AIBU with my 13 year old daughter?

[GeekyGirl42]

Had to work late one evening this week and daughter said she wanted this evening. So I worked whilst she got on with her evening (I WFH). She had a shower, and came to say goodnight.

I finised work around midnight; when that happens I like to unwind in the shower... Except this evening after 30s it went freezing cold. I squealed. My daughter came out of her room and shouted at me for waking her up.

I told her (this is not the first time by any means that this has happened) that she must remember to think about whether she's used the hot water up, because I don't mind as long as I know to put it on again. It is ridiculous that this would be necessary, as is just the two of us and the tank is massive.

She went bonkers.... Threw stuff around the room and shouted at me. I told her that if she was going to keep arguing with me about whether she should have been more mindful about the hot water, then she can choose between taking another shower now or loosing her phone for a day.

She went to take another shower and when she realised how cold it was she said she couldn't do it. So I told her to be more thoughtful next time, and that tomorrow she will have to have her shower at the gym after her tennis lesson.

She went nuts. She hates me and wants to live with her Dad. I've sent her a text saying that I am hurt by her unkind words and that there are consequences for saying things like that to people... In this instance, she'll find that I've taken back half of this week's allowance.

AIBU? I am so sick of the shower being cold. And she's been really horrid the last few days... I feel like she's walking all over me

I flipped and told her to take a shower in it or loose phone for 24 hours.

Do you mean you woke her up, then dared her to take a cold shower or you would take her phone?

Teenagers can be difficult and you are right to tell her to think about others, but what you did does not sound right.

if i were OP today I'd be speaking to my DD this evening about respect and living together. Again.
(I don't think summarily docking pocket money is a good idea)
I think it is a good idea to revisit the relationships you have with your kids at different ages. Turning 13 is a good time, you can start giving them a bit more responsibility and work towards bringing up an adult who doesn't behave like a selfish arse because they know no different.

Each family needs to have their own way. Compliant teenagers are IME rare but they do exist. But we learn societal rules by living with other people and having conversations/dialogue about what and isn't acceptable.

For OP I'd be working towards an agreement about when and how long showers are. and about either switching on the water heater automatically, or having shorter showers (preferably both). My DC have really quick showers because they are worried about the environment. We all do, tbh. (that and metered water)

I'd also be working out a suitable scale of punishments - so that it is very clear that taking all the hot water resulted in whatever they agree on. And having age-appropriate household responsibilities such as taking it in turns to take out the rubbish, put out the bins, bring in the bins, hanging up washing etc.

And working out a different schedule of visits with the father so that he doesn't get all the holidays which seems unfair for sevearal reasons.

And again for those who didn't read the posts:

1. DD didn't have a cold shower, she actually chose that as the lesser of two evils then didn't get in because it was too cold b) DD wasn't asleep iii) she doesn't actually like being at her dad's for too long because it's a long way from her friends which is apparently the actual reason she threw a tantrum

Also. You say you’ve taken back half of this weeks allowance?

So you’ve given it to her and removed it after the fact?

No discussion of “you can only have a shower of x minutes. Every minute over costs y pence and that will be deducted from your allowance”?

"OP, I mean this kindly, but you are going to have a really tough time through these teenage years if you don't learn to communicate more effectively with your dd. Good parenting is not just about rigid boundaries and imposing consequences, which seems to be your main focus."

This is spot on.

We purchased an electric shower because of this as mine are prone to leaving shower running 🙄

With teens, I think you do need to model emotional regulation, ie. show them what a calm discussion looks like.

Also don't just tell her what to do - give her the chance to identify solutions with you. Eg. my teen is very good about using the timer on her phone (for cooking rather than showers). If she feels some ownership, she's more likely to do it.

Make it joint problem-solving instead of an emotional battle.

In my limited experience (I have one teen), you can have more success with "I could do with your help/I'd appreciate your ideas about this" rather than "Just do what I tell you!".

I don't think you've done anything wrong OP. Your DD sounds very disrespectful. I would never have got away with throwing shower gel bottles at my mum! She isn't a toddler and is old enough to understand that is no acceptable. I think you would be doing her a disservice to allow her to grow up with so little thought for other people's needs. At 13 I was cooking family dinners, doing chores and babysitting my younger sisters. She needs a reality check if her biggest responsibility is ensuring you have enough hot water for your shower after she has had hers.

@SpidersAreShitheads

Alternative perspective:

"Mum was working tonight so I spent evening doing my own thing, had a shower and went to bed. Just as I was dozing off, Mum screamed in the shower and it nearly gave me a heart attack! I woke up in a right panic and wondered what the hell was going on, until I realised that Mum was having one of her tempers again about the shower. She’s always having showers late and banging around in the bathroom when I’m trying to sleep. When I’ve got school the next day, it’s really disruptive.

I was a bit grumpy but when I went in the bathroom she moaned at me again about not telling her to put the hot water back on. But I really don’t think I took a long shower, so I’m not really sure when the hot water needs to go back on or not? It didn’t feel like a long shower to me, and mum is always saying there’s enough hot water for four people to shower so I don’t really know why the shower went cold so quickly for her.

I tried to argue my point but mum was really annoyed, and in the end she said that because I answered her back, I either had to have a freezing cold shower now or lose my phone for a day. Obviously I chose the shower. However, it was so cold I couldn’t stand it and had to get back out again. It seemed like a really mean punishment and way OTT. Who makes their child stand in a freezing cold shower as a punishment anyway?

Mum was very patronising at this point and then told me that I couldn’t have a shower in my own home tomorrow! Apparently I now have to shower at the gym! How is that even fair - it’s my home too?!

I’ve had enough of her moaning and her moods so I told her that I want to live with dad. I thought that might make her realise how unhappy all of this is making me, but in typical mum style, all that did was prompt a text making it all about her, as per usual. She won’t talk to me about how I’m feeling or why I want to live with dad, and instead is just docking me half my pocket money.

I shouldn’t have reacted the way I did but she is literally punishing me for expressing my feelings. Apparently telling her that I’m unhappy living with her “has consequences”.

I’m so fed up and she won’t even take me seriously. I’m going to talk to dad as soon as I can. "

You knew she'd had a shower. You say she keeps using all the hot water - but chose not to put it back on for a blast to make sure there was enough for you. That's on you.

She was moody but you handled it badly, and now you're docking her pocket money because she said she wants to live with her dad. Childish and spiteful. You're not coming out of this well at all.

She's only 13. Unless you learn how to communicate better, these are going to be long and painful teen years for you both.

Very well put. 🙌

@SpidersAreShitheads

Alternative perspective:

"Mum was working tonight so I spent evening doing my own thing, had a shower and went to bed. Just as I was dozing off, Mum screamed in the shower and it nearly gave me a heart attack! I woke up in a right panic and wondered what the hell was going on, until I realised that Mum was having one of her tempers again about the shower. She’s always having showers late and banging around in the bathroom when I’m trying to sleep. When I’ve got school the next day, it’s really disruptive.

I was a bit grumpy but when I went in the bathroom she moaned at me again about not telling her to put the hot water back on. But I really don’t think I took a long shower, so I’m not really sure when the hot water needs to go back on or not? It didn’t feel like a long shower to me, and mum is always saying there’s enough hot water for four people to shower so I don’t really know why the shower went cold so quickly for her.

I tried to argue my point but mum was really annoyed, and in the end she said that because I answered her back, I either had to have a freezing cold shower now or lose my phone for a day. Obviously I chose the shower. However, it was so cold I couldn’t stand it and had to get back out again. It seemed like a really mean punishment and way OTT. Who makes their child stand in a freezing cold shower as a punishment anyway?

Mum was very patronising at this point and then told me that I couldn’t have a shower in my own home tomorrow! Apparently I now have to shower at the gym! How is that even fair - it’s my home too?!

I’ve had enough of her moaning and her moods so I told her that I want to live with dad. I thought that might make her realise how unhappy all of this is making me, but in typical mum style, all that did was prompt a text making it all about her, as per usual. She won’t talk to me about how I’m feeling or why I want to live with dad, and instead is just docking me half my pocket money.

I shouldn’t have reacted the way I did but she is literally punishing me for expressing my feelings. Apparently telling her that I’m unhappy living with her “has consequences”.

I’m so fed up and she won’t even take me seriously. I’m going to talk to dad as soon as I can. "

You knew she'd had a shower. You say she keeps using all the hot water - but chose not to put it back on for a blast to make sure there was enough for you. That's on you.

She was moody but you handled it badly, and now you're docking her pocket money because she said she wants to live with her dad. Childish and spiteful. You're not coming out of this well at all.

She's only 13. Unless you learn how to communicate better, these are going to be long and painful teen years for you both.

This !!

@GeekyGirl42

Really? It's OK to stand for 30 minutes under a steaming hot shower until it runs cold, and leave it cold for the next person, and do that repeatedly after being told so many times (I have lost count how often I have had that conversation) this is not ok?

And after 16 hours work, needing a quick wind down before bed, a cold shower is really quite unpleasant.

No, that is not ok, OP.

Teenagers can be bloody selfish. My youngest is still that way inclined, and is nearly 18. Using all the hot water is among the things that piss me off on a regular basis. She ranted on at me for "hurting her feelings" yesterday because I asked her to clean the bath after she had used it while covered in fake tan.

Some teenagers are also more impervious to repeated requests than others.

1) DD didn't have a cold shower, she actually chose that as the lesser of two evils then didn't get in because it was too cold

But it was that or lose her phone. That’s not a fair punishment or choice.
If OP had said food or phone her DD would have chosen to keep the phone but it wouldn’t be a fair choice, just like this wasn’t.

Teens are hard OP as we all know. They want to be treated like adults but are still children.

I agree with the PP that you have to model good behaviour - she acted dramatically because you acted dramatically.

You have to remember that you’re an adult and she’s a child so you are more mature but also she’s becoming a teenager so her hormones are all over the place so it’s harder for her to control her emotions.

It’s easier said than done and no one on here is a perfect parent.
It’s just a lot easier giving parental advice from the outside as it’s harder once you’re in the middle of it.
I can guarantee you could give me lots of good parenting advice too.

I would definitely look at dad having her more regularly for shorter periods as this is why she’s feeling so upset and taking it out on you.
She needs to know you love and support her right now no matter how difficult she’s being.

Fuuuuuuuuuck!!!
Mum worked 16hr day.
Place of work is irrelevant. It’s a long fucking day for anyone.
Got in shower at midnight and it went cold.
Mum made a noise. (Who wouldn’t?)
Kid came into the bathroom.
*Nobody has asked about this bit, and as I have three teenagers who also take hundred year showers, I can see that this might be an important point… Why did she?

13 year old kid WHO IS AWAKE AT MIDNIGHT and angry and upset at the world because of things happening in both of their lives uses this noise as an excuse to storm in and unload. (This is what teenagers do.)
13 year old has massive emotional outburst. Instead of admitting that she is angry and upset at everything going on in her life, she blamed the noise her mother made for “waking her up.” (Which she admits later was not true as she was already awake.)
Mum (who is knackered and freezing) is angry about the water being cold, and then also about the behaviour so attempts to reign teen in and demand accountability by offering two choices… 1) Loss of phone or 2) (undoubtedly said in sarcastic voice… we’ve all done it.) That kid could get in the shower and see how she likes it.

**Nobody forced the kid into the shower. She stood there and said it was too cold so she wouldn’t do it.

Kid - who does not want to lose her phone -throws a tantrum of epic proportion and throws the most hurtful threat that she can think of at her mother… That she wants to live with her Dad.

Mum sends a text explaining that she has found this hurtful, and that there will be consequences for her behaviour.

Later, Mum and Daughter discuss what happened and daughter admits that she was awake and already upset. Mum discovers that daughter is missing her father since the recent separation, and finds the new custody arrangement difficult and stressful. Child resents the time between visits and the inability to see friends during breaks.

Mum and DD talked it out. Obviously this was made possible because Mum is DD’s safe person.

Mum is very sensitive and understanding about this. Mum is also working 16hr days, juggling her child’s needs, a mother with dementia and newly separated.

Glad everyone else is a perfect parent all the time. Your medals are in the mail.

I can't believe how many on here think that telling a 13 year old for using all of the hot water is wrong. OP i think your 13 year old needs to learn about respect and the only way she will learn is to make her earn her own money. Put a timer in the shower.

I don't think anyone reacts well or rationally at midnight, especially with all that going on.

I don't think I would rely on a 13 year old memory either. As the adult I'd consider myself on notice and change something either by boosting it if I knew she'd had a shower and I wanted one - doesn't need to delay you just pop it back on when you get a cuppa. Or by changing the times on the tank. Maybe heating for 1.5 hrs at 5pm, then and thee extra hour after her normal shower time. Problem solved.

Kind of feels like you're punishing her for having a shit memory. Many of us do, kids even more so. It's not on purpose.

Children have to learn that the world doesn't revolve around them the same way it did when they were toddlers.

The OP's daughter was being massively rude and downright aggressive and a tired mum lost it and chose to show her a direct consequence (i.e. try that cold shower for yourself). This is AFTER a number of calm discussions already had, reminders etc. How many women on here lose it with their partners etc. for much less?

FWIW, a 13-y.o. throwing shower gel around to "express her feelings" is tantamount to abuse, conscious or not, and for that alone she would have lost privileges with me.

OP, teens will say what they can to hurt you sometimes and get one over you. They will also calm down and appreciate a calm chat and hug after a big argument. That said, she needs to learn boundaries.

As for showers, I like the idea of a timer. Ask her to take her phone into the bathroom and set a timer for 10 and 15min, with the former being the warning. See whether she sticks to it. If she does, it is likely she just loses track of time under the shower (I did as a teen). If she doesn't, it comes from a place of arrogance and then you'll need to think of further consequences (you mention expense - you could work out how much her showers cost you and dock, say, half of that from her pocket money).

if i were OP today I'd be speaking to my DD this evening about respect and living together.

And you should be thinking about how that goes both ways.

I don't think you've done anything wrong OP.

Choosing to pick a fight with your thirteen year old at midnight then telling her to take a cold shower is ok with you?

Your DD sounds very disrespectful. I would never have got away with throwing shower gel bottles at my mum! She isn't a toddler and is old enough to understand that is no acceptable. I think you would be doing her a disservice to allow her to grow up with so little thought for other people's needs.

Someone wakes you at midnight then proceeds to blame you then have a go at you. How “respectful” are you? Now add in a bucketload of hormones, you”d calmly acquiesce and go back to bed?

At 13 I was cooking family dinners, doing chores and babysitting my younger sisters. She needs a reality check if her biggest responsibility is ensuring you have enough hot water for your shower after she has had hers.

Well done you. Have a 🏅. I had responsibilities at that age, but my mother never saw fit to yell at me in the middle of the night when I made mistakes.

But it was that or lose her phone. That’s not a fair punishment or choice.

i didn't say it was a good choice, from here i can chuckle, and OP has already said it was a stupid spur of the moment decision.

Having said that: DD did choose, and then didn't even get in the shower and still has her phone. In that respect, where's the problem? it was a stupid choice (OP), she took the idiot path (DD) and didn't even have the 'punishment'

In that respect win-win. What happened afterwards isn't good and they need to talk about it when they are both more relaxed.

Also not sure why pp think that constantly reminding 13 year olds to do things isn't fucking annoying. Giving them consequences works.

I wonder if we ask OP in 6 months how the hot showers are going, it will be a different story? (with other teenager-in-the-house issues of course)

FWIW, a 13-y.o. throwing shower gel around to "express her feelings" is tantamount to abuse, conscious or not, and for that alone she would have lost privileges with me.

It is likely learned behaviour.

OP, teens will say what they can to hurt you sometimes and get one over you. They will also calm down and appreciate a calm chat and hug after a big argument. That said, she needs to learn boundaries.

She needs to be taught how to deal with emotions. We teach that by mirroring. A 13 year old doesn’t get to the stage of throwing tantrums all alone.

Having said that: DD did choose, and then didn't even get in the shower and still has her phone. In that respect, where's the problem? it was a stupid choice (OP), she took the idiot path (DD) and didn't even have the 'punishment'

It was a stupid choice by the adult that the 13 year old probably felt quite powerless not to accept. As you say, it would be idiotic to do it. My 12 year old would certainly refuse. One would have to ask why this 13 year old didn’t and I suspect it wasn’t just idiocy.

Also not sure why pp think that constantly reminding 13 year olds to do things isn't fucking annoying. Giving them consequences works.

It is annoying, but so is 90% of parenting. Giving them appropriate consequences sometimes works. This clearly wasn’t appropriate and nor will it work.

As she got in the shower (but not under it) I assume your dd was naked as well as distressed? Its wrong to try to physically punish and humiliate your child.

BoredZelda the 13 year old was wakened by her mother, she was already awake

I think you both need to calm down.

At that age my daughter's standard response was "Sorry, I forgot". And as annoying as this is, it's perfectly normal. Their brain is literally too busy at this age.
You can either start to put the hot water back on after your DS had a shower or swap, so that you have a shower first.
Being rude to you needs to be addressed though. She needs to learn to treat you with some respect. The way it worked for us is when my kids started being mean I calmly told them to take a breather and rethink what they were going to say. Then I left the room. Usually they came to me a short time after and were able to express their feelings in a much calmer way.
As a rule in our house, pocket money was never used as means of punishment. They got a set amount each month. They didn't have to earn it and it wasn't taken away.
Good luck! It does get better!