Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

@TheKeatingFive

It wouldn’t be at the expense of anything.

That's bollocks and you know it. So men are allowed to father as many children as they like, wash their hands of them, and there's no adverse effects on the children, mothers or society?

Are you always this thick or is it just that you've dug yourself into this rabbit hole and now have to pretend to be 🤔

Really no need to be rude just because we have different viewpoints.

I stand by the comment that at the time the decision would be made, it wouldn’t be at the expense of anything because it wouldn’t. The child doesn’t yet exist and unborn foetuses don’t have rights. The woman’s rights would be the same.

[quote Katie2017]@BobLep0nge Why is a woman in the position of being pregnant with a child she didn't want in the fist place? Why is she having sex if she doesn't want to get pregnant, or why has she not been sterilised? If we are saying all this for men who don't want kids we should hold women to the same standards. A woman also has far more options she could be on the pill and ask the guy to wear a condom and if he refuses keep her legs closed. It's really quite simple, I've never had an unwanted pregnancy yet.[/quote]
You may not realise this but there is a type of domestic abuse where men keep getting their women pregnant. I've heard of cases of women having their implants ripped out of them with pliers to facilitate this.

Women in difficult relationships have little agency and that includes over the choice to have sex and the choice to use contraception. Just FYI.

The child doesn’t yet exist and unborn foetuses don’t have rights.

So you still haven't figured out that unborn children become living children? I think my 'rude' comments are even more pertinent than ever, frankly.

The woman’s rights would be the same.

No, because 'if you have it I'm washing my hands of it' is a form of coercion, whether you care to admit it or not.

Men cannot have the same choices over an unborn child because to do so would give them unethical agency over women's bodies.

Once the child is born, their rights should be prioritised.

I loved the way you were pulling women up on their 'responsibilities' in an earlier post, btw, when everything you've said here is in favour of men having more rights and no responsibilities at all. You could t make this shit up

So you still haven't figured out that unborn children become living children? I think my 'rude' comments are even more pertinent than ever, frankly.

It’s irrelevant to the point though.

I loved the way you were pulling women up on their 'responsibilities' in an earlier post, btw, when everything you've said here is in favour of men having more rights and no responsibilities at all. You could t make this shit up

You are reading what you want and not what I’m actually saying. I’m not saying men should have no responsibility, I’m saying they should have the same responsibility as a woman has as far as biologically possible.

a) because he should have worn a condom or taken the male pill or both.
b} because he doesn't have to go through the pain and emotional hell of an abortion.
When a man can get pregnant and have an abortion let me know.

It’s irrelevant to the point though.

Of course it's not irrelevant 🤦🏻‍♀️

@FairyCakeWings

If only there were a way that men could prevent the pregnancy they don't want in the first place, or they knew before that pregnancy could result from sex, leading to a child that they're required to contribute towards the support of for the next 18 years......

If only women know this, then there would be no need for abortion clinics right?

I wasn't aware this thread was discussing women using abortion as a form of birth control?

I thought it was discussing if a man has the right to have consequence free sex by virtue of being sanctioned walking away from the concequences and leaving them for someone else to deal with?

Women are actively discouraged from using abortion as birth control, not least because of the health risks associated. Criteria has to be met and two dr's (I think) agreeing that the criteria is met. You don't just walk in and say I need to solve my mistake.
No doubt it does happen, and yes that needs to be addressed, but the sole reason abortions exist isn't because some women don't fancy being parents, it's because there are significant health risks associated with pregnancy and birth, both mental and physical and termination of the pregnancy is the only way to avoid those risks happening. They exist to ensure women who are made pregnant through rape or coercion are not forced into continuing the pregnancy.

Abortion does not solely exist to solve unwanted pregnancy because the woman doesn't want a child that she contributed towards making by her action/inaction.
This idea of a man signing away his responsibility would solely be because they don't want a child they helped create because of their action/inaction.

It is because we’re talking about an early pregnancy choice, where both a man and a woman should have the same right to choose not to become parents in future.

The fact that pregnancies turn into people is irrelevant when it comes to fighting for women’s abortion rights, so it should be irrelevant in this discussion too.

@FairyCakeWings

It is because we’re talking about an early pregnancy choice, where both a man and a woman should have the same right to choose not to become parents in future.

The fact that pregnancies turn into people is irrelevant when it comes to fighting for women’s abortion rights, so it should be irrelevant in this discussion too.

Yeah, it’s not the man’s choice at that point though. That ship sailed when his reproductive material left his body. He should choose to be more careful with it if he doesn’t want to become a parent.

@FairyCakeWings

It is because we’re talking about an early pregnancy choice, where both a man and a woman should have the same right to choose not to become parents in future.

The fact that pregnancies turn into people is irrelevant when it comes to fighting for women’s abortion rights, so it should be irrelevant in this discussion too.

No it really shouldn't.

Was the OP not about stigma surrounding men who walk away from the children they've created? So, therefore it's about a living/breathing child.

It’s irrelevant to the point though.

No it isn't. Either the child is unborn and therefore dependent on the mother for life or alive and requiring support. There is no point where a man walking away doesn't take away from someone else's rights.

I’m not saying men should have no responsibility, I’m saying they should have the same responsibility as a woman has as far as biologically possible.

A) that's just a stupid impossibility, take it up with mother nature (could you mention the risk of death/disability for the mother while you're at it, ta).

B) you aren't even arguing that because you're advocating men walk away without even the physical and mental impacts of abortion.

No it isn't. Either the child is unborn and therefore dependent on the mother for life or alive and requiring support. There is no point where a man walking away doesn't take away from someone else's rights.

We will have to disagree on that then, because unborn babies doesn’t have rights so there are no rights that exist to be able to take them away from anyone else in early pregnancy.

@FairyCakeWings

No it isn't. Either the child is unborn and therefore dependent on the mother for life or alive and requiring support. There is no point where a man walking away doesn't take away from someone else's rights.

We will have to disagree on that then, because unborn babies doesn’t have rights so there are no rights that exist to be able to take them away from anyone else in early pregnancy.

Unborn babies are eventually born. Did you get all that?

😂 yes, I did, thanks!

Don’t worry though, babies that have been born can’t be aborted, so men should be allowed to walk away from them either.

Shouldn’t!!

I can't believe this thread.
Are women seriously suggesting men should be able to go round having sex without a single backward glance at any resulting children? And that's just fine?

@FairyCakeWings

It is because we’re talking about an early pregnancy choice, where both a man and a woman should have the same right to choose not to become parents in future.

The fact that pregnancies turn into people is irrelevant when it comes to fighting for women’s abortion rights, so it should be irrelevant in this discussion too.

But they can't have the same rights.

If a woman decides they don't want a baby they can opt for abortion, meaning there is no baby to support. In an ideal world obviously the father is fully involved in the decision but ultimately it's the woman's choice.

If a man decides he doesn't want to be a father but the mother goes ahead with the pregnancy, there is a baby to support.

It's not equal. It will never be equal, so going on about men and women having "the same rights" is just utter nonsense.

And you are absolutely fine about men doing this to you? So you think its absolutely fine your father completely abandoned you? Because he just wanted sex and fuck you you result from this sex, why should he care? Do you even think you have the right to know who he is or does he own absolutely nothing to children he didn't want?

I don't see it as bad luck at all, my children are the best thing that happened to me. I never once said I wanted to avoid these pregnancies that's something you formulated in your own head to try and argue your point. My point was that these things do happen even when you feel like you are being careful. I don't know anyone who uses condoms in a stable relationship but each to their own.

I don't know anyone who uses condoms in a stable relationship but each to their own.

If you're in a stable relationship and leave over a pregnancy, that's not very stable. But not only leave, but have no contact and outright refuse any contributions.

If that's what any man would do in a 'stable relationship' then he needs to still wear condoms.

You say it like it's unfathomable to wear condoms. Male pleasure is so important, it's just ridiculous. Yes, wear condoms.

I only know what contraception a handful of people I know use. It’s not exactly standard dinner party conversation.

Really you pays your money and you makes your choice.

I used condoms between DC1 and DC2 . If it is absolutely critical to avoid pregnancy then you use everything at your disposal.

IME a termination in a stable relationship often means the end of the relationship as well.

The idea that men should have no responsibility for unwanted children is not a new one. The 19th century Bastardy Laws were based on the same premise - poor, unfortunate man seduced by a wicked, vicious, immoral woman who should therefore bear the consequences of their 'vice' alone.

And you are absolutely fine about men doing this to you? So you think its absolutely fine your father completely abandoned you? Because he just wanted sex and fuck you you result from this sex, why should he care? Do you even think you have the right to know who he is or does he own absolutely nothing to children he didn't want

I don't care that my dad didn't want me, and I don't care that my mum didn't chase him for money. I don't care that I've never seen a photo. I know a name, I've never looked for him. He's nothing to me and I don't miss what I never had.

Other people might not feel the same, but i harbour no resentments to him, I'm just indifferent. He's a nobody to me.

Men have every right not to have or want a child BUT....

They should say so upfront, not say maybe for 10 years and then change their mind.

And they should use a condom or have the snip if they don't want a child. Not wait until one is already on the way and then whine about how unfair it is.