AIBU with my 13 year old daughter?

[GeekyGirl42]

Had to work late one evening this week and daughter said she wanted this evening. So I worked whilst she got on with her evening (I WFH). She had a shower, and came to say goodnight.

I finised work around midnight; when that happens I like to unwind in the shower... Except this evening after 30s it went freezing cold. I squealed. My daughter came out of her room and shouted at me for waking her up.

I told her (this is not the first time by any means that this has happened) that she must remember to think about whether she's used the hot water up, because I don't mind as long as I know to put it on again. It is ridiculous that this would be necessary, as is just the two of us and the tank is massive.

She went bonkers.... Threw stuff around the room and shouted at me. I told her that if she was going to keep arguing with me about whether she should have been more mindful about the hot water, then she can choose between taking another shower now or loosing her phone for a day.

She went to take another shower and when she realised how cold it was she said she couldn't do it. So I told her to be more thoughtful next time, and that tomorrow she will have to have her shower at the gym after her tennis lesson.

She went nuts. She hates me and wants to live with her Dad. I've sent her a text saying that I am hurt by her unkind words and that there are consequences for saying things like that to people... In this instance, she'll find that I've taken back half of this week's allowance.

AIBU? I am so sick of the shower being cold. And she's been really horrid the last few days... I feel like she's walking all over me

Her behaviour was bad but you also acted like a teenager. This should have all been dealt with in the morning also this:
“I flipped and told her to take a shower in it or loose phone for 24 hours.”
Is really bad

YABU

It sounds like the argument wasn't really to do with the shower but more that that's the thing that tipped you both you're both stressed.

When I was a teenager it was just my Mum and I living together too. Any punishments like 'Do X or you don't get your phone' neeeever worked. All they did was make me more stressed and more frustrated with her. And did you say somewhere it was a 30 minutes shower? That sounds like a normal washing hair shower to me.

As PPs have said, I think you should have taken control of the situation and said late at night wasn't the time to talk about it, and you should both go to sleep and talk about it again in the morning, or later the next day when you'd both had time to calm down. She's only 13, not 18. I think you should be the adult in the situation.

I can see why you lost it
And my 13yo Dd can be challenging too and rude.
But I don’t think it’s a good idea to get into an confrontation at midnight. Better to talk about it the next morning and impose consequences then if you think that’s reasonable.

I also was shocked that you forced her to choose between losing her phone for a day (presumably end of the world for a 13yo already missing her friends) and attempting to take a cold shower at midnight. She was backed into a corner.

She also shouldn’t have thrown stuff around and been rude to you. But it’s not the time of night for those arguments.

My granddad used to say any arguing past ten o’clock can always wait until the morning.

I think you both reacted in the heat of the moment.

You were pissed off (rightly so) and offered a potential punishment to be take a cold shower - never ok.

She was pissed off, frustrated and overly tired over her friends and lost it when she was called out about the shower and (wrongly) reacted by throwing shower bottles.

You should have sent her back to bed and dealt with it in the morning. However, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Today is a new day.

Reiterate about the hot water and simply say next time it happens the next day you’ll take her phone. She can stick up a note in the bathroom or her bedroom, you can remind her etc. Or every time she showers, just stick the hot water on for ten minutes. Would showering before her be an option?

I don’t think showering is the issue, you’re frustrated you’re the only one in the trenches and it’s thankless and she’s frustrated her dad is nowhere to be seen and it’s impacting her social life when she does get to see him.

You’re doing the best you can, teenage years are turbulent enough without screaming matches over water. Put it on yourself or stop with reactionary punishments.

You’ll take her phone three times and suddenly she’ll remember. She was instantly defensive because she knew she was in trouble. I would be more pissed off with the shower gel throwing but again - it can wait until morning when everyone has calmed down.

I think the posters saying you’re abusive are ridiculous. You’re not abusive, you’re a tired and frustrated mum at the end of your tether who reacted defensively of ‘you try it!’

I feel your pain but most teens are selfish and thoughtless at least some of the time. Something to do with their brains. Natural consequences work best - waking her with a shriek when the cold water hit you kind of counts but more effective would have been to quietly have a bath with water from the kettle and let her be the one to discover the shower was cold when she got in it the next morning. I think docking her allowance is a step too far - it's not an appropriate punishment for losing her temper and saying hurtful things in the heat of the moment - but you could work out the cost of heating 1 tank of water and tell her you'll dock it by that much every time she does this and you have to heat a second tank of water in one day.

“How dare you wake me up?” Sounds similar to “how dare you use all the hot water and not tell me?” Model the behaviour you want your daughter to use. If you want her to grow up to be be kind and considerate, be that. Check the hot water yourself an hour before you need it. Be quiet in the evening. Stop punishing her (it won’t help change your daughter’s behaviour, it will just make her resent you and make everyone’s life harder). If you want her to grow up to be argumentative and punitive then keep modelling that.

AlexaShutUp is completely right. Harsh punishments are used for one purpose only: to force compliance. You may, perhaps, get obedience on the occasion out of term, but there's a good chance you won't. And if you do, it'll be reluctant and angry and you've just set yourself up for more trouble later because you've effectively made the child hate you.

I know none of us are perfect, but the best thing we can do is model the behaviour we want (including apologising and trying to make good when we fuck up, as humans inevitably will). Then it becomes a team effort about learning to live together and respect each other and check ourselves, not Parent Enforcing Rules Upon Teen With Absolute Authority And Last Word. That's combative and adversarial; everything you're supposed to be trying to avoid.

The argument is rarely about what the argument is about. They don't exist in vacuums.

She did the typical teenage "I want to live with the other parent" so you took her pocket money away? So she can only have it if she says she loves you the mostest? It's literally like you're paying her to pick you.

The cold shower, screaming etc isn't great, you were both tired and over reacted. You apologise, you show her how to apologise and you move on.

But the taking your money because you were mean to me was a calm and rational decision and u think its actually much worse

@Bouledeneige

Put the hot water in before your shower. Try not to wake up a teenage at midnight on a school night. And don't have a shouty roe afterwards. And don't impose sanctions for such minor issues. Pick your battles.

@Bouledeneige You don’t think that throwing a massive tantrum and throwing things around possibly breaking them in the process is behaviour worthy of sanction? Wow

@SpidersAreShitheads

Alternative perspective:

"Mum was working tonight so I spent evening doing my own thing, had a shower and went to bed. Just as I was dozing off, Mum screamed in the shower and it nearly gave me a heart attack! I woke up in a right panic and wondered what the hell was going on, until I realised that Mum was having one of her tempers again about the shower. She’s always having showers late and banging around in the bathroom when I’m trying to sleep. When I’ve got school the next day, it’s really disruptive.

I was a bit grumpy but when I went in the bathroom she moaned at me again about not telling her to put the hot water back on. But I really don’t think I took a long shower, so I’m not really sure when the hot water needs to go back on or not? It didn’t feel like a long shower to me, and mum is always saying there’s enough hot water for four people to shower so I don’t really know why the shower went cold so quickly for her.

I tried to argue my point but mum was really annoyed, and in the end she said that because I answered her back, I either had to have a freezing cold shower now or lose my phone for a day. Obviously I chose the shower. However, it was so cold I couldn’t stand it and had to get back out again. It seemed like a really mean punishment and way OTT. Who makes their child stand in a freezing cold shower as a punishment anyway?

Mum was very patronising at this point and then told me that I couldn’t have a shower in my own home tomorrow! Apparently I now have to shower at the gym! How is that even fair - it’s my home too?!

I’ve had enough of her moaning and her moods so I told her that I want to live with dad. I thought that might make her realise how unhappy all of this is making me, but in typical mum style, all that did was prompt a text making it all about her, as per usual. She won’t talk to me about how I’m feeling or why I want to live with dad, and instead is just docking me half my pocket money.

I shouldn’t have reacted the way I did but she is literally punishing me for expressing my feelings. Apparently telling her that I’m unhappy living with her “has consequences”.

I’m so fed up and she won’t even take me seriously. I’m going to talk to dad as soon as I can. "

You knew she'd had a shower. You say she keeps using all the hot water - but chose not to put it back on for a blast to make sure there was enough for you. That's on you.

She was moody but you handled it badly, and now you're docking her pocket money because she said she wants to live with her dad. Childish and spiteful. You're not coming out of this well at all.

She's only 13. Unless you learn how to communicate better, these are going to be long and painful teen years for you both.

Yep, this. Not surprised if she really does want to live with her dad. Unbelievable that you would make her get into a freezing cold shower at that time of night. As a pp has said This could be classed as abuse. Then you dock her pocket money for saying that she wants to live with her dad ? You need to grow up, behave like a reasonable parent, not a childish, spiteful child. If you can't or won't consider your actions then if she she stays with you you could eventually end up without her.

It keep changes from having to have the shower to just turning it on and popping hand in.. but from ops own post Shower over bath - she stepped in, turned it on very briefly from the other end of the bath, and said it was too cold and she couldn't do it. If DD did 'step in' to the shower I doubt she did that fully clothed, so basically the expectation to have the shower was there.

@TheOccupier

I feel your pain but most teens are selfish and thoughtless at least some of the time. Something to do with their brains. Natural consequences work best - waking her with a shriek when the cold water hit you kind of counts but more effective would have been to quietly have a bath with water from the kettle and let her be the one to discover the shower was cold when she got in it the next morning. I think docking her allowance is a step too far - it's not an appropriate punishment for losing her temper and saying hurtful things in the heat of the moment - but you could work out the cost of heating 1 tank of water and tell her you'll dock it by that much every time she does this and you have to heat a second tank of water in one day.

Definitely this. Consequences are supposed to be natural and relating to 'the crime'. But they can be predetermined, too, and still be fair. So say for example, she doesn't clean her room for a week, then her pocket money gets docked - but only if that was agreed upon beforehand that she gets money for cleaning her room, and it wasn't her entire pocket money. The natural consequence might be that her room stinks and she has no clean clothes, and less money to go out with. Punishments that are picked out of thin air and having nothing to do with the behaviour don't teach anything, they're just annoying and will wreck your relationship with your daughter.

Perhaps let her go to her dad. The natural consequence will be that she doesn't see her friends very much, or at all.

I feel for your neighbours with all this going on past midnight.

This sounds exactly like me and my daughter. It’s awful. Loads of screaming. Loads of blaming and unhappiness. Last night was terrible for us too.
I hope things can get better.
It’s about feeling like you are unimportant and uncared for. I have no advice because we are in the same mess in my house.

Not only are you unreasonable for taking a shower at midnight and waking her up, but to make her take a cold shower to prove a point is cruel and immature. Who is the child here?

@Cissyandflora

This sounds exactly like me and my daughter. It’s awful. Loads of screaming. Loads of blaming and unhappiness. Last night was terrible for us too. I hope things can get better. It’s about feeling like you are unimportant and uncared for. I have no advice because we are in the same mess in my house.

Whatever the solution is, you need to take the first step. You're the adult. It's not your daughter's job to make you feel cared for.

@SpidersAreShitheads you just described exactly my mother when i was a teen. She still is like that so i keep her at a distance now

Yabu.

Yabu to get in the shower without first checking the temperature with your hand.

Yabu to shout so loudly you wake up a child at midnight.

Yabu to think of ridiculous unrelated and over-harsh punishments like demanding she take a cold shower, taking her phone, or her allowance etc. Obviously she shouldn’t have thrown things but she is the child and you sre the adult… I can see that you’re trying to find ways to handle her behaviour, but she’s actually probably inherited her over-the-top unreasonableness from you!

You need to act more like the adult and find ways to calm things down and de-escalate situations. Handing out random punishments isn’t working. Have a google about good ways to deal with teens.

I flipped and told her to take a shower in it or loose phone for 24 hours.

You told her to take a freezing cold shower, at midnight, as a punishment? That’s borderline abusive.

You are the parent, you knew you were working and would (inexplicably) want to shower at midnight. You could have put the heater on at 11.30.

My daughter has form for long showers, but we know this and make sure the water is on. It really isn’t that difficult.

She had been working for 16 hours and lives in the sodding house. If she wants a shower that's fine. The DD has said she was awake anyway. Don't we tell people on here not to creep about in silence with young kids so that they get used to noise? Assuming the OP wasn't slamming doors, turning on the radio and deliberately being noisy, the shower is fine. The shriek was involuntary and a result of something the DD did.

@Tilltheend99

Your 13 year olds normal teenage tantrum sounds trying but instead of teaching her that shouting, throwing things, and using all the hot water is wrong you did something really abusive.

It is abusive to force a child to take a cold shower. (Like something out of a prison movie ) And you ‘flipped’ too. How can she learn from your example?!

UABU

I agree in parts with this

I wouldn’t have this tantrum shit at all, and I would be very firm on it. My teen wouldn’t ever do this, but he’s not a girl, it’s different, he huffs but stays quiet and we talk about things.

The choices over the shower/phone or not being rude was ridiculous

It solves nothing at all

I think a timer on the phone would be good, but as others have said, water was still hot when she got out.

You are right to keep insisting that your DD is more considerate, eg she thinks about the water consumption, whether the heating needs to go back on. You are quite right to keep raising this, and point out to her the consequences if she doesn't think - ie her Mum who has been working all day is left with only cold water.

OTOH while continuing to plug away at this, she is 13 and it is not easy for her to be thoughtful and considerate. You must make some allowances for her.

Forcing her to go in a cold shower was not on - it is tit for tat and stepping down from the "firm but thoughtful" parent role into something more like a punitive dictator. You won't get anywhere with her by being like that.

I think the issue is you see this as a power struggle, like she is doing this on purpose to get one over you and assert herself and her wish to do just as she likes with no thought for you. In response, you assert your own greater power, and force her into a cold shower on pain of losing her phone or whatever. But it is a road to nowhere - or rather just to loads more conflict, distrust and misery.

Instead - infuriating as I know it must be, could you see it as a developmental gap between you? She is 13 and she is still working towards being able to be considerate in this way. You are right to keep reminding her but she can't do it fully just yet and she needs your help to become a considerate housemate.

YABU
Your DD is 13 but it comes across as you’re treating her like a partner instead of a child.

You didn’t need a shower at midnight and you could have ran the tap to see if the water was cold.

She probably didn’t tell you she used all of the cold water as she knew you wouldn’t finish until midnight so would just have a shower in the morning.

Honestly it isn’t normal to be having arguments with a 13 year old at midnight (poor neighbours) and you have been extremely dramatic (screaming, telling her to go in it, taking away her phone). You’re acting like she’s in the wrong for throwing things about but you absolutely acted worse than her and you’re an adult.
You can’t expect a 13 year old to act like an adult.

I think you need to take a step back and examine your parenting (like we all should) and think about her age and how you can use punishments to fit the crime. Maybe if this keeps happening you say you’re going to take a shower first tomorrow.

OP, I think you've had a really hard time on here. I can totally understand your reaction. OK, maybe there was a better way of handling it but honestly it feels like mums in particular are just expected to suck up everything that everyone throws at them and never complain, just accept that their needs will continually be ignored and be endlessly patient about everything. Fuck that. You are how your kids learn about how people behave and react to things, if you are always perfect and never react like a normal human she will just grow up expecting everyone to be totally accommodating to her.

However, it's also also ok to acknowledge that you could have reacted differently so maybe another conversation now that things are calmer in which you say, look, I know you didn't mean to leave me without hot water but I was knackered and it really annoyed me and please can you make more of an effort in future to think about other people's needs.

I have a teenage and an almost teenage DD and it is bloody hard to get them to take other people's needs into consideration. I've tried so many different approaches and sometimes I do just get quite shouty about it - obviously not ideal but parents are only human. Good luck.

She's not deliberately leaving you with no hot water so there is nothing to be gained from shouting at her.
You keep saying it's a giant water tank with enough water for four people but at the same time you're regularly running out of hot water. It doesn't matter how big the tank is if the reality is that the hot water runs out easily. It's on you - as the parent and as the person who wants hot water late at night - to put the hot water on in time.
I don't know about where you live but the weather here has been freezing. That impacts on the temperature of our pipes and hot water. If your house is the same then it's entirely possible that the water is hot when DD uses it and that it isn't hot a few hours later as the temperature drops during the night.