Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

Well it’s not fair. You’re right. It’s just one situation where the law has decided a woman’s biology and right to choose trumps a man’s. Boo boo. Anyway, a previous poster is right. Men bugger off with impunity all the time. It’s not actually that difficult for them.

What would be in the best interest of children would be to not be born if one parent does not want / isn't ready for a child

The reality is that biology trumps fairness. so women get 100% of the decision making when it comes to this unless you believe that sex should only be for procreation. Women get to decide if they will be a parent and they get to decide if the man will become a parent. They get to decide 100% for both people. That is just the reality of biology.

When a man does want a child / to be a parent - he also doesn't have to deal with the pregnancy, childbirth or breastfeeding. That also is just the reality of biology and not fair or equal.

wonderwoman26

So a 2 tier system, with deserving and undeserving children?

Yanbu if a man doesnt want a baby then he has the right to walk away but this needs to be from conception not a few years later when he decides he cant be arsed or its too hard. Men have a choice too. I do think they should ensure their own form of protection by either condoms or vasectomy and not just expect it all to be on the woman. A guy can end up paying child maintenance and having to deal with the backlash of not seeing a child he made clear he was not ready for or wanting to begin with. Provided of course he made this clear to the mother from the get go and was using contraception himself i think it can be unfair in these circumstances. Also to the child aswell who may grow to feel resentment and unloved.

@Nailsbythesea

Engage your brain you can’t force a woman to do anything with her body she does want.

He doesn’t want a baby wear a condom and double up with something else - or better still don’t have sex until you are prepared to take responsibility as nothing is 100%

But if you say that it's unresonable for men to say they don't want a baby are you not telling them what to do with their body?

@user57639206

I think you're missing the point.

A woman gets pregnant : she doesn't want the pregnancy, she aborts. No one's calling her a arsehole, irresponsible or awful.

A woman gets pregnant : she wants to continue the pregnancy, the man doesn't and wants to walk away. He's called an arsehole, irresponsible or awful.

I AGREE it's a woman's right to do whatever the hell she wants to do with her body, I've done it twice! Once for medical reasons and the other because I just wasn't ready. But why can a man not have the same rights?

And as for saying he should wrap it up, or not have sex. Do you say the same about women who have unplanned pregnancies? That's it's their fault for having sex in the first place and they should have used all the contraception? Pretty sure that's a no.

I think the difference is that if a women decides she doesn’t want a baby, and aborts a pregnancy, there is NO child. If a man decides he doesn’t want to a baby, and the pregnancy goes ahead, there IS a child.

So at the point where there is an actual person alive, it’s not acceptable to walk away from a child, and have nothing to do with them. It’s hurtful and irresponsible.

We should be striving for equality in rights as much as we can

But it is equal. If a mother abandons her child she needs to at least pay money towards that child. If a father abandons his child child then he needs to at least pay money towards that child.

What is unequal about that?

I don’t quite get this thread, and I’m a man. I understand exactly what you’re asking, but this ‘stigma’ you speak of is nowhere near as apparent as you seem to think it is. In fact, it’s only in recent decades that men actually have had to start taking responsibility for their actions and I still wouldn’t go as far as saying they are judged massively by society for not wanting to participate in fatherhood.

In many countries and especially where I live (N.Ireland) it was only women who suffered from the ‘stigma’ of being a single mother if the father walked away - in the 50s here they were treated like lepers and societal outcasts. Hence why so many babies in those years were abandoned or given up for adoption. Men have never had to suffer that kind of demonisation.

On a related note, part of me wants to give my side of the species a kick up the arse every time I read a thread on here about some feckless father who has disappeared, or didn’t use protection then moans about the pregnancy, or similar. Whatever happened to being a man in the ideal of sense of the term and taking responsibility? And being a parent kids can admire and look up to? It’s feels like more and more fathers just don’t have any pride any more.

I absolutely agree, why should the poor man have to pay for the child he created?

Same way as if someone crashes into the OP’s car and causes her huge financial loss, she wouldn’t dream of making them pay (hey, it was just an accident and they don’t want to be made to foot the bill).

Sure op… men can keep their dicks in their pants to 100% ensure they don’t have a baby.

That’s a great idea for any man who doesn’t want to have a baby.
“Dick in pants”. The 100% fail safe to ensure you will not have a baby.

But if you say that it's unresonable for men to say they don't want a baby are you not telling them what to do with their body?

No. Telling someone not to engage in behaviour that leads to unwanted consequences is not the same thing as telling someone what to do with their body.

@wonderwoman26

I think what your fundamentally saying is correct OP I agree, however I do also appreciate it is more complicated than that.

If a women is able to get pregnant then that means there are 2 people having unprotected sex (excusing the minority where BC fails). In the case of a one night stand, it is both the women and man being irresponsible to create a pregnancy. And whilst irresponsible, if a man doesn’t want to have a child and the women decides to keep it then yes - he should be able to walk away. They both made an irresponsible choice and neither should be forced into doing something they don’t want to do.

Again, in a relationship - if a man doesn’t want a child but is in a relationship with someone that gets pregnant then it would either be a BC fail which I believe the man should step up.
If it is a case of being baby trapped (we can all pretend it doesn’t happen but unfortunately it does) then no the man shouldn’t be forced to be a father.

But the difficulty is proving any of those, so in theory yes a man should have a choice as it takes 2 to procreate, but there is so many grey areas it’s not a simple black or white answer x

So, make sure the kid suffers then? That’ll teach the mother for being female!

*If she does want a baby, he doesn’t - she can keep the baby and then force him to contribute to that child, no matter what.
*
Child maintenance is for the child's benefit it's not a penalty on irresponsible men. They SHOULD pay maintenance. Do you seriously disagree with that? The options are...

• maintenance
• no maintenance and child lives In poverty (so men don't have to pay)
• forced or incentivised abortion (so men don't have to pay)

Don't ejaculate if you can't cough up - tissues are very affordable these days.

“ A woman gets pregnant : she doesn't want the pregnancy, she aborts. No one's calling her a arsehole, irresponsible or awful.”

Are you kidding?
Has the single mother stigma bypassed you completely? Women are judged far more than men in this respect.

If a man isn’t wanting a baby then he needs to make sure his sperm cannot make a woman pregnant. Simple as that.

Children have the right to be financially supported by both their parents.

At the point at which the child exists, it's not about the mother's rights or the father's rights - it's about the child's rights.

Within couples, every day, decisions are made about terminations due to the feelings of the woman AND the man. I don’t think it’s true to say men don’t have a right to say they don’t want a baby. They do. But nobody has the right to walk away from a responsibility that arises as a natural consequence to their behaviour or actions, man or woman.

So at the point where there is an actual person alive, it’s not acceptable to walk away from a child, and have nothing to do with them. It’s hurtful and irresponsible.

But isn’t that better for a child? An absent parent rather than one that doesn’t like them let alone love them and will likely treat them badly.

if a women gets pregnant by accident/contraception failure...etcand doesn't want it, she has 2 choices, abort, or carry to term and adopt out.

If a man gets a woman pregnant by accident, he is bound by the womans decision.

I think men should have the right to walk away, to sign over parental responsibility...etc if they can prove the condom was sabotaged/sexual assault...etc.

However, they also have the option to begin with, to not stick their penis in a fertile womans vagina, and make it zero chance of anything like that happening.

It comes down to being responsible for the bit of your biology that makes babies... and the only way a man can ensure his bit of biology isn't involved is not to get it anywhere near a womans vagina in the first place.

😂😂 They have a choice it’s called being safe and putting on protection.

@Midlifemusings

What would be in the best interest of children would be to not be born if one parent does not want / isn't ready for a child

The reality is that biology trumps fairness. so women get 100% of the decision making when it comes to this unless you believe that sex should only be for procreation. Women get to decide if they will be a parent and they get to decide if the man will become a parent. They get to decide 100% for both people. That is just the reality of biology.

When a man does want a child / to be a parent - he also doesn't have to deal with the pregnancy, childbirth or breastfeeding. That also is just the reality of biology and not fair or equal.

I know people who were unwanted by one or more parents and they certainly don't feel like not existing would be in their best interests.

Statements like that contain a lot of projection.

Men have the right to say no to having a baby. They can abstain from PIV sex, they can get vasectomies, they can use condoms correctly.

They have many many options of open to them.

What men do not have and never ever should have, is a say over a what happens to a woman’s body without her consent.

And they do have a choice, plenty of men walk away never to be seen again.

@user57639206

I think you're missing the point.

A woman gets pregnant : she doesn't want the pregnancy, she aborts. No one's calling her a arsehole, irresponsible or awful.

A woman gets pregnant : she wants to continue the pregnancy, the man doesn't and wants to walk away. He's called an arsehole, irresponsible or awful.

I AGREE it's a woman's right to do whatever the hell she wants to do with her body, I've done it twice! Once for medical reasons and the other because I just wasn't ready. But why can a man not have the same rights?

And as for saying he should wrap it up, or not have sex. Do you say the same about women who have unplanned pregnancies? That's it's their fault for having sex in the first place and they should have used all the contraception? Pretty sure that's a no.

I get what you're saying @user57639206 but you shoulda known better than to post it on here!!!

YABU.

A man doesn’t want a baby so he needs to ensure he doesn’t get a woman pregnant eg vasectomy, condom etc. Both together and the odds are exceptionally unlikely.

A woman doesn’t want a baby and she has more options including a termination.

So both men and woman have the right to choose, it’s just the stage a man is able to decision to earlier in the process than the woman’s.

Meh. Are we being asked to do someones A-level ethics homework for them?

Men already have the right not to want a baby. FWIW women also have that right.

Let's ignore unwanted sex leading to pregnancy and assume that this is a man and a woman who are in a relationship.

They want to have sex. Neither of them wants a baby. They don't know 100% for sure what the other one wants, and so the obvious choice for each of them is to use the most reliable contraception available. So they are doubled up. The chances -given that they use the contraception correctly - are very low that sex will result in a child are very small. But not zero.

Best case for both? no pregnancy
Best case for him? either no pregnancy or pregnancy and she has an abortion.
Best case for her? either no pregnancy or pregnancy and she has an abortion
Shitty case for both of them? pregnancy and she doesn't want (for whatever reason) to have an abortion. Neither of them has the right to walk away scot free. There is the adoption option and assuming they are on the same page with that, it's not the absolute worst case it is not entirely risk free in terms of her health, and the chance that having given birth she decides to hang onto the baby.

In that last case - there is no way that man should morally, ethically or legally be allowed to walk away with nary a backward glance.

So sure. Men should absolutely be allowed not to want a baby. But. The only way for him to be 100% sure that he doesn't get one is to not have sex.