To think I shouldn't have to pay to see my mum

[MrsBertBibby]

Just that. "Freedom" is no such thing for care home residents. Imprisoned and deprived of family and now, if we want to visit, we must shell out £20 for a test.

Is it unreasonable to call this government absolute sick psychopaths?

If testing is a way to keep covid out of such places, it probably needs to be paid for like other supplies. I am actually quite skeptical that it is a useful thing at all given how many false negatives there are.

If you RTFT @MangyInseam you'll see PPs have been discussing the issue who pays for it (?) as once central funding goes for the LFT packs, it isn't "like other supplies" and would be significant cost. As more people visit the costs jump up and care homes /social care don't have spare budget of what will be a significant extra cost. It is difficult

Also your second point is well said. I had 4 days of symptoms and negative LFTs before my LFTs went positive. Quite clearly had covid all along and was infectious (but isolated anyway) before tested positive, my DC already were covid positive.

No one should visit a carehome if they feel unwell in any war, with covid or not, as flu , heavy colds, throat and other respiratory type viruses (not just covid), can spread rapidly and put lives at risk of the very vulnerable population in carehomes.

Whoops bold fail
" If testing is a way to keep covid out of such places, it probably needs to be paid for like other supplies. I am actually quite skeptical that it is a useful thing at all given how many false negatives there are. "
This bit was a quote from @MangyInseam

Should have stocked up when they were free, we did.

I have a requirement to test for work, the twice a week I go into the office. I volunteer with children so test before that. My sons are asked to test twice weekly for school. My husband is same situation as me.

So we will be spending around £1k a year of covid testing 🤦🤦

@Sparticuscaticus

If testing is a way to keep covid out of such places, it probably needs to be paid for like other supplies. I am actually quite skeptical that it is a useful thing at all given how many false negatives there are.

If you RTFT @MangyInseam you'll see PPs have been discussing the issue who pays for it (?) as once central funding goes for the LFT packs, it isn't "like other supplies" and would be significant cost. As more people visit the costs jump up and care homes /social care don't have spare budget of what will be a significant extra cost. It is difficult

Also your second point is well said. I had 4 days of symptoms and negative LFTs before my LFTs went positive. Quite clearly had covid all along and was infectious (but isolated anyway) before tested positive, my DC already were covid positive.

No one should visit a carehome if they feel unwell in any war, with covid or not, as flu , heavy colds, throat and other respiratory type viruses (not just covid), can spread rapidly and put lives at risk of the very vulnerable population in carehomes.

Yes, I understand the question of who pays, but I don't think that's a sustainable or fair option for the residents.

You are right of course that we need to be careful about bringing illness into such places. But there is also a need for realism. In many care homes, people are at the very end of their lives. In the class of places that takes (mainly) elderly people who cannot go out at all average time in these places is something like 18 months. That is not because they leave to live somewhere different. They are in the very end of life phase and what is most sure is that within a relatively short time they will die, very often of some kind of infection picked up here or there. The real cause however is that they are old and/or quite ill and their body can no longer fight of infection.

Yes, we could probably give them a few more weeks or months if we kept them completely isolated from the world. There are homes near me that did that for months, some near the beginning of covid had residents shut up in their rooms for weeks.

Is that an acceptable trade off? I don't think it is, really for any length of time. Without some perspective on quality of life and the value of being able to meet with people, we risk a lot more cruelty and lack of care, mostly because we ourselves are often very uncomfortable about the reality that everyone dies.

I live in a place where "assisted death" is legal. There were people in care homes, after the first big lockdown, who sought to avail themselves of that when it looked like we were going into a second lockdown where they would not be able to see any visitors for an unknown amount of time. Because you know, we needed to protect the vulnerable.

You don't want to pay for a test to see your mum because you think it's unfair. So your solution is to make everyone else pay for your tests....
It's not a compelling argument.

[quote Sparticuscaticus]@MrsBertBibby

Your reply is rude and unnecessary

My response to you was to explain where you had misunderstood or said something misleading (especially about RPR requirement, most involved relatives choose to visit their loved ones more than that requirement would be anyway).

Expecting care homes to continue to provide free LFTs for all visitors ongoing - when there's no longer a free NHS supply as the government says there's no longer the budget to continue to do that- will increase costs and fees to self funded residents /or on the very services that are already stretched if either social care or NHS has to fund it - you’re failing to understand the extra costs it would incur - that's simply factual and unavoidable.

You have no idea the extra costs NHS and social care are still struggling through and how many years it’ll take to even slightly bounce back to our usual state of underfundedness.

It’s sad that people are quick to complain rather than appreciate at least U.K. did fund LFTs for a lm incredibly long period, where other nations
(even many of our European neighbours), did not. Yet most had the same testing requirements. Are you calling all those nations “sick psychopaths”? That’s so perjorative and entitled.

So of course you can campaign for continued free LFTs for visitors to carehomes and should do. But essentially you are asking for national tax increases. And the route to do that is to contact your MP to ask them to raise it in parliament.

I don’t disagree as I’d also rather LFT to carehome visitors were supplies free, but can see how costly that would be and I understand that would mean my taxes have to go up.

PPs have repeatedly suggested that you order a few postal packs whilst you can over the next months OP. That sounds like it will help in your situation at least for a bit.

[/quote]
You were quite snippy to the OP and you may have said you corrected her but you, too, made an ambiguous statement. The Liberty Protection Safeguards are not yet in force. They’re not relevant yet. The assessors are not even qualified! However, when they are, there will be expected more involvement from families/friends/carers.

@Schuyler
You really should have read the part I replied to before you commented
* "The Liberty Protection Safeguards are not yet in force. They’re not relevant yet.* "

It was OP that wrote "LPS", I wrote "LPS/DOLs" in response to flag that up. RPR is a DOLs term which is the current legislative framework and I talk purely about RPR. You are trying mistakenly to "correct" something that was already accurate, didn't need correcting and was to the wrong poster!!

You can't argue your second point re LPS Rep visiting as it is not legislation yet and is unknown.

No one was snippy, OP was rude and unnecessary in her replies to many people, OP is started with calling the government "sick psychopaths" (!!) but I "feel snippy now" as a little bit of knowledge has been misused in your post. I've no interest in debating this point re RPR visiting as it is irrelevant and was a misdirection by OP all along.

(I meant LPS has not been implemented yet)

YABU. If you have a problem with it, perhaps look after her at home?

No? Then you'll have to abide by the home rules.

@Sweetpea1532

US here...still waiting for free tests that Biden promised every household in December.... Testing here was very difficult...the testing facilities were closed and tests at the pharmacy were all sold out or exorbitantly priced...no wonder our numbers skyrocketed...our numbers are rising again

We got ours a few days ago. NE US.

Most people literally go in there to wait to die

That's a facile interpretation. Many people in care homes are in fact young, and many among those who are distinctly old are still living enjoyable and productive lives, whilst having their potential physical needs in mind.

I think it often stems from a childish inability to deal with death and grief

I think it stems from basic human understanding, and normal levels of empathy. I think most people of whatever age would prefer not to die of suffocation, needlessly.

@milkyaqua

Most people literally go in there to wait to die

That's a facile interpretation. Many people in care homes are in fact young, and many among those who are distinctly old are still living enjoyable and productive lives, whilst having their potential physical needs in mind.

I think it often stems from a childish inability to deal with death and grief

I think it stems from basic human understanding, and normal levels of empathy. I think most people of whatever age would prefer not to die of suffocation, needlessly.

What does "needlessly" really mean in this context?

Does it mean we can't let these young people in care homes go out into the population at large, for example? Because testing people every time they come to visit is pretty useless if the residents themselves are going on outings in public or to people's homes.

What % of people well enough to go out like this would be willing to forgo it, permanently, to avoid covid? Especially since, being young, they may not actually be all that vulnerable? Are they going to be obliged to give up their activities in order to avoid bringing anything into the care home to others? Their quality of life to protect those who are more fragile from death (not that their QOL will be great either.)

The tests in the case of visitors, and presumably staff too, are being used on asymptomatic people. They might pick up two thirds of cases. So will they really be able to keep covid out? It only needs to get in once to go around.

Many eople in care already suffer deeply from loneliness and neglect. They need as many visits as they can get. Doing anything that risks or supresses that is unacceptable. So there needs to be some questions asked about whether the tests are really worth spending the money in terms of the protections they will give, and if they are, how they will be paid for so no one receives fewer visits than they would otherwise.

What does "needlessly" really mean in this context?

In this context, it means that most people would rather not suffocate to death. YMMV.

@milkyaqua

What does "needlessly" really mean in this context?

In this context, it means that most people would rather not suffocate to death. YMMV.

Yes, but at the expense of their quality of life? Being alive is not worth much on its own if you can't enjoy companionship, human interaction, external stimuli.

We are all waiting to die. And living in the meantime.

@lightisnotwhite

What are we keeping them safe from? If the 95 year old Queen can get Covid with priceless security it all seems a bit redundant really.

I agree. I think it's no longer a case of "keeping people safe" because the danger has (for the time being, at least) mostly passed, but more likely to be a case of the care home managers having developed a (perfectly understandable) fear of Covid and being overly cautious in their application of infection prevention measures. It is very sad that people whose homes happen to be within a care home facility are still so locked down and restricted. They and hospital in-patients are the only people in the country who are deprived of contact and companionship from their families and friends - and they, of all people, are surely the ones most in need of it.

Can't see that anyone has shared this yet - boots will be selling LFTs shortly at £10 for 5 tests. Not bad, considering the price they charge fot pregnancy tests!

www.boots.com/flowflex-antigen-rapid-testing-self-testing-kit-5-tests-10312496

This whole thread seems to assume that people in care homes are all elderly and "in gods waiting room"
Many in residential care are young and have complex health needs and learning disabilities and seem to have been utterly forgotten.

Care homes need to cover the costs of LFTs because having visitors is an essential part of providing care. Just like they provide visitor PPE, visiting rooms and tea/biscuits for visitors.

So you have to test for covid, but could go unaware just as you're starting with flu, or similar? At this stage I do wonder why we still test for covid in particular, when our household has been pretty unwell recently with run of the mill coughs and viruses (none of which were covid).

I imagine you are already shelling out thousand a week in care home fees. In which case a few ££ on a test won't make much difference.

Alternatively her care is all Government funded and all you have to contribute is a small amount for a test

Whole families (2+ children often) all taking tests daily for months on end for no real reason is part of the reason. I'm aware of several who were doing that.

@Brieandcamembert

I imagine you are already shelling out thousand a week in care home fees. In which case a few ££ on a test won't make much difference.

Alternatively her care is all Government funded and all you have to contribute is a small amount for a test

Or alternatively her care is being funded by the sale of her property or there is a charge against it.

@Hobnobswantshernameback

This whole thread seems to assume that people in care homes are all elderly and "in gods waiting room" Many in residential care are young and have complex health needs and learning disabilities and seem to have been utterly forgotten.

Yes quite. My adult DC (in their twenties) lives in a care home