To be upset by dd’s behaviour

[Atypicaldancer]

I’ve posted in teenagers but got no replies and I’m feeling a bit upset. This is my problem I think, not dd’s. I just wish I could handle it better. Dd is 15 and autistic. She struggles with social situations and takes a particular dislike to certain people, such as my MIL (DH is dd’s stepdad). MIL was visiting her grandchildren (DH’s two dc) at ours and she had also baked a cake for dd’s birthday.

Dd had just come back from her boyfriend’s house and I asked her if she could say thank you to MIL. Dd didn’t want to, but then she came in, cut a chunk out of the cake, said it was disgusting and told me to fuck off. I’m mortified by her behaviour, but at the same time I know that she will have pressured herself to come in and be sociable, found it too much and lost control.

She finds MIL irritating because she talks a lot and so the issue with the cake will have been about control for Dd.

She’s now shut herself up in her room and has texted me, apologising for not being a good daughter.

I wish I had a better handle on things. She’s autistic, not bad - and I know I shouldn’t worry about how she appears to others. I just wish others could see the kind, funny girl that I can.

I have 2 autistic children - 1 whose most aggressive display since aged 3 (now 16) is a foot stamp, the other (nearly 9) who has required class evacuations/exclusions etc. The nearly 9 is in a specialist school but still struggles with regulation.

And if comparing their presentations aged 3 you would not have guessed correctly who'd have been the disruptive one!

The anxiety with PDA is huge which js why seemingly obvious solutions can backfire quite spectacularly.

@Atypicaldancer
It sounds like you have a really tricky job balancing everything and everyone's feelings however mil is a grown adult that you've explained and apologised to.

Dd has also apologised in her way and that's that.

Don't dwell on it but move on and like you've said learnt from it.

Not autism related but human behaviour related my dh has gone through a bad patch with his parents which has resulted in some deep seated anger and hurt from him yet they're oblivious.

Mil was coming every week a couple of times and dh was like a cat on a hot tin roof before and after was not in a good frame of mind every time.
I suggested it's because home is his safe comfortable place and maybe best to meet out instead for a while to take the pressure off and that feeling of pent up frustration and gives him control of when he's had enough he can just leave where as at home he says he feels trapped by it if she's here.

I can totally relate to your dd feeling like that and as you say normally people would be polite and grit their teeth but she can't do that.

Mil must learn to understand that your dd feels that way and learn how to listen and accept how it is.

Maybe she doesn't need to be at yours quite so much for the minute and hopefully then dd will feel more relaxed and go from there ?

And please stop justifying yourself in here.
Parenting is a hard thing let alone when your child has autism and other disabilities.

I asked her to message MIL and apologise. I thought that was the right thing to do at the time.

I think that was a very sensible request. Have you told DD that you are very proud of her for sending the text and that it was a good thing to do, she did the right thing? Poor DD must feel that everything she does is wrong.

And could you give DD a simple explanation of what MiL might have meant - that MiL hoped she liked the cake, and then DD said she didn't like the cake so MiL felt disappointed? Or would it be better to just let things lie?

@Atypicaldancer

MIL then unfortunately replied ‘OK but I was disappointed’ which DD won’t have understood.

Well it means that MiL doesnt quite understand, just as your dd doesnt. You can explain that to her.

Or, if you dont think that will work, ignore me. You are getting all sorts of conflicting advice on this thread but you know your dd and your MiL best and you are doing your best so dont be so hard on yourself if you dont always get it right.

that wasnt nearly as patronising as it sounds when it was in my head. Apologies OP I really do think you are doing a good job in a tough situation.

Thing is you're her mother, you will go the extra mile to understand what she needs and help her. Other people such as your MIL and her old friends most likely won't. I get that she can't help how she behaves and it's not something that she can be disciplined out of but it sounds like she behaves in ways that come across not just as rude but potentially quite hurtful. Most people are going to distance themselves from someone who treats them poorly, you can't change that.

That's why I'm not convinced that trying to facilitate a relationship with this woman is going to work well for either of them.

@ldontWanna by worked with, I mean supported, in education and supported living. Some of them had additional disabilities too. I worked with them for 8 years. Yes there is a big difference across the spectrum. Some low functioning and non verbal, some highly functioning. They all are taught to mask and try various coping strategies. If they are rude then they are talked to and expected to apologise ( if verbal). If you want your daughter to be independent e.g. move away, she has to learn coping strategies.

@Beautiful3 that’s why I asked Dd to apologise. Which she did.

And tbh MIL could have just thanked DD for apologising rather than having another dig about being disappointed.

There's a lot of discussion over masking and the effect it has on thr mental health of ND people. Autistic burnout etc. A large move against the ABA model of support.

There's a lot of #actuallyautistic advocates out there on Social Media. I can't say all my views align but Harry Thompson PDA Extraordinaire is quite open with his views and experiences.

Yes I’m not convinced that masking is great for dd’s mental health. She used to behave much better and was great at school etc. But she was then very withdrawn at home and self harmed/ took an overdose twice. Her mental health is much better now but she masks less.

@Atypicaldancer I think you’re getting conflicting advice but I think most of it is because people have different views on your daughters capacity. If they think your daughter can behave better, they are obviously asking her to do better.

You are (understandably) defensive and are certain that this is the best your daughter can behave. You have not wavered on this point at all. Any time somebody suggests that you use a different discipline tactic, you insist that using those strategies will lead to her self harming and feeling much worse. You’ve insisted on literally dozens of posts that are trying to get your daughter to be polite or to engage in social niceties would lead her to self harm and spiral.

So you feel very confident that this is the best behaviour she can display at this time? Right?

But if you really truly believe it, then asking her to text your MIL makes no sense. Telling MIL she loved the cake made no sense. Having MIL make the cake made no sense. A lot of your expectations of her and your behaviour makes no sense.

So either you don’t believe what you are saying i.e. Deep down you think she can behave better and she is behaving poorly and that’s why you keep insisting on making her spend time with MIL and engage in social niceties like texting an apology. In which case those posters are correct. Oh she can’t behave any better in which case you really need to acknowledge that you are endlessly and continually setting her up to fail.

I wish you would just acknowledge to yourself at least that your need to make your daughter behave around your MIL has nothing to do with your DD’s welfare. To me this has more to do with blended families and sibling rivalry that it has to do with autism. Your daughter has limited capacity to behave but the emotions that underpin her behaviour to me at least seem very standard for the older child in a blended family with a parent who is trying to make everyone else play happy families with her new family.

Maybe you feel judged by MIL and think that if they are close, she’ll understand that you’re a good parent. Maybe you feel guilty about the chaos DD brings to family functions. Maybe deep down you kind of wish it was just the four of you and MIL. Whatever it is, you’re not evil for thinking it. I wish you’d stop beating yourself up over it, acknowledge it and move on.

Rather than obsessively trying to make MIL and DD get on when neither of them clearly like or understand each other.

I don’t know. I think she can learn over time to regulate her behaviour and be polite. She can’t do it now, but I think learning that behaviour can be possible in the future. I’m not saying she can’t learn - I think she will. Just not through traditional consequences.
MIL chose to make the cake, because she likes doing it (and I think it’s an excuse to see her grandchildren). I will let dd have space from MIL and I think you are right in some of what you say. She doesn’t very often spend time with MIL though.

I just don’t know really. I’m exhausted.

I think it's very easy to almost sleep-walk into this kind of situation.
No one meant any harm.
But now you have a fuller insight you (and your DH) can reset the boundaries.

I have DD just like yours - autism, anxiety, PDA. It is so incredibly hard.

I have a feeling of deja vu from this thread because I often feel like this when talking with friends. Even though they are lovely, they can’t actually imagine themselves into my shoes. Even though they know me, they think it must be something I’m doing or some lack in our family that makes DD act the way she does. I also have children who wouldn’t act like DD does because they don’t have the complex needs that she does.

I come away from speaking to those friends feeling angry and resentful that I am misunderstood. That I am trying my absolute hardest in an untenable situation to keep my DD from further harm in the only ways that seem possible in our situation.

It’s a bit like this thread really. You have had some amazing advice but also some advice with as much empathy as your MIL displays towards your DD.

Stop justifying yourself. To your MIL. To people who will never understand what it’s like to be you and your DD. You are what she needs. She will come through. I am sure my DD will be different once she is an adult. It is being a teenager and autism and PDA that make this period so hard.

That post made me cry. That’s exactly how it feels.
DH just messaged to say that MIL is coming over with some late Christmas presents from some friends she visited at the weekend. I don’t think the timing is ideal, but Dd is aware and has said she will stay in her room.

She sounds a lot like my older sister!

My sister says whatever is in her head, however rude/nasty it is - especially when she's overwhelmed.

Couple of years back, I arranged to meet her at the train station to go out for the day with her. I hadn't seen her for 3 or 4 months. First, LITERAL first thing she says to me?

"I really HATE your trousers!"
Nice.

OP your judgment seems pretty good to me. Trial and error is where it's at. Our kids don't come with instruction manuals and half the instructions for NT kids don't work - and nobody knows which half.

I think you're probably right that over time she can learn to regulate, or at least to self-regulate better than she does now. And to my mind there's no harm in taking "where she is now" and seeing if she will go a small step further than that, like sending an apology text. No-one knows how many of those small steps she will be capable of taking or how far they will take her.

If DD's attempt at being polite succeeds then she will learn from her success. So it's a pity MiL didn't realise just how valuable that apology was and accept it with grace. But that's how it is.

DH just messaged to say that MIL is coming over

To be honest I wouldn't be too chuffed with MiL just inviting herself over like that and not checking with you, after such an upset with DD. Mil isn't DD's grandmother is she? You said it was "easier" if DD would be polite and friendly. Which made me wonder, easier for who? Is there any tension between you and DH over MiL's visits or DD's behaviour during those visits?

Dd is aware and has said she will stay in her room.

That seems sensible, though I wouldn't encourage MiL to stay long.

@Atypicaldancer

I don’t know. I think she can learn over time to regulate her behaviour and be polite. She can’t do it now, but I think learning that behaviour can be possible in the future. I’m not saying she can’t learn - I think she will. Just not through traditional consequences. MIL chose to make the cake, because she likes doing it (and I think it’s an excuse to see her grandchildren). I will let dd have space from MIL and I think you are right in some of what you say. She doesn’t very often spend time with MIL though.

She probably will in time and in certain situations. But it will take time... real time. It's like learning Hebrew from scratch. The letters go the wrong away, against her very own instincts. There's no familiarity,no context, no previous knowledge to really draw on. They look entirely different from anything you know and they require different skills to do it right.

Sadly, her self regulation might still appear rude to some like going quiet or removing herself from a situation or focusing on one sensory thing instead of "paying" attention. People might still get upset and huff and puff. But that's their problem, not yours and DD's. As long as she's making progress,as long as she's learning, as long as she's safe and happy, that's what matters and you're both doing well.

Just drop the expectations for you and for her to fit in and gain the approval of the NT world. You'll both be happier and the process will be easier if she's not set up against an unrealistic benchmark.

"If you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree it will spend it's whole life believe he is stupid."

Dd has been v withdrawn today. Hasn’t gone to school, come out of her bedroom or eaten family meals with us. She does seem to be struggling a bit at the moment.

She’s not wanting to go to school tomorrow and just sits in one room all day. It’s not what I wanted for her.

I think it’s an excuse to see her grandchildren

I may be misreading but I'm getting an impression that underneath that nice generous puppyish exteriors maybe MiL's a bit difficult? Using a cake for DD as an "excuse to "see her grandchildren" (you don't mean DD? ), telling DH she's coming round to deliver Christmas presents (hardly an urgent errand, Christmas is long past) instead of asking you if it's OK to come over, and poking DD after she apologised. And if she's tiresome one of the hardest things to face in our own children is a reaction we've suppressed in ourselves.

Dd has been v withdrawn today. Hasn’t gone to school, come out of her bedroom or eaten family meals with us. She does seem to be struggling a bit at the moment.

Disrupting DD has a lot of consequences. DD may need routine and predictability (not everyone with PDA does, but some do). Coming round at short notice and confining DD to her room when this is DD's home, isn't wonderful behaviour. But your MiL doesn't seem to think that the effect she has on DD should be a consideration. Maybe MiL pushes her luck?

I don’t think MIL understands at all. To be fair, she did ask DH if she could come over first, but it doesn’t help. DH is very close to his mum so he won’t ever see any wrong in her. She’s not a bad lady at all - she just doesn’t understand autism. She once suggested that Dd was just a typical teenager. I teach teenagers - she isn’t.

I have only ever lost my temper with MIL once. Dd was assaulted by a boy she knew and the police were coming over to speak to Dd. The first thing MIL asked DH was about her gc. Would they be there when the police came over etc - rather than asking how Dd was. I was so upset with her. But she’s not usually so bad - she can be really helpful and kind.

DD’s biggest issue is with school. She just says she won’t go in tomorrow but won’t tell me why. This isn’t unusual - her attendance is awful, but she does seem particularly withdrawn today and has just been in bed all day. It can’t be good for her. She just says ‘don’t know’ when I ask her anything.

DH thinks I need some help because my anxiety is through the roof at the moment. He seems to think counselling might help. I can’t see why. My worry is for Dd and counselling for me won’t fix that.

I suppose what some posters have failed to see when they have mentioned ‘rudeness’ is that Dd is deeply unhappy, isolated and confused. It can’t be much fun to be her at the moment.

@Atypicaldancer

I don’t think MIL understands at all. To be fair, she did ask DH if she could come over first, but it doesn’t help. DH is very close to his mum so he won’t ever see any wrong in her. She’s not a bad lady at all - she just doesn’t understand autism. She once suggested that Dd was just a typical teenager. I teach teenagers - she isn’t.

I have only ever lost my temper with MIL once. Dd was assaulted by a boy she knew and the police were coming over to speak to Dd. The first thing MIL asked DH was about her gc. Would they be there when the police came over etc - rather than asking how Dd was. I was so upset with her. But she’s not usually so bad - she can be really helpful and kind.

DD’s biggest issue is with school. She just says she won’t go in tomorrow but won’t tell me why. This isn’t unusual - her attendance is awful, but she does seem particularly withdrawn today and has just been in bed all day. It can’t be good for her. She just says ‘don’t know’ when I ask her anything.

DH thinks I need some help because my anxiety is through the roof at the moment. He seems to think counselling might help. I can’t see why. My worry is for Dd and counselling for me won’t fix that.

I suppose what some posters have failed to see when they have mentioned ‘rudeness’ is that Dd is deeply unhappy, isolated and confused. It can’t be much fun to be her at the moment.

Don't dismiss counselling. It can help you find your own coping mechanisms,identify triggers and build your confidence.

More importantly it can be a safe space where you can let out all your anger,pain ,worry,exasperation,exhaustion etc without fear of being judged, having your words twisted or analysed to then be used to criticise you like it happened on this thread. Just being able to offload and talk freely and honestly can be a massive help.

Were these conversations you had with DD face to face? Sometimes is easier for kids to open up through text,or when doing a different activity or driving. It's obvious something is going on and if she's getting low that can be a (dangerous) slippery slope given her history.

I don’t think MIL understands at all. To be fair, she did ask DH if she could come over first, but it doesn’t help. DH is very close to his mum so he won’t ever see any wrong in her

Well she did ask if she could come over. Asking isn't wrong. If you do not want MIL to come to the house then you need to tell your DH that she cannot visit. Which may very well cause different problems...