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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Men should have the right to not want a baby

999 replies

user57639206 · 23/02/2022 17:51

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

OP posts:
YouHaveYourFathersBreasts · 23/02/2022 18:06

@user57639206

Again to clarify, I do not endorse forced abortions or pregnancy on any woman.

I'm say why can a man not just walk away without stigma???

Umm men do walk away without stigma. Lots of them. I can think of loads of men I know/have known who have done just that. People might have thought they were cunts to begin with but society largely forgives them. Women who do that (I know some of those but not as many) aren’t forgiven so readily. Neither are those who choose abortion. There’s plenty of so-called forward thinking societies who not only want to make it/keep it illegal, they refer to the women themselves as murderers. There’s stigma. Tonnes of it.

Men come out of these scenarios in better positions than women do, always have probably always will.

Googlecanthelpme · 23/02/2022 18:06

This is where the OP realises she’s only talking about a very small % of counties which allow for “relatively” straight forward family planning.
Lots of countries including one right next to ours doesn’t allow them by law.

It must be quite nice to be this entitled that critical thought has never a necessity.

Men CAN choose to not have a child when they invent a male contraception which would prevent it. But they wouldn’t take it anyway.

So in conclusion if there is any part of you which doesn’t want a child, don’t have sex.

A decent society can’t allow fathers to legally abandon their children, the mental impact of that upon the child would be devastating.

WabbitsAndWeasels · 23/02/2022 18:07

@user57639206

At what point did I say she should be forced to abort? Maybe re-read and engage your brain?

My point is if he doesn't want to have a child either at all, or right now, surely he should be allowed to walk away without a stigma? Just as a woman rightly can abort without stigma

I do believe a man should be able to walk away from the relationship with a child but don't think he should be able to abandon all responsibilities for that child. If a man wants to walk away from that relationship (with the child) it's probably in the long term best interests of that child tbh, it's far less impactful for the child if that parent was never in their life. However that child exists, that child should be financially taken care of and this should be enforceable like other forms of debt collection.

My married parents split when I was 2, I get the feeling as an adult he never really wanted kids (I'm his middle child, my mum's first) and went to great lengths to avoid paying anything or seeing us except at his work (a pub, he was also an alcoholic). When do you have this no stigma cut off? During pregnancy? Early years? Any time before 18?

By all means allow men to abandon their rights and access to their children (there's already so little stigma) but those children still deserve some of their financial costs supported. It might make some people more responsible if this could be collected through debt collection agencies.

OneTiredMam · 23/02/2022 18:07

YANBU. I've always thought it's unfair.

EveryAvenue · 23/02/2022 18:07

Also, women are judged for having abortion. We shouldn’t be, it’s 2022 but we are.

I know I was.

EmmaH2022 · 23/02/2022 18:07

"And yes, on the one hand it is pretty harsh that, for example, after a one night stand, a man might be left paying for it forever. I once worked with a man in that situation. "

I don't think it is harsh. I do think there should be more awareness that condoms aren't enough. The Ross Geller clip should be mandatory viewing in schools.

Speaking of schools OP....

grey12 · 23/02/2022 18:07

@Googlecanthelpme apparently there was/is a male contraceptive but it has side effects akin to the female one and so men won't take it. They won't even talk about it!!

JellybabyGina87 · 23/02/2022 18:08

Use a condom, don't have sex. Accept that if you do have sex there is a chance of pregnancy. Men do walk away from pregnant women without stigma. It happened to me and he escaped unscathed as no one knows he has a child! His loss.

hellithurt · 23/02/2022 18:08

@user57639206

At what point did I say she should be forced to abort? Maybe re-read and engage your brain?

My point is if he doesn't want to have a child either at all, or right now, surely he should be allowed to walk away without a stigma? Just as a woman rightly can abort without stigma

Of course he can choose, condoms or vasectomy should sort that!
LondonWolf · 23/02/2022 18:08

The entire point of sex at its most basic level is that it's for procreation. Every time you have it there a risk of pregnancy. Patriarchal Society has done a great job of separating that fact from actually having sex to the point that many men think they've as much right to a risk free shag as they do buying a pint of beer in the pub - it's just part of a good night out right?

Well no, sex results in pregnancy. If you are 100% sure you don't want a baby then don't have sex. If a pregnancy does result then the woman decides because it's in her body and you could have prevented it from the outset.

Ncwinc · 23/02/2022 18:08

You do understand that no one is going round stealing sperm from unsuspecting men at gunpoint? No one is making them have unprotected sex. Once they’ve ejaculated into a woman’s body, what happens to that genetic contribution is out of their control.

OneTiredMam · 23/02/2022 18:08

Condoms aren't 100 percent though.... Hmm

GiveMyHeadPeaceffs · 23/02/2022 18:08

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

This is such a Fucking gormless, tedious, dickpandering debate. Men do have the right to not want a baby, they have the right to wear condoms, practice no penis in vagina sex, abstinence or get a vasectomy. Once babies are born THEY have rights. One of which is knowing who their biological parents are and being financially supported by them.
What they said.
HeckyPeck · 23/02/2022 18:09

If he walks away completely, that leaves a child. A child who exists.
If a woman had an abortion, and then went on to have a child that she left with the father and refused have anything to do with or pay maintenance for, most people would judge her more for the second than the first. Rightly imo, I don’t judge people for abortion but would for abandoning a child.

Exactly this!

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 23/02/2022 18:09

@PeeAche

Of course you aren't promoting forced abortions, OP. And yes, on the one hand it is pretty harsh that, for example, after a one night stand, a man might be left paying for it forever. I once worked with a man in that situation.

But they do have choices... condoms are a very reliable form of barrier protection when used correctly. All humans can make poor choices. (Like swallowing the line that she's on the pill, or getting so drunk that the condom doesn't make it into play.) Those choices have consequences.

I personally would never hold a man financially and parentally accountable for a one-night-baby that I decided to keep but millions of women do and I don't judge them either.

My niece is a One night stand baby. The father (BIL) has continued his life care free. Her mother has had lifelong medical issues, had to drop out of university (finally completing her degree when DN was at Secondary school) and had her whole life changed.

The least BIL cando is pay that measly amount of child support...

Ncwinc · 23/02/2022 18:09

’dickpandering’

Yes.

hellithurt · 23/02/2022 18:09

@user57639206

At what point did I say she should be forced to abort? Maybe re-read and engage your brain?

My point is if he doesn't want to have a child either at all, or right now, surely he should be allowed to walk away without a stigma? Just as a woman rightly can abort without stigma

I think you're the one that needs to engage their brain if you don't know how a man can avoid a baby they don't want Grin
Iknowitisheresomewhere · 23/02/2022 18:11

I am not quite sure I understand.

What about this scenario?

Man and woman want sex. Neither of them use contraception. Woman asks, before sex 'but what if I get pregnant - I know I could never have an abortion'. Man says - well, wouldn't be the end of the world, I want to have a family at some point. Man and woman have sex, woman gets pregnant.

Has the man now lost the right to change his mind because of what he said pre-sex? But someone who hadn't said that would be able to walk away post-sex? In which case you would need some legal remedy to decide who had said what?

And what if the woman would have had an abortion if she thought she was going to be a single mother, but the relationship continued until she was (say) 5 months pregnant. Does the man have the right to change his mind at that point?

RedCandyApple · 23/02/2022 18:11

If you choose to keep a baby from a ONS or when the father says he doesn’t want to be involved you are have to accept you will be raising that child alone. You can’t then be angry when he sticks by his word.

pollypokcet · 23/02/2022 18:11

Don't have to raise it

Do have to pay for it

Too fecking bad - Fatherhood is a choice, letting your kid go without is not

FedUpOfLighteningCrotch · 23/02/2022 18:11

I completely agree.

A man can literally be forced to contribute to a baby he doesn’t want. It doesn’t work equally for women because they have the rights to their body.

If she doesn’t want a baby and she does, she can abort regardless of his opinion. Which is fair, it’s her body.

If she does want a baby, he doesn’t - she can keep the baby and then force him to contribute to that child, no matter what.

The fact is men have 0 choice. And I’ve been on these MN threads before where users think it’s as black and white as “don’t have sex then” - but we’re talking about two people, perhaps in a relationship and both absolutely consenting to having sex, the woman knows the risks as much as the man and still the choice in unequal.

Men can’t dictate what a woman does with her body, but they should at least be able to dictate what he does with his wallet in the case of an unwanted pregnancy.

Lavenderosemary · 23/02/2022 18:13

I totally agree with you OP.

Chloemol · 23/02/2022 18:13

Actually what you are saying is women have to right to terminate a pregnancy or continue

The man doesn’t, and if he doesn’t wants a baby he still remains responsible

If he doesn’t want a baby then he is responsible for contraception. If he is not prepared to do that then he accepts the consequences

GabriellaMontez · 23/02/2022 18:13

@user57639206

Again to clarify, I do not endorse forced abortions or pregnancy on any woman.

I'm say why can a man not just walk away without stigma???

Any parent, mother or father who walks away from their baby should face equal stigma. As it happens, women face far more stigma. Or do you think a woman should be able to walk away without stigma too?
ScrambledSmegs · 23/02/2022 18:13

*I'm just saying I think men should be able to walk away from an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy but everyone jumps down their throat.^

Men do this all the time. Very few people give them shit for this - it's all "she got pregnant on purpose to trap me" as if and "it's not my baby, she was cheating" get a dna test then and the poor diddums is pitied.