

Forlorn, DD1 feels similarly scared of unwanted male attention. Since getting cat-called and leered at by blokes in a white van on her way home from school, in school uniform, she's so nervous around anything that looks like workmen. She's adamant that she'll stay with her DGPs when we have building work soon and that she'll wear boys' clothing if she has to come home while the builders are around, and will say she's our son. Makes me so mad that 11yo school girls aren't safe from the male gaze when walking home. She felt so humiliated and powerless.