Pre-teen daughter suddenly identifying as 'non binary'.

[PatButchersEarring]

Such a first world problem, particularly in light of recent world events, but our pre-teen (12 year old) daughter has recently decided that she's non binary, has asked us to call her by a different name and refer to her as they/them.

It is all out of the blue. Up until 1 year or so ago, she was 'tom boy' ish, but generally happy in her own skin. Before this, quite typically 'girly', in the way little girls often are. I would add though, we are aware of gender stereotyping and have always actively sought to make her aware that gender stereotypes are no more than just that.

Now, we have discovered she is self harming and wants to be known by a different (non gendered) name with neutral pronouns etc.

Several of her same age friends are also identifying as the opposite gender from their biological sex. One of her female friends is declaring herself to be a 'gay male' i.e. her biologically female friend identifies as a boy and is attracted to boys. 'He' has already had several (non official) name changes.

Parents of aforementioned children seem to be in support of this.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but my stance is that if you're not comfortable with your 'gender' then it's the perceived gender roles which need to be changed, not the person's identity.

I don't know what to do for the best. Why oh why is this even an issue for a child who has not even gone through puberty?

I really hope this is just a phase. Is it a fashion? The new rebellion? 2022's equivalent of smoking behind the bike sheds?

Anyone else been through this? We have sought counselling for her BTW, specifically in light of the self harm.

Sorry- not really an AIBU.

@Ballcactus

I love it when Mumsnetters reply with this. Go and find it yourself if you so desperately want to debunk it.

The comments on this post are outrageous

@Ballcactus I love it when posters who are caught out in a lie don't have the guts, honour, decency or courage to post their (made up) stats and just say 'go google it'. Way to show how deceitful, cowardly and disingenuous you are. If you were genuine you'd have the stats to show. You LIED. 'Go google it yourself' is the oldest giveaway in the book that you outright LIED and when called on it, can't back it up.

OP in order to take the wind out of her sales I would tell her that all human beings are non-binary. I would say to her "I'm non-binary, your father is non-binary, we're all basically non-binary, so you so you aren't special, you know.

*sails

Transgender and 'non-binary' often encourage self-harm in schools as a way of being 'different'. It is a very, very dangerous ideology. And the shallow and brainwashed people on here who think this is all 'harmless' are deluded and have no idea the amount of harm they are contributing to.

@Hollyhead

Tell her everyone is non binary because gender is a social construct and to stop thinking she’s so special.

This.

Does she think she's biologically male or biologically not anything?

If not then she's fighting social construct and I'd be very much encouraging her to continue dispelling the stereotype of what a woman is by being herself rather than avoiding the idea she's female.

I teach at high school. This is the new thing. One girl in a group 'comes out' as non binary then one by one the rest of the group do. For some it's motivated by mental health issues, some are gay and confused about it (it seems easier to accept being 'straight' and trans than gay - which is depressing) some are just experimenting with identity. Without too much attention for the vast majority once the friendship group disperses drop the idea of being trans non binary. A very small number in my experience carry on and those are usually the ones with serious mental health issues. I do believe there is a condition called gender disphoria which can only be treated through allowing the individual to transition. Those people deserve our support and acceptance. Most non binary/trans people at high school don't have this condition. Just accept your child's request for now OP and hope it blows over without too much attention given to it.

@LittleWhingingWoman When the lawsuits hit who will be held accountable? Absolute scandal.

Yes, and the brainwashed enablers on here, how are they going to feel when their child grows up and turns against them for enabling them and not protecting them? When their child sues them, and/or sues the family GP for allowing these, where are these parents going to look? They will lose their children forever for not protecting them. Going along with the 'binary/non-binary' trans toxicity will mean they will lose their children forever. Because they chose appeasement and image over safeguarding their own innocent children. They threw their children under the bus. The upcoming lawsuits of women/men who have no ability to orgasm, who have messed up bodies and mental health will be catastrophic. The warning signs are all there, everything we've said would happen has happened. When are you people going to wake up and snap out of this? How more warnings from us all do you need?? Are you really this deeply and irreversibly brainwashed?

This is 9n fashion at the moment. I think the best approach is to smile and nod but make little fuss of this. She is trying to fit in. Hopefully it will pass. Get her support for the self harm but again this is now common and unfortunately part and parcel of this.

My 11 year old child said the same to me nearly a year ago (ie when they had just turned 11).

DH and I were surprised, but agreed on one thing. Our job as parents is to love and support our kids. To have their back. If it turned out to be a phase, so what? At least our kids will know they have our unconditional love and support, so they'll trust us with bigger problems when they rock up.

Nb our kid is still non binary a year later and is known solely by their chosen gender neutral name and pronouns in school and with all family and friends. It takes surprisingly little time to adjust.

@Ballcactus wanted a link to show the stats around trans suicide rates and such like - maybe try this one

@Migrainesbythedozen
With the greatest respect, you really don’t know what you are talking about unless you have a child going through this. It is an extremely difficult balancing act for parents. We are trying to protect our children from something that could harm them, yet they are fully prepared to harm themselves in order to get what they want. There is next to no support for parents. We can’t trust anyone and are trying to navigate this alone without destroying the relationship we have with our child.
Pick on someone else - not the parents.

@BanginChoons

I would recommend you support your child. Be there for them. Listen to what they say about how they are feeling and be a sounding board. People self harm when they don't feel supported, valid and safe. You need to be that safe place for them. The gender stuff they will figure out for themselves in their own time. They need to know that you love and accept them for who they are, even though they haven't fully figured out who they are themselves yet.

Couldn't agree more.

My friends are dealing with this. It started with a MTF friend, then the eldest followed by young dd both changed name and parents have to call them they/them. One has short hair and has not worn girly clothes since she was a young teen anyway. Itsbeen fine really. They just let them get on with it. No one freaks if I trip up and say she or use their real names.

@Moonface123

l have only been on this forum one year, naievely thinking like my other female forums it would be a celebration of women, nothing further than the truth, l had absolutely no idea how many women hated being female and the constant victim mode mentality, which l strongly disagree with. This unhealthy attitude has surely affected younger generations way of thinking.

@Moonface123 This is one of the rare most female identified most female supportive and pro-feminist forums there are, most of the others hate being women. So since this is about the only pro-female and pro-feminist forum, your comment is very confusing.

@Beamur you mentioned something around the latest research suggesting it's not necessarily the best approach to be unquestioning in these situations, (if I've got that right) is there anything you can point me towards to read a bit more about that? Thanks

[quote Bearinatree]@Migrainesbythedozen
With the greatest respect, you really don’t know what you are talking about unless you have a child going through this. It is an extremely difficult balancing act for parents. We are trying to protect our children from something that could harm them, yet they are fully prepared to harm themselves in order to get what they want. There is next to no support for parents. We can’t trust anyone and are trying to navigate this alone without destroying the relationship we have with our child.
Pick on someone else - not the parents.[/quote]
@Bearinatree What are you referring to? I'm not picking on supportive parents doing the right thing, I am referring to parents who simply don't care about their children and refuse to do any safeguarding at all and are reinforcing harmful ideology that sets their child up for danger. Maybe re-read my posts before falsely accusing me.

Think this has been posted already but this is a really great post about handling this well and not creating future problems due to the impossibility of changing sex:
www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

www.forbes.com/sites/dawnstaceyennis/2020/07/15/largest-survey-of-transgender-and-nonbinary-youth-says-more-than-half-seriously-considered-suicide/?sh=2643181b3404

Migrainebythedozen, I agree with bearinatree, it's a difficult balancing act, have a bit more compassion for families going through this. Your posts sound very shouty with your use of bold and undelining

*underlining

@Jackieweaverishere
This article is interesting 4thwavenow.com/2021/03/16/dutch-puberty-blocker-pioneer-stop-blindly-adopting-our-research/
It's an opinion piece but links to more information.
The 'dutch protocols' seem to be influential in terms of how clinics and therapists approach affirmation but the researchers behind the original papers have recently spoken out and clarified that their research shouldn't be applied as widely as it was relevant to a very specific cohort.

@Migrainesbythedozen What is the right thing to do? Oppose everything? Or some things? Some children will be happy with a name change and a haircut, others will want new pronouns and binders and still others will want hormones and surgeries. There is no simple answer and my version of coping might look to you like I’m not doing the right thing and appeasing.

My friend's daughter went through this. This is not to alarm you but I am pointing you to this article because she identified herself as gender neutral too, changed her name and was self harming as well. Too much similarity to ignore. It's shocking to read so many mumsnetters telling you to just ignore this

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/feb/03/sailors-death-was-avoidable-how-nhs-mental-health-system-is-failing-children

There is a mental health crisis affecting our young people, exacerbated by the pandemic. Mental health issues come in all shapes and sizes and have a myriad of triggers. In the same way that not all kids who smoke a spliff will have drug issues, not all kids who experiment with gender will end up suicidal. These are difficult times to not only be a teenager but to be raising a teenager. Support and compassion are needed.

@Hollyhead

Tell her everyone is non binary because gender is a social construct and to stop thinking she’s so special.

Absolutely agree - this is what I'd be passing on to her. In a slightly gentler way